Hackett Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Does anyone know anything about this .. and whether its legit ..... more so whats written on its front page? http://www.britishairsoftclub.co.uk/ This BAC has been in communication with the Home Office and has taken independent advice to confirm that the method adopted by the Club fully complies with the law. The BAC embodies a totally electronic method of registration. Players will register themselves and provide details of three BAC registered airsoft sites that they have attended in a period of time greater than two months. Crucially, these games do not have to be played at the same site. This information will be verified with the airsoft sites and once confirmed; a player will become a member of the BAC. This will enable the player to be able to purchase a RIF with participating retailers. The BAC system enables players to be transient and not be required to repeatedly attend a single airsoft site. The BAC is an airsoft membership club and not a retailer association. The BAC will encourage structure, connectivity, communication and best practice between airsoft players, sites and retailers. The BAC is a non-profit organisation and has been formed to support the airsoft community and forward the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longshot Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 What do you worry is not 'legit' about any of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz JJ Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I can see it being beneficial to the player - you can play at three different sites to validate your defence - you aren't confined to going to the same place three times and it only costs £6.99 per year. I don't know how the sites will view it. They have to confirm that the player has played and they cant charge the players for processing the UKARA as some do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted February 13, 2014 Supporters Share Posted February 13, 2014 I don't know how the sites will view it. They have to confirm that the player has played and they cant charge the players for processing the UKARA as some do. Retailers have to pay £300 to be a part of UKARA, for smaller retailers that is quite a lot so they'll benefit from it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacMaster Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Is there any info on a minimum age requirement to join the BAC? If there isn't one mentioned I expect there'll be many younger airsofters who might abuse this to gain access to RIFs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike636 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 You can't purchase RIFs or IFs if your under 18. I wouldn't hand over any details unti the Police or Government actually say that they will accept it as a defence because until they do retailers won't touch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz JJ Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 At the moment they are only accepting registration from retailers and sites. The real loser will be the sites. They will potentially lose repeat noobie customers, the income from processing their UKARA and they will get the hassle of having to tick boxes routinely on the BAC database without any return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike636 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Well to be honest my UKARA didn't cost me anything which it find odd that other sites charge but still surely the emphasis should be having a good day so new players want to come back because it was good not because they need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacMaster Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 You can't purchase RIFs or IFs if your under 18. I wouldn't hand over any details unti the Police or Government actually say that they will accept it as a defence because until they do retailers won't touch it. I understand the U18 laws however many sites don't check, I've taken guns through to the checkout on many sites for budget checking, and only 1 or 2 had proper age checks. The rest was just open for anyone to buy an airsoft gun as long as it was painted. With this BAC defence (which has no info on age limits atm) U18s may be able to buy RIFs (illegally from an age perspective) but with a possibly supported defence- so there would be literally no resistance to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike636 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 But if it's illegal for under 18s to purchase them then it's a mute point really unless they required a defence for painting but that's a lot of potential hassle for a minority of users Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose87 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 it sounds like a good idea but im not gonna pay for the right to buy something which is already my legal right to do so. if it was government registration then i could understand payment if i was to receive a a police certified membership in which i could produce then something like a license. im not saying thats what i want but thats what i would pay for, i wouldnt want that at all tho as thats balls. just sounds like a company attempting to cash in on the airsoft community trying to fund a new version of ARA. i for one will not pay for something which is my legal right. the police have bigger problems on their hands then the small minority of people buying RIFs to commit crimes. When will they realise that an IF and a can of spray paint will achieve pretty much the same effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armysurplusandtoys Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 It seems more clubs and groups out side of ukara have started popping up would this suggest that some players are not agreeing to the ukara membership rules or fees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz JJ Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 There is a lot of Anti with UKARA amongst the retailing side, so I think people are welcoming an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted February 16, 2014 Supporters Share Posted February 16, 2014 It seems more clubs and groups out side of ukara have started popping up would this suggest that some players are not agreeing to the ukara membership rules or fees? Players don't have to pay to beg on the ukara database so that's likely not the issue. Retailers do however which I don't think they should have to, it should help airsofters and retatilers a like.Not sure on these new schemes I think there's potential for too many and becoming a mess but we'll see in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz JJ Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I have raised a concern with the BAC on their Facebook site as I can see a potential problem where players pay their £7 PA but some sites are slow to update the database. I dont think they have thought through all the aspects as they believe all sites will update their database every week. What incentive is there for the sites to do this if they have other pressures on their time, especially the smaller, amateur ones who have day jobs ? BAC suggested that the player can chase as well as BAC chasing them, but why should you if you pay for a service ? BAC need to think of a way to ensure that this happens, There is no point paying your fee and happily roaming around various sites, only to find that a few of them arent recording your visits, especially if you only play 3-4 times a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz JJ Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Another thing that wound me up about the UKARA and the way it was implemented by sites was that you could play three games at one site and as happened to me, they made me come back a 4th time to put my paperwork through and then I had to wait the best part of a week for them to process this. While I accepted the three games, I thought it was a bit cheeky to force me to pay for a 4th game there and when you are keen to get going with your own RIF, every days delay seems like a week. The new schemes being proposed should stop this, although there is nothing to stop the site dragging their heels clicking on the appropriate box in the database. