G&G Firehawk low ROF

[Sitting Duck]

pics added to elaborate - sure you can work out which is which

soz for small pics but edited them to save space and then it didn't seem to work

[BrightCandle]

I think these gen 3 guns have a lot of problems frankly. The Rate of fire on my T4-18 is pretty rubbish, as is the shim job and I too have wax/glue in the motor screw making it all but impossible to remove the motor, and the height sounds wrong to me. I know people have said G&G guns are good but there are just too many of us with these latest guns having obvious problems, there is a serious quality control issue with these new guns.

 

My ROF is about 14 RPS, which is a little higher than the combat machine which did 13.5. This as far as I can tell is about normal for G&G guns.

[Ian_Gere]

Said it before and, no doubt, i'll say it again - there's no point preserving a warranty if you don't use it. That FH sounds tortured - send the poxy thing back. You shouldn't have to rip the guts out of a stock gun to stop it sounding like it's powered by cats being electrocuted...

[Oshia]

I'm afraid thats not an option as I've opened it to reshim, the spur gear was grinding slightly on the gearbox.
Now I'm not sure which to buy first.. 13:1 gears or a new high speed motor as this just has the standard G&G motor in.
I'm tempted to go for the gears first, what do you think?

[Sitting Duck]

go for gears n mosfet then the box is sorted & shimmed

 

might be alright after that for a while and not desperately need motor

after all - see the rof & fps improve and you might be sorted

The TT box might just have had a few tweaks and higher speed gears

and they could of dropped in the reg motor even in the TT FH

(got the paint on the TT FH so can't check motor used)

 

reckon gears n mosfet may give her some guts she deserves

[Oshia]

13:1 gears and braking mosfet ordered and also considering the G&P m120 high speed motor, has anyone used them? or got any pref on a better motor for the job?

[Ian_Gere]

You may be opening yourself up to a world of hurt fitting a high speed motor with high speed gears - by reputation I'd say that the G&P M120 motor will handle the additional torque required when using high speed gears, but the problems will come from how fast the GB then cycles. It will be very fast. Parts which I would expect to fail include the piston teeth and the cut off lever, but the tappet plate and its spring may also suffer. You definitely will have to fit a delayer to the sector gear, or BB's will not feed - I would use one of the funky shaped plastic ones because they create a wider cam than the circular brass type, which holds the tappet plate back slightly longer; they can also be fitted either way up which gives you a choice regarding the timing of the delay; and, of course, being plastic, they are easily reshaped if the timing needs to be tweaked (which it may very well need to be at such high cycle speeds).

 

Unless you have bought a MOSFET which controls ROF by variable resistance, as well as active breaking, I would stick with a pretty standard speed motor. I'll be interested to find out how well the G&G stock motor performs with the gears, specifically whether you get the kind of initial trigger response you expect compared to the new ROF, because I suspect that it may not be quite torque-y enough. An SHS high torque motor or ICS Turbo 3000 would be good choices if the stock one proves insufficient.

[Oshia]

I was thinking the same thing Ian so I canceled the high-speed motor for now, my gears arrived this morning, but I aren't gonna start shimming it until I have the mosfet (Airfet - active braking) installed.. I hope its here tomorrow so I can get started.
I'll stick to the standard motor and see what happens, its a noisy motor but then again its a noisy gun with the Sound Hog.

[Oshia]

Well, she now has the 13:1 gears and active braking mosfet in and shimmed properly, wired to deans, and after a lot of pissing about I'm finally happy with her.
The sound of the vid sounds nothing like the gun, the gearbox is quiet and the pop from the soundhog is nice,crisp and loud.
Hmm also stuck a sniper style M4 grip on there too, all I'm waiting for is the stubby stock which I hope is here soon as I won't get the buffer tube back on without desoldering the mosfet and I doubt I'd be able to cram all that crap in the crane stock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNMFbkQPc30

[Sitting Duck]

well she sounds quicker but vid sound & wobble is a shame

 

what battery you running in that atm - don't matter coz stubby

will let ya shove anything in with less messing about etc....

 

well done - see how she goes but she got some oomph in her now

[Oshia]

Yeah I noticed it was a little shakey and the lights crap in here, its much faster compared to the original vid, I'll see how it goes this sunday.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Just opened my std FH expecting to see same CM gbox as CM18.....

 

nope - first thing is FH has philip screws not allen key ones - no biggy

next thing FH has 8mm bearings in - CM18 had bushings - oohh might not be ideal for 30+ rof

another thing I noticed and would explain pi$$ poor rof.....

