Dirty Boots and Kit?

[CaptainSwoop]

Looks like you need a new pair - soles are looking a bit tired

 

 

Nice tanks by the way....

Yup getting pretty worn, I have a new pair ready to replace them.

 

Tank pictures were on there to put up on to the http://www.track-link.com/ web site for a modelling Blog. They are the components for a First Gulf War Diorama. I have to admit it hasn't progressed any further since xmas.

[Mike1971]

 

This is what we want.

I should send some of my cadets to you for boot polishing lessons

I'm glad I don't have to polish my boots anymore, just give them a quick brush(Issued Lowa desert).

[Ian_Gere]

If my boots last more than a year of being kicked about the woods then bonus but if not I'll just get another pair, gives me a chance to try different brands to see what is most comfy :-)

My first pair of German Para Boots lasted about 20 years - tbh they were totally fcuked up looking by the end, but it was the rubber in the soles deteriorating which ended them. I did try to get 'em resoled, but the bloke who claimed to be a cobbler turned out to be a penis with a rudimentary understanding of his limited tools and machinery thus he not only failed but fcuked them up beyond all recovery.

 

For probably 8 of those years they were my main footwear and that often involved dirt, rubble, kicking stuff, the usual active life stuff. There were a few deep gouges in the leather by the end, but they remained waterproof. I wasn't surprised by how well they survived or by how long - I would either let them dry (stuff them with newspaper if I did any wading) and use a stiff brush to get dried mud off, or if I would need to wear them again before mud could properly dry, scrape it off with whatever came to hand and rinse them under a tap. I would then proceed to polish them. I never felt the need to go as far as Swoop; I mean yeah, as others have said, I wasn't in the army so there was no need; just a layer of polish all over, let it sink in for 5 mins then buff to a shine. Not that the shine would usually last very long, not 10 mins often, but that wasn't the point...

 

...the fact that they would last if looked after was. I used saddle soap a handful of times in those 2 decades too. Various essential oils dripped inside once in a blue moon kept them smelling fine. I confidently expect the pair I have now to see me through until I'm too fcuked to need 'em. I feel that it's a good thing that my use of the skin of another living creature is kept to a minimum by looking after that skin. I'd feel guilty if I carelessly disrespected whatever incentive my needs created for somebody to raise an animal in captivity and kill it. If my needs included wearing them to destruction quickly, because I had little to no opportunity to take care of them, then that would be fair enough. But laziness isn't a need and nor, despite advertising and the materialistic social pressure it creates, is novelty.

 

I have no idea how to look after issue Lowas but, knowing the British Army, there will be a way.

[Guest PT247]

sounds like a lot more work than I can be arsed with, and the cows will still be killed their meat enjoyed and hides turned into shoes, jackets and handbags even if all airsofters had 1 pair of boots for 20yrs.

 

I assume you use bio BBs as well given that post?

[Ian_Gere]

sounds like a lot more work than I can be arsed with, and the cows will still be killed their meat enjoyed and hides turned into shoes, jackets and handbags even if all airsofters had 1 pair of boots for 20yrs.

"It will still happen whether I contribute to it or not" - I hope that stripping the particulars out of the sentence to leave the general is enough to demonstrate the flaws in this kind of argument, but just in case...

 

Let us assume that I too cannot be arsed to clean my boots and that I too don't care about the consequences of my need for more boots as a result, so long as those consequences would happen to some large but undefined degree anyway. So I am morally justified in buying stolen boots, because theft wouldn't stop if I choose to withdraw my contribution towards the incentive.

I assume you use bio BBs as well given that post?

Why would you assume that?

[Lozart]

 

"It will still happen whether I contribute to it or not" - I hope that stripping the particulars out of the sentence to leave the general is enough to demonstrate the flaws in this kind of argument, but just in case...