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz JJ Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 In answer to my question to BAC, once you have played, you have to log in and select the site from a drop down box. That automatically sends an email, to the site. The site clicks a yes or no link within the email. That's it! No admin for the site which was my main stumbling block over this scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Noticed this elsewhere http://www.britishairsoftclub.co.uk/retailers-page/ We are NOT a retailer or trade association. British Airsoft Club, 272 High Street North, Dunstable, LU6 1BE Phone: 01582 253499 Strange as there is a retailer at that address. http://www.redalertairsoft.com/ 272 High Street North Dunstable , Bedfordshire . LU6 1BE Phone: 01582 253499 Stinks of a money making scheme to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz JJ Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Is there anything wrong with people making money ? My site charges me £10 per year for my UKARA in the form of a membership card. What do they do with that money ? I get no other benefit from that membership. If I can pay less and roam around not having to play at that site at least three times every year, then that is a good thing surely ? If you get it for free, stay with UKARA ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AF-UK Founding Member Deva Posted February 17, 2014 AF-UK Founding Member Share Posted February 17, 2014 The retailer thing is odd, but they have registered as a private company limited by guarantee for the BAC. You can check this on the Companies House website. I'm led to believe that type of company is used for non profit companies but it's not something I know a lot about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz JJ Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I think the main issue that people are flagging is that they say they are not a retailer, but the people setting it up are a retailer who were frustrated with UKARA. It sounds like they have set BAC up as a non profit company using the same address as their retail business. There is nothing illegal in this. Perhaps they are saying that BAC is not a retailer or trade association which is true. Does it really matter ? When I started airsofting, I was obliged to attend 4 games at the same site, pay £10 and then wait almost another week, in order to get my UKARA defence come through. Every day waiting seemed like a week because I was keen to buy my first RIF. So, if there is an easier way, Im happy that somebody can charge less and people can get a defence as soon as they have met the 3 game criteria. I have registered with the BAC, put in my three last games and will see how long it takes for my account to go active. At the moment, I haven't been asked to pay the £6.99 fee so we will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longshot Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 No matter which way you cut it, UKARA, BAC and Luther are all primarily for the benefit of the retailer/seller. Due to a constantly repeated series of misconceptions, and a misunderstanding of how the English language operates, people who want to buy RIFs have come to believe that they need to 'get/have' a defence and need to have played 3 games to achieve this. They don't need either. Firstly buyers need to 'provide' a defence, which, contrary to popular belief, does not mean the same as 'have a defence.' Rather it means provide a defence for the SELLER, who is the person that will be breaking the law. Secondly for the seller to establish a defence FOR THEMSELVES all they actually need to do is satisfy themselves that the RIF is being bought by someone who intends to use it for airsofting; there is NO mandatory number of games or time period whatsoever (which is why even founding members of the UKARA have sold RIFs to people who have never even played a SINGLE airsoft game before, and they have been well within the law to do so). All these schemes will benefit the buyer as a secondary effect because retailers/sellers want an easy way to provide a defence for THEMSELVES, the real problem is that buyers have been fooled into believing they NEED schemes like this when all they are there for is to remove some legwork for retailers/sellers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AF-UK Founding Member Deva Posted February 17, 2014 AF-UK Founding Member Share Posted February 17, 2014 I think people know the technicalities, it's just often easier to word it otherwise. If someone says you must have 'UKARA registration' you know what they mean, right? It's just semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted February 17, 2014 Supporters Share Posted February 17, 2014 It sounds like they have set BAC up as a non profit company using the same address as their retail business. There is nothing illegal in this. Perhaps they are saying that BAC is not a retailer or trade association which is true. If it's non-profit where does the money go? The alternative suggests various methods in which they could give back to the airsoft community with the funds that are paid to them. Although they say they aren't a retailer, it's clearly heavily linked to red alert airsoft, there's no two ways about it./ When I started airsofting, I was obliged to attend 4 games at the same site, pay £10 and then wait almost another week, in order to get my UKARA defence come through. Every day waiting seemed like a week because I was keen to buy my first RIF. So, if there is an easier way, Im happy that somebody can charge less and people can get a defence as soon as they have met the 3 game criteria. In fairness that is down to your site UKARA is free and only needs 3 games, you could have taken the forms after the 3rd game and sent them off yourself- assuming your site would let you. Just read this on another forum Basically some guys that operate a half-assed importing outfit out of their bedroom got fed up that UKARA told them they weren't a proper retailer, then started their own version which is almost identical just with them in control. Now obviously that doesn't make it fact but equally it doesn't fill me with confidence if that's the case. The issue that most people had with ukara was that it was ran by a retailer so this although a much improved system (despite having to pay for it) may simply translate over to this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz JJ Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Personally I dont care where the profit goes. If they want to keep my 6.99 then so be it. Ive signed up and I might lose a whole seven pounds but I will take the risk. My site has signed up to them and there appears to be some infrastructure behind it. Ive quizzed the people behind it and Im satisfied. I will look at what else is around in 2015 if I still need to buy RIFs then and will subscribe accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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