Should more sites weigh the bbs during chrono?

[Cannonfodder]

53 minutes ago, mrfoxhound said:

joules and fps not matching up

That makes no sense at all. The joules is calculated using the weight given by the player so if the player lies about the bb weight then the joules reading will be wrong making a hot gun appear ok

[mrfoxhound]

51 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

That makes no sense at all. The joules is calculated using the weight given by the player so if the player lies about the bb weight then the joules reading will be wrong making a hot gun appear ok

na the fps will not match your joule reading if i have a j reading of 1.2 and say im using 0.2 the fps is gonna be 360 mark if i have the same j reading and they say they are using 0.2 and the fps is 240 , im gonna question that and ask to weigh the bbs cos there using heavy ammo , 0.45 bbs 

Edited Thursday at 01:37 by mrfoxhound

[Cannonfodder]

Maybe for when the claimed and actual weights are at either end of the weight ranges. If the cheating player were to use a 0.32 bb at 1.2j the fps would be 284

[mrfoxhound]

1 hour ago, Cannonfodder said:

Maybe for when the claimed and actual weights are at either end of the weight ranges. If the cheating player were to use a 0.32 bb at 1.2j the fps would be 284

that specific example would be related to what the site rules are ... so for example  if the site rules where 1.2 j for full auto 1.88 for dmr and 2.3 for bolt action and a guy rolled up and said he was using .32s and his fps was 280/290 and his joules are 1.20/1.25 that's with in an acceptable variance all depending on how much over the site allows , i would be raising eye brows if if he said .32 and his fps is 240 and his joules is 1.20 , i don't think the average person cheating the chrono is going to such efforts to hide small % , but more larger jumps, i would also probly assume that people that are new to the hobby and either dont understand joule creep or that changing the weight is cheating the chrono ,i see it all the time on posts  on facebook about people being a little to hot and some peoples advice is to just use heavy ammo , the consequences of that catch up with people  

[Rogerborg]

6 hours ago, mrfoxhound said:

they say they are using 0.2 and the fps is 240

 

Why would someone planning to lie to you tell such an obvious lie?  They'd be under 1.2J with anything up to 0.45g anyway.

 

We're talking about the situation where Harry Hotgun says "Yeah, mate, using point twos today, mate", chronos at 350fps, then walks onto the field shooting 2J with the 0.36g that he's really got loaded.

 

How does trusting him about the BB weight catch that?

[mrfoxhound]

5 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Why would someone planning to lie to you tell such an obvious lie?  They'd be under 1.2J with anything up to 0.45g anyway.

 

We're talking about the situation where Harry Hotgun says "Yeah, mate, using point twos today, mate", chronos at 350fps, then walks onto the field shooting 2J with the 0.36g that he's really got loaded.

 

How does trusting him about the BB weight catch that?

you dont  you weigh his shit , then ban him 

[Rogerborg]

9 minutes ago, mrfoxhound said:

you dont  you weigh his shit , then ban him 

 

Wait, have we been agreeing all this time? 😕

[Lyndication]

Man, can I get a list of sites yous play at because if this is a genuine concern, I'll swerve them ngl. 

 

Have not had this much fuss about BB weights and cheaters at my local sites, thank fuck.

[mrfoxhound]

7 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Wait, have we been agreeing all this time? 😕

yer

4 minutes ago, Lyndication said:

Man, can I get a list of sites yous play at because if this is a genuine concern, I'll swerve them ngl. 

 

Have not had this much fuss about BB weights and cheaters at my local sites, thank fuck.

can you remember when someone was walked off site or banned at your local airsoft?

[Rory]

Corporal Jones moment coming on here....

When I was running the Wargames Centre in Ayrshire ( now biohazard), as a CQB style indoor site we had a limit of 328fps (+/- 10) and always tested on .2s. As it got busier we had more issues just chopping and changing mags etc to chrono. 
We had guys turning up when hpa was becoming more common and we had issues with understanding locking settings etc. The same with guys having MK23s with the suppressor which took pistols over 380-400 fps.