 

Torquey gear set ffs - reckon about 23:1 instead of usual 18:1 double bollox ffs

A very rough ballpark way to estimate ratio....

see how many turns of bevel gear it takes to do 1 full cycle

then multiply by 3......

 

in this case it is about 7.75 turns on bevel - 23.25 !!!!!

this does work out about right - 6.25 = 18.75

and just over 4 on a nutty 12:1 set of gears

 

So that has pi$$ed on my firehawk firework a bit

with 23:1 Vs the other 18:1 ratio I will be way off hit 31+ rof

instead be at 24 I think I have worked out even with fet & high speed motor

so the CM18 will have a higher rate of fire

 

Damn it - was expecting a quick install of spring silent head with proper matching cylinder head

whack a mosfet in there and be going nuts blowing peeps (and the life of the gbox too)

Not really got a quality steel 18:1 set to hand either so unsure what way to go now

might just shove a new spring & normal piston with better seal & leave rest stock

or spend weekend trying other crap & short stroke

 

Damn you G&G - even stuck 2 different G&G motors in there though think FH is a tad more oomphy

(little bit more resistance when turning motor by hand compared to CM18 motor)

 

Bloody hell - that is 4 things different on these 2 G&G's - only about £10-£15 difference but the box

is very differently put together - what was gonna be a couple of hours is now a couple of days if get parts

not a happy chappy ducky

 

but if the OP's gears were like mine - quite likely then that would deffo explain why latest FH's rof suck

[Ian_Gere]

You often see sets of Chinese 18:1 normal ratio gears on fleabay - JG & CYMA are both bomb proof.

 

Edit: oops posted that other stuff in the wrong place.

[Sitting Duck]

chucked in a cheapo alloy set 18:1

needed loads of shims but nice, done aoe on stock piston/cyl head etc....

(no fet yet - hey that rhymes)

put back the "powerful motor" G&G motor in there

connected up a 11.1v/12v and let rip......

 

Wow - that motor does seem a bit more grunt that stock 18000 G&G one

lets give her some abuse n see what for.....

oooooppppssss then cheapo gears didn't last long

think they just stripped - kicka$$ quality src gears

(this happened before pushing cheapo thin teeth alloy/tin gears so I know they are boned)

no tappet/nozzle movement - zzzzz yup sector not going - gears shagged

ahhh well didn't they last but 18:1 deffo better than 23:1

ordered 5 lots of SHS / A&K 18:1 from gunfire + a few other bits to get free shipping

(aprox £8 a set with a 11% discount code atm - that is my lot until new year (hopefully))

 

think I might change my avatar to Frank Spencer at this rate

 

2 motors I was on about

the standard is in Raider & CM18 (bushings & 18:1 gears - checked & Raider S is also 18:1)

the powerful shiny one was in the lame FireHawk with torque 23:1 gears & bearings etc....

 

So if OP's lame FH was like mine - shiny power motor, philip head screws 23:1 gears

then a change of gears & fet would see him right

unsure how brilliant bearings would be in ultra-whippy rps setup but yeah think if anybody

gets a new "lamer" FH - then all you need is say a 18:1 or 16:1 gear set in there chaps

(still pi$$ poor AOE & piston ring seal but most stock guns are like this and can fix when fitting gears)

 

[Oshia]

I have 13:1 in mine but its still not as rapid as my Masada, both are fetted(?) but I wish I didn't put the active braking in the Firehawk, the motor gets hot as buggery.

[Sitting Duck]

I think that so called powerful motor is more torque than speed tbh

(ran some weird fps/rof tests and was still struggling to hit 18/19 rof

m105 silent piston + proper silent head this time with AOE etc....

 

Also think G&G AR latch or the spring to be more exact is $hit

the spring wire is like a pube with no way as robust as SHS

my CM18 AR latch snapped and spring was shot - SHS AR = sweet

halfway through converting my lame FH and the AR is letting it over-run on 11.1v sometimes

got odd fps and just noticed the hop up tiny spring has disappeared yet don't remember taking tiny barrel out lately ???

Just notice the hop all flopping about & no spring - ahh that is why I getting 190fps then - damn it

is cool though dropped CM18 top receiver barrel on there and was shooting 350-355fps - phew

so yeah proper silent cyl head did make a difference it seems & may keep it as is

and put hi-speed cm box/lower receiver @ 330 in firehawk setup I guess

jeez there's guns n bits everywhere atm..