 

Let us assume that I too cannot be arsed to clean my boots and that I too don't care about the consequences of my need for more boots as a result, so long as those consequences would happen to some large but undefined degree anyway. So I am morally justified in buying stolen boots, because theft wouldn't stop if I choose to withdraw my contribution towards the incentive.

 

 

I think we're rapidly approaching the point of reductio ad absurdum here.

 

I assume that he's referring to the "green" nature of making a set of boots last in his Bio BBs quip though.

[Ian_Gere]

Oh I feel like I smiled in the direction of reductio, but didn't even flirt Absurd would be paying to have someone killed to take their boots... You* and I know that my argument hinges on a moral equivalence and, if someone addresses that, I'll be happy to defend it, but I'm interested to see what, if anything, anyone can come up with to defend laziness and/or waste.

 

 

*I assume

[Lozart]

I think it's partly an age thing. Those of us with mortgages/rent to pay will happily clean boots to make them last longer whereas the perhaps younger ones among us or at least those with more disposable income will just say "fuck it, I'll buy a new pair".

 

Personally I find the outer heels of my boots wear out way before the uppers (on account of having wonky feet) so it's not really an issue for me.

[Ian_Gere]

I think you've probably hit the nail on the head, Lozart.

 

The govt will always talk up "economic recovery" but anyone who knows anything about economics knows that if you make nothing, you earn nothing, unless of course you can make people make stuff for you to sell and prevent them from selling it to whomever they like, for whatever currency they like, themselves. That is a strategy we see unravelling around us, which is again obvious, since the means of coercion ultimately has to come down to military force, which is expensive in not just treasure but political support, as the body count racks up.

 

Govt.s can lie their way through the process all they like, but it doesn't matter whether people understand the interminable euphemisms and jargon, at a basic level they do understand that when lives are being spent, we had better be getting something palpable in return for them. If people suspect that our leaders would rather spend the lives of young people than the money of their cronies for nothing more than the status quo, which will thus require more lives as soon as the situation normalises after any given surge in conflict, then support flows away like water in a holey bucket. In fact it's a situation that often produces civil unrest.

 

This is a cyclical state of affairs which, so far, has been managed in the west, but in the global game of Risk there are no little countries left to subjugate. Any territory which can be forced to produce something and prevented from selling it themselves to whomever they like is already under the control, by one means or another, of a large faction with both the means and, more importantly, the need, to defend that control.

 

WTF does this have to do with dirty boots you may ask? The global situation we are in has no exact precedent but those who study the periodicity of cyclical economics such as K-waves have predicted a confluence of downward trends which would create conditions worse than The Great Depression. But as I say, cycles of economics may no longer be reliable, since those who make the decisions which cause them are now aware of them, the world market potential is close to being maxed out, and the consequences of losing territory are now so much more final. Which brings us back to base principles: if you make nothing, you earn nothing.

 

Historically the only way that any capitalist economy has ever recovered from an economic slump is by direct top down investment in the kind of infrastructure which improves ordinary peoples' lives. The reasons are many and complex but can be summed up by saying that the profit from investing in such infrastructure is severely reduced if it is taken in cash for the use of that infrastructure, but is rather far better measured in the increased productivity and business opportunities created by healthier, happier, wealthier, ordinary people. This is a philosophy which conservative monetarists are dead set against. Even though all evidence is against them...

 

So wtf this has to do with dirty boots is just this - there is no other political philosophy with enough followers to achieve any significant power. Even the so called 'left' do not dispute the monetarist principle that nothing has any value other than what somebody is prepared to pay for it, right there and then, at the moment of analysis. So we in the west can look forward to nothing actually changing until such time as something happens which is so bad that we are forced to reconsider what drives our economic and political decisions. Thus we will be on the point of economic collapse, only held off by military occupation and threat, for the foreseeable future. It is very likely that our throwaway culture will have to change, because wages are only going to continue to fall, in comparison to the cost of living, and military expenditure is going to become such a millstone around any chancellor's neck, compared to falling tax revenue, that surplus will no longer be sold off for a pittance.