Theres also different gases that can ramp fps. 
As said before, if someone has a hard-on so bad to chrono at the site limit then quick change/regas/use magic then they are going to do so. 
I've had people who chrono over the fps saying they'll use heavier beebs, which doesn't help, as the energy is still there. 
We did give someone a ban for using a hot gun, and I definitely kicked players off site for aggressive behaviour.
The trouble with infractions, some of them genuine mistakes, is that at the end of the day, everyone wants to play safely and honestly, there's always going to be a dick in there, and there's a fine line between punting players/getting a name for being an overly strict site and paying the rent and rates.
As much as I/we voice support by playing honestly and by the rules, you get a different experience when you're having to use your own money to tide over the site as you build your legit player base. ( and that is just my experience, I am not in favour of anyone cheating/bending the rules)

Edited Thursday at 17:17 by Rory
Grammar

[Lyndication]

4 hours ago, mrfoxhound said:

can you remember when someone was walked off site or banned at your local airsoft?

 

Quite a few times. One time they sent an entire team home because the buggers were messing with their HPA setups and cranking the power. 

 

Marshals ambushed a couple of them with a spot chrono check and they were 1J over lmao. 

 

Generally players just behave themselves. It helps that most of them still think you should run .2s because they go faster.

[Rory]

31 minutes ago, Lyndication said:

 

Quite a few times. One time they sent an entire team home because the buggers were messing with their HPA setups and cranking the power. 

I've also seen entire teams/groups/friends leave and be refunded because one person was over the limit. If it's within the range then okay, but then you get "it's only 15 fps over/it's only 5 over the top line /it's my new hop/ it's a new spring it'll bed in after the first game " and there's pressure to let one slide, "we drove xx miles/ heard great things about the site" 

It's hard to remain neutral all the time, as you know you're getting slated on the forums/ FaceArse page. you put yourself in their shoes, try to accommodate. 
In southern Spain and Portugal, I've played a few sites and they don't have chrono, they just have an understanding that no one will be a dick. I played in Croatia and there was hard rules at 350fps, anybody who didn't make the limit was told to foxtrot oscar , no ifs or buts or coconuts 

[Cannonfodder]

11 hours ago, mrfoxhound said:

you dont  you weigh his shit , then ban him 

So how would the chrono reading tell you they're lied about the bb weight? The fps reading on the chrono would match up to the expected fps from that weight

[Tackle]

On 04/06/2025 at 18:31, Tackle said:

I think we can argue this for the next couple of months, but ultimately all sites should be chronoing at the start of the day, on one weight, probably 0.20, and be prepared to have marshals do random on the spot checks using the same weight, especially if particular players have history or complaints made against them.

End of the day, cheats WILL cheat, they'll use everything they can to achieve what the perceive to be an advantage over their fellow players, hpa, npas, quick change springs etc all enable them to make short notice changes to energy output after the chrono, & sites can't stop them, but they're letting down their honest clients by not trying their hardest to root out the cheats, & when found they should be very publicly banned.

Any site that does that, I'd play there, as was said earlier, it's all about trust so any site that works hard to push that agenda gets my vote.

I should have said in this post that obviously to make things easier, the marshals should have a small assortment of mags preloaded with the right weight.

Weighing bb's just sounds like a right kerfuffle that'll be easy to fiddle on the fly.

 

[Baser]

4 hours ago, Tackle said:

I should have said in this post that obviously to make things easier, the marshals should have a small assortment of mags preloaded with the right weight.

Weighing bb's just sounds like a right kerfuffle that'll be easy to fiddle on the fly.

 

Invicta Blacksite ask you to bring an empty mag to chrono which you fill with their .20's and speed loader, if under 350fps you can then use your own ammo up to .25.  Think it's because most engagements are 1-2m away and it hurts a lot when you are under the limit and I can only imagine what it would be like if you were over. The woodlands site is more of a trust site where you can chrono with your own ammo but then engagements are 10-20m so a significantly lower risk of injury. 

[Cannonfodder]

5 hours ago, Tackle said:

I should have said in this post that obviously to make things easier, the marshals should have a small assortment of mags preloaded with the right weight.

Weighing bb's just sounds like a right kerfuffle that'll be easy to fiddle on the fly.

