Should I Upgrade an Ngrs?

[gunbod007]

Yes it is one of those questions... I have been checking out similar threads and got a general vibe from them about this touchy subject, but I would like to ask some specific things out there as I haven't had an AEG in a long time.

 

First of all, I want an NGRS. I get you can spend less and get a decent gun. It isn't about that. I have TM GBBRs and I like the realism and I also want something as a backup for colder months with similar quality and feel. Obvious answer is NGRS. I appreciate there's other stuff out there but I have sold myself on this.

 

Now my main reason for wanting TM is it should be pretty good out of the box with minimal to no upgrades needed. My least favourite part of airsoft is upgrade, myths and maintenance. I would rather get someone else to do it all for me and thats why I trust the gods that are TM. I get they can be improved on but generally their QC is top notch.

 

 

So the main things I want to learn are....

 

A) Should I upgrade anything? If I do it will likely be done out of the box from either Camo raids or Eagle 6. Haven't decided but leaning on Eagle 6 as Camo raids seem to offer some weird angle adjustment and nozzle stuff that I am sure is great but I want to keep as much stock as I can...

 

 

B) How much should I upgrade? I think to obvious upgrade is the spring to get it close to 330/340 for my local CQB site. I will likely run .28s as use them in the GBBR

But is it also worth getting the purple Prometheus hop and flat nub? seems like a common option but Like I said. Ideally want to keep as much stock as possible as I trust TM.

 

C)Does the spring upgrade fuck anything up, such as accuracy? Obviously don't want to make some upgrades potentially harming performance in other areas unless I spend more...

 

D) What's the deal with spring guide stuff...? Camo raids seem to recommend it. Is it an upgrade on an existing part? I need to check if eagle 6 will offer it as their site doesn't mention it. but presumably if I do the spring also need to do the spring guide. Honestly no idea on this bit.

 

 

Finally E) Camoraids or Eagle 6?  

 

 

My main reason for not wanting to upgrade tooo much is obviously related to cost but I also have considered leaving the thing purely stock. I just want a bit more FPS out of it tbh but I have hear very very good things about stock NGRS. I feel like a lot of the insta and YouTube culture is that you must spend over 1k on an NGRS to make it worth it and it kinda seems like diminishing returns. considering how good the stock one should be... at least I think.

 

P.S It's gonna be a MK18 I think.. which reminds me. Lipo mod it right? thats just a wire change? I honestly don't wanna fuck with the gears haha

 

 

So to summarise my kinda final spec would be 

 

NGRS MK18

Stock barrel,

Spring upgrade,

Stock hop rubber and nub or purple prometheus

Rewire for LiPo.

Stock motor

Stock gears and gearbox

Stock nozzle and other air components

 

Let me know if you spot any flaws

Edited March 30, 2021 by gunbod007

[C-Diddy]

Literally asked the same thing last week 

https://airsoft-forums.uk/topic/51304-tm-ngrs-to-upgrade-or-not/

 

Decided that, apart from switching the Tamiya to Deans, I'm going to leave everything alone at this point.

[gunbod007]

50 minutes ago, C-Diddy said:

Literally asked the same thing last week 

https://airsoft-forums.uk/topic/51304-tm-ngrs-to-upgrade-or-not/

 

Decided that, apart from switching the Tamiya to Deans, I'm going to leave everything alone at this point.

Oh I have read a couple of posts but I clearly missed this one. interesting I am so close to leaving it stock. Not sure I can live with 270 FPS when I want to run .28s though You're not even tempted by a spring upgrade 

[C-Diddy]

20 minutes ago, gunbod007 said:

Oh I have read a couple of posts but I clearly missed this one. interesting I am so close to leaving it stock. Not sure I can live with 270 FPS when I want to run .28s though You're not even tempted by a spring upgrade 

 

I had about three games with my 416 last year, running .25s and it was fine. Really accurate too. Like you I do want to move to heavier BBs, maybe up to .32s but, after hearing from the guys on here who are far more experienced with the NGRS platform than I am, I'm not going to rush in. If I still feel like tinkering, I'll maybe look at the hop rubber and possibly barrel. 