[Lozart]

So our boots are dirty because we're all laissez-faire Marxists?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I bet CaptSwoop never thought this thread would end up in socio economic political discourse.

Of course if the Cherry Blossom factory hadn't gone bust we'd all have more shoe polish in the first place.....

[Esoterick]

hmm I've got a reasonable amount of income at my disposal but I still think it is sensible to take care of my 40 quid German Para boots. Although to be honest I quite enjoy it, as far as clothing goes - let's be realistic it will stink of BO if it isn't washed unless you barely move at all for the duration of your skirmishes.

[Ian_Gere]

Actually Marx was one of the political philosophers who ascribed value to labour and its products regardless of how much anyone would pay for either in any given moment. A Marxist might well be more concerned about the disrespect shown to the worker/s who produced the materials and then the boots by allowing them to disintegrate faster than need be out of sheer laziness. Of course, now that I've written that, the prevailing political environment requires that we ignore the above words "one of" and go around actively destroying boots for no reason at all, otherwise we are obviously Communists.

 

TBH I think the Capn may not have expected such detail, but clearly how we treat our gear and the attitudes which inform our choices are socio-economic issues.

[Lozart]

Actually Marx was one of the political philosophers who ascribed value to labour and its products regardless of how much anyone would pay for either in any given moment. A Marxist might well be more concerned about the disrespect shown to the worker/s who produced the materials and then the boots by allowing them to disintegrate faster than need be out of sheer laziness. Of course, now that I've written that, the prevailing political environment requires that we ignore the above words "one of" and go around actively destroying boots for no reason at all, otherwise we are obviously Communists.

 

TBH I think the Capn may not have expected such detail, but clearly how we treat our gear and the attitudes which inform our choices are socio-economic issues.

I like you. Proper informed, intelligent debate with a subtle undercurrent of humour.

 

Of course the problem with Communism was taking a perfectly good idea (Marxism) and fucking it up by being greedy (which is unfortunately basic human nature of course). Plus the Communists had shite boots. Any self respecting worker would (or indeed should) be upset to see the fruits of his labour destroyed by poor care and use but in this day and age of consumerism we demand more for less meaning much footwear doesn't stand up to even moderate wear and tear and yet cannot be economically repaired. When a new pair of shoes costs £35 and a re-sole costs the same, what do you do?

[Ian_Gere]

Thanks, I like you too. It's nice that someone gets it. TBH there's often more humour to be had from drawing subtle comparisons between whatever the topic may be and window glass, as it relates to ophthalmology.

 

TBH I think there are more problems with communism than greed. I mean there are tribes and religious communities who hold property in common ownership. It's not like they have eliminated the fear of not having enough, or the obsessive compulsive disorder which can spring from it, greed. Nor can anyone amputate the ambition to acquire status within our peer groups, which is literally as hard wired as our sex drive ( ). Still, it's not just communism that has to deal with social problems which derive from instinctive and/or subconscious behaviours.

 

It's attributed to Churchill that Democracy is the worst form of government except all the others we've tried, but then again he also said that the truth was so important that it needs a bodyguard of lies. I suppose the facts that we do not live in a Democracy and neither the Soviet nor Chinese Revolutions resulted in Communism are just such truths.

 

I really want a pair of those Soviet mountain boots - canvas and rubber. Apparently they're really comfy and hard wearing. Maybe Russian cows were Trotskyites - continuing the revolution regardless of the discomfort caused! (I'm here all week)

 

Ooops, forgot to say you buy boots that don't fall apart rather than the shiny new cool OMG I must have them cos they're fashionable footwear.

[Guest PT247]

 

"It will still happen whether I contribute to it or not" - I hope that stripping the particulars out of the sentence to leave the general is enough to demonstrate the flaws in this kind of argument, but just in case...

 

Let us assume that I too cannot be arsed to clean my boots and that I too don't care about the consequences of my need for more boots as a result, so long as those consequences would happen to some large but undefined degree anyway. So I am morally justified in buying stolen boots, because theft wouldn't stop if I choose to withdraw my contribution towards the incentive.