 

Blow me this techy stuff is about 75% grief 25% success or my usual 2 steps forward then 1 step backwards ffs

 

My fet died on me too but shs hi speed and 11-12v was giving her hell at 30+ rps

hopefully in next day or two can build my own 3034 and see if that melts

plus got a cheap fet coming that I will see how long that lasts before I melt it

 

but yeah that so called Powerful G&G motor - not much faster and if is maybe torquey - wtf put 23:1 gears with say stock spring in there

could of been fine with normal motor on 23:1 gears yet Raider has 18:1 + stock motor

Really don't make sense to me wtf G&G were doing on these other FH's

[Lozart]

 

 

but yeah that so called Powerful G&G motor - not much faster and if is maybe torquey - wtf put 23:1 gears with say stock spring in there

could of been fine with normal motor on 23:1 gears yet Raider has 18:1 + stock motor

Really don't make sense to me wtf G&G were doing on these other FH's

 

23:1 is more of a torque up ratio than a high speed ratio.

[Sitting Duck]

yeah but it don't seem to make sense to me....

 

330fps standard spring out of box, why put it 23:1 set when all others have 18:1

FireHawk was shown off as nutty rof - so why drop it back ?

or did they run out of 18's or had a few TopTech's come back so toned it down ???

 

don't think I will get to bottom as to why but it is deffo slower rof to TT FH and maybe even Raider

(don't quote me not done a like for like chrono test on same battery etc... but still weird to me)

[Oshia]

I was hugely disappointed with my FH out of the box, its just a Combat Machine and not this fantastic high speed wondergun I was led to believe.
Fucking marketing ploy and it worked, I will be sticking to Magpul; they are expensive but they are built properly.

I'll keep the FH for CQB but I might replace the braking fet for a non-braking because the motor is either gonna snuff it or worse; blow up in my hand.

[Sitting Duck]

well maybe keep a shs ar latch handy

and yeah we was mugged by G&G

still could of been worse many have have the higher mosfet guns blow up

so could of been worse - but deffo sneaky stunt to pull without telling us

[Oshia]

I contacted G&G and they just told me to send it back to my supplier.

[Sitting Duck]

ooooooooohhhhhhhh

 

it would be interesting to see or ask say LWA zero one etc

if we just got a duff stop-gap batch or are they all no longer TT FH's

(me thinks now they CM's as they in that price range)

 

£140 for TT box - hi rate of fire, plus them flip sights, VS02 stock & duck bill flash are close to that is parts

(should flogg my 2 x VS02 stocks as got stubby's on there to stay now)

 

but on G&G site they show plain grip like our lamer editions

or was whippy version mainly destined for other markets like US

but US have orange flash hiders - yukkk

 

I dunno how good my local cqb one is but they sell a fair few of these at £30 less than FH + 2tone free del etc....

 

http://www.tacticalairsoftshop.co.uk/ak-m4-cqb-1632-p.asp

 

yup not got loud bitch flash but that gets on ya nerves sometimes and trust me

made it very very easy to hunt down my son & his FH on Saturday

[Snowdrop]

I emailed G&g after reading this thread as I am quite interested in one. They didn't really answer my question other than to say there was a limited edition version - with the contoured grip, and the standard with the plain grip.

[Sitting Duck]

yup that figures on what most of us have thought...

get a really good one out for reviews even if they lose a bit in cost/manufacturing

then the first batch sells out like hot cakes around Easter time

Next batch arrives in July - some was still TopTech but most normal CM

(have both versions bought in summer from a couple of places)

 

Most peeps wouldn't notice 15 Vs 20 rof very much unless you compared side by side

 

May open the TT version in the new year as spring has lost a bit of punch (just under 300 now)

 

Still a nice sexy gun - everybody comments on her & that is before you fire the loud 8itch

Though it is a shame, the lamer CM18 can beat the TT version with a few upgrades but

sneaky G&G could of told us about this...

 

They said at launch they where gonna be releasing an even faster one by end of year

I think they did TT version for launch and decided to leave it at that coz

they got enough problems with TopTech's mosfet's failing they probably thought best not

 

It is still a nice gun even in its CM spec and high fps & rof is not be all & end all

(I'm still crap at airsoft no matter what gun I am packing)

 

Finally it is worth remembering that in "General" terms - I mean this as it says btw

A gun has a limited life of XXXX shots before fail/rebuild

So it is not untrue to say the more shots or faster you fire

The sooner your gun will reach the XXXX shots !!!!!

(yes higher spec guns should be built a bit better/last a bit longer but you get the idea)

Plus higher speed/juice pushed through can mean more heat/wear

 

Still lovely like I keep saying just not as quick as it was

perhaps G&G may want you to think it might last a little longer

(nah - they mugged us with the recent batches - G&G bastids)

[Sitting Duck]

ignore - I fitted wrong spring in there it seems

damn it