 

It was good to be reminded of why I bought a TM in the first place, and why would I pay extra to alter or replace all the stuff that makes them so good in the first place?

Edited March 30, 2021 by C-Diddy

[AlphaBear]

Oh yes yes yes, the TM recoil MK18. She’s a beaut that’s for sure. 

[gunbod007]

57 minutes ago, C-Diddy said:

 

I had about three games with my 416 last year, running .25s and it was fine. Really accurate too. Like you I do want to move to heavier BBs, maybe up to .32s but, after hearing from the guys on here who are far more experienced with the NGRS platform than I am, I'm not going to rush in. If I still feel like tinkering, I'll maybe look at the hop rubber and possibly barrel. 

 

It was good to be reminded of why I bought a TM in the first place, and why would I pay extra to alter or replace all the stuff that makes them so good in the first place?

Yep totally agree with you with wanting a quality weapon like a TM and not fucking around with it. but then I also think. If I am going to do upgrades. may as well get the retailer to do it out the box.

 

I think you've convinced me though. I shall keep it stock. I didn't realise a spring upgrade would also require new gears and at that point you're fucking with the TM magic.

 

What we really need is a TM international division that have all the same quality. Just with a few more FPS.

16 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

Oh yes yes yes, the TM recoil MK18. She’s a beaut that’s for sure. 

Don't tempt me haha I have bought 3 guns in lockdown and haven't even received the third yet. I am very close to getting one of these. TM deliveries seem so rare that whilst a place has them I am tempted to get it. even if it won't see action for a few months

1 hour ago, C-Diddy said:

 

I had about three games with my 416 last year, running .25s and it was fine. Really accurate too. Like you I do want to move to heavier BBs, maybe up to .32s but, after hearing from the guys on here who are far more experienced with the NGRS platform than I am, I'm not going to rush in. If I still feel like tinkering, I'll maybe look at the hop rubber and possibly barrel. 

 

It was good to be reminded of why I bought a TM in the first place, and why would I pay extra to alter or replace all the stuff that makes them so good in the first place?

Out of interest you going to run LiPo?

[AlphaBear]

@gunbod007...... firstly to upgrade or not to upgrade that is the question.... the answer is simple...  I know how much you love tinkering with your MWS so you're gonna end up wanting to do the same to the MK18 coz it's always gonna be niggling in the back of your mind... so I say scratch that itch... The easiest thing to upgrade as I said in that other thread is the Spring guide and the inner barrel and the hop bucking... That will add about 10-15 fps by doing that so you will take the stock 290fps to 300'ish fps maybe a few more.... Now if you want  to change the spring, you have to crack open the gearbox as the spring is attached to the Marui piston. Yup it's a sucker design!. I'd just put in a new piston, piston head, and a new nozzle (one with an O ring). However, if you do that then you start thinking that you may aswell also change the cylinder and the cylinder head coz the gearbox is open. Oh and at the same time swap the bushes out for steel bushes....  then you think oh I need a purple tappet plate coz well it looks cool and its pretty tough.... and then you think.... hmmmmmmmm new steel gears coz yeah they will last longer than the monkey metal Marui gears..... and then someone says don't forget the Gate Titan coz you can have a multi burst trigger and active/adaptive braking and pre-cocking.... how cool is all that? See how you can easily get on this roller coaster..... (yup guilty as charged)...

 

Oh, Eagle6.....! Period!

Edited March 30, 2021 by AlphaBear
Typos

[gunbod007]

10 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

@gunbod007...... firstly to upgrade or not to upgrade that is the question.... the answer is simple...  I know how much you love tinkering with your MWS so you're gonna end up wanting to do the same to the MK18 coz it's always gonna be niggling in the back of your mind... so I say scratch that itch... The easiest thing to upgrade as I said in that other thread is the Spring guide and the inner barrel and the hop bucking... That will add