Why would you assume that?

 

Not sure where buying stolen goods came in to this, but how I look after my own things is not a crime.... stealing is.... I don't feel morally obligated to polish my boots, it is something that just doesn't interest me or concern me enough to do. :-)

 

I think we're rapidly approaching the point of reductio ad absurdum here.

 

I assume that he's referring to the "green" nature of making a set of boots last in his Bio BBs quip though.

Yup, sort of.... going airsofting is essentially littering on quite a large scale (admittedly on private land). What right do any of us have to fill the woodlands etc with a layer of plastic? Unless a person collects every BB they fire they are themselves morally wrong surely?

 

I think it's partly an age thing. Those of us with mortgages/rent to pay will happily clean boots to make them last longer whereas the perhaps younger ones among us or at least those with more disposable income will just say "f*ck it, I'll buy a new pair".

 

Personally I find the outer heels of my boots wear out way before the uppers (on account of having wonky feet) so it's not really an issue for me.

I am nearly 40, have my own home, mortgage, car and several motorbikes that all need hard earned money to keep them going and am the only earner in the house. I am sure there are younger folk out there that both do and don't polish their boots too. I just have things I find better to do with my time (am not saying more constructive use btw lol). Like I said before; am ex forces for 12yrs service and had enough of the polish your boots BS, I still had to replace my boots at least once a year as no matter how well you try and look after them... hydraulic oil, salt water and wearing them for a minimum of 12hours a day every day when out on patrol kills them. My airsoft boots get worn once a week tops, and may see a lot of mud on that one day, but it is still an easy life for them! :-)

 

 

Am sure those of you that polish your boots and iron your combats have just as much fun out on skirmishes as I do, and you may save some cash by looking after ya kit better than I do but I seriously doubt on my death bed my last words will be "I wish I'd spent more time polishing my boots"

[CaptainSwoop]

I bet CaptSwoop never thought this thread would end up in socio economic political discourse.

Of course if the Cherry Blossom factory hadn't gone bust we'd all have more shoe polish in the first place.....

 

 

It's all good, it got some activity into the board

[Theoutlaw]

 

I feel obliged to trot out the expected response of "If I wanted to be nagged about cleaning my boots I'd have joined the army".

 

Or listen to the wife.....

[Ian_Gere]

Not sure where buying stolen goods came in to this, but how I look after my own things is not a crime.... stealing is.... I don't feel morally obligated to polish my boots, it is something that just doesn't interest me or concern me enough to do. :-)

It's about the moral equivalence I mentioned above. If you wilfully ignore the fact that your civilian boots will last longer if you clean and polish them, you also ignore any and all the consequences of creating a need for more. Whether something is a crime or legal matters not at all: it's only been illegal to fcuk kids for a little over a hundred years, does that make all the kiddie rape previously ok? Obviously not. The question becomes then, what is just as bad as receiving stolen goods?

Yup, sort of.... going airsofting is essentially littering on quite a large scale (admittedly on private land). What right do any of us have to fill the woodlands etc with a layer of plastic? Unless a person collects every BB they fire they are themselves morally wrong surely?

Actually non-bio BB's will break down eventually, but in the meantime they are no worse for the environment than, say, the gravel created by glaciers dragging granite over granite, ie hard stones which do not readily interact chemically with their environment. However the point is moot because what difference would it make if I turned up to every skirmish with a container of toxic waste and surreptitiously spread it all over the field? What if I bought my boots from a thief? What if I was a paedophile? Would anything I did/do affect the morality of your behaviour?