 

That's what they did at urban assault. Also the area where the chrono was used had enough space to watch the flightpath of the bb so they could tell if someone was being dishonest about bb weight 

[Rogerborg]

4 hours ago, Baser said:

Invicta Blacksite ask you to bring an empty mag to chrono which you fill with their .20's and speed loader

 

That makes sense for CQB sites, it's what BioHazard and the Depot do near me.

 

Outdoors, sites don't tend to do it because of the wider range of BB weights, but I think that's a bogus argument.  Sites could be putting in (for the sake of argument) 0.36g BBs, which are at the upper end of what AEGs are going to be using, and in the DMR range.  That's going to flush out most rogues, except for a few edge cases where people are Joule creeping with 0.4g+, so keep a single speedloader with 0.46g handy for bolties.

 

If the event that someone does come out hot with 0.36g but claims they're OK with some pov-spec BBs, a third speedloader with 0.25g can confirm that.

 

It really doesn't take much preparation to do this, but it seems to be beyond most sites.  And of course, it only tells you what they're chronoing at, at the chrono, not 30 seconds later.

[Lyndication]

I think the only issue with that is gunna be gas guns. My MP7 can do indoor play on .25s and outdoor on .32s without changing the NPAS. If you loaded .36s, it would absolutely shoot hot.

 

It's handy with indoor sites though because the highest they should be using is .25s in most cases, (Bio and Depot both limit to that). Also it doesn't really change the supposed risk of someone turning up with a bag of .4s with a .25 label I guess.

[Rogerborg]

23 hours ago, Lyndication said:

Also it doesn't really change the supposed risk of someone turning up with a bag of .4s with a .25 label I guess.

 

Mmm. Biohazard is pretty good, and did actually in-game chrono an HPA pistol user who I fingered for blasting me shockingly hard.  And they checked his gun with their own 0.2g BBs, also good.

 

But what if he was actually running heavy BBs?  My fingernail chrono suggests that he was.

[JVacation]

I still think the best and easiest way to do it is:

 

1) Player goes to chrono and says what weight they are using

2) Marshall chooses a random amount of shots through the chrono 

3) if all readings are in the limit; remove the mag and take a sample of bbs. 

4) Weigh the bb on some micro scales (your typical drug dealer scale haha) 

5) Approve the player if weight matches 

 

Yes this can be somewhat cheated still but it makes it far harder 

[mrfoxhound]

On 06/06/2025 at 01:33, Cannonfodder said:

So how would the chrono reading tell you they're lied about the bb weight? The fps reading on the chrono would match up to the expected fps from that weight

its combination joules and weighing bbs, joules is the constant  if the site limit for full auto aeg is 1.2 j and someone Chronos 1.2 j but the fps is 240 and they said the bb weight is 0.28 they lying cos a 0.28 at 1.2 j would chrono at 300/310 fps at 1.20 j , you would need to then  weight to confirm ,

so technically they have passed chrono but have lied about the bb weight ,if there lying about bb weight  what else are they being dishonest about?  

[Lyndication]

Mate they keep telling you this: you can't chrono Joules.

 

If someone walks up to the chrono, says they're shooting .28s, then the fps is 240 the marshal chuckles and says, "it's running a bit low innit?" It's not like it's unheard of for a gun to shoot at 1J or even less.

 

Not everyone has RIFs tuned to 0.00001J below the limit. You might pick the odd cheater out with this interrogation, but you'll "catch" 50 kids with two tone shitters for every actual cheater, and hold the chrono queue up for an hour.

[mrfoxhound]

3 hours ago, Lyndication said:

Mate they keep telling you this: you can't chrono Joules.

 

If someone walks up to the chrono, says they're shooting .28s, then the fps is 240 the marshal chuckles and says, "it's running a bit low innit?" It's not like it's unheard of for a gun to shoot at 1J or even less.

 

Not everyone has RIFs tuned to 0.00001J below the limit. You might pick the odd cheater out with this interrogation, but you'll "catch" 50 kids with two tone shitters for every actual cheater, and hold the chrono queue up for an hour.

i think you miss the point of what we are discussing