 

Am sure those of you that polish your boots and iron your combats have just as much fun out on skirmishes as I do, and you may save some cash by looking after ya kit better than I do but I seriously doubt on my death bed my last words will be "I wish I'd spent more time polishing my boots"

Ahhhhhh... the meat and spuds of the argument. Those of us who polish our boots are also the sort of people who iron their kecks even though we don't have a chain of command making us do so, ie ponces. We are probably homosexuals also. I dunno what my last words will be, probably something like, "Eeeeeuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurghhhhhhhh...", but you never know, I might get one last chance to offer a male nurse a blowjob. One thing I will not be thinking though is, "Ffs, look at the state of this world. I know there was stuff I could have easily done to avoid making it any worse, but I was just too lazy to do it."

[Guest PT247]

lol, so now me not polishing boots makes me as bad as a paedo pmsl

 

Couldn't give a monkey what your sexual preferences are.... men, women, it makes no odds, and neither does it make any difference to me or any other airsofter if you polish your boots or not.

 

If it makes you feel like you are saving the world by polishing your boots then good for you. If I am still airsofting in 20yrs I'll let you know how many pairs of boots I've gotten through ;-)

[Lozart]

If it makes you feel like you are saving the world by polishing your boots then good for you. If I am still airsofting in 20yrs I'll let you know how many pairs of boots I've gotten through ;-)

 

I think he's more bothered about saving a few quid on new boots

[Lozart]

 

 

It's all good, it got some activity into the board

 

Good point, this place is pretty quiet...

 

[Ian_Gere]

lol, so now me not polishing boots makes me as bad as a paedo pmsl

Piss yourself laughing!?! What are you talking about? Are you suffering from subconscious guilt or something? You know that you've done something wrong, so it doesn't matter what anyone actually says, if they do not agree with you, they must be accusing you?

 

In what system of logic does pointing out that something which is morally wrong was not illegal until relatively recently in the history of morality equate to accusing you of being as morally deficient? The point is clearly, as I said, that it doesn't matter whether something is a crime or legally allowed when we discuss its moral rectitude. You made a distinction between not looking after your boots and receiving stolen goods, because theft is a crime. I say it's a spurious distinction and gave an example of why.

 

TBH I have as little patience with explaining logic as you apparently have with polishing boots. Still, since you know reductio, you're probably also on nodding terms with non sequitur, eh?

 

No Lozart, I have so much status that I habitually demonstrate it by wasting money in conspicuous displays of income. During the long dark tea time of the soul, it makes me feel powerful!

[Guest PT247]

I guess I don't manage to put my point accross quite as elequently or with as large a volcabularily as yourself. And to be honest I really do not see why I need to use more words than these:

I don't polish my boots because I can't be bothered to, I don't care if others do or don't. I don't believe it will save the world if I do and don't believe the world will come to an apocalyiptic standstill if I don't.

 

I hardly think a pair of muddy boots is a "conspicuous display of income" if that is what you were getting at?

[Sam_G]

I wash my ubacs and combats because i sweat like hitler waiting for a gas bill!

 

My rigs aired out and then chucked back in my kit bag!

 

I clean and polish my pro-boots to keep them waterproof and wearable.

 

however having shiny boots is a huge NO NO!!

[Guest PT247]

Piss yourself laughing!?! What are you talking about? Are you suffering from subconscious guilt or something? You know that you've done something wrong, so it doesn't matter what anyone actually says, if they do not agree with you, they must be accusing you?

 

 

Sssshhhhhhh (it's our little secret, you'll go into care if you tell anyone).

Hardly subconscious guilt..... you have just said there you think I have done something wrong, not me saying it but you. You are correct though; on the internet it does not matter one iota what anyone says. Not because they must be accusing someone but because on the internet folk tend to rant off at the slightest thing blaming the worlds problems on trivial items. Am guessing some may interpret that as mistakenly thinking that if others are wrong, then in comparison they themselves must be right, good, and capable. Does the strategy of putting others down to build up your self-esteem work? Some people psychoanalyse others, using their half-baked knowledge of pop psychology to put someone down. Comments such as "morally deficient" make it sound like they have an insight into someone's brain, when in reality they point out others faults because their ego was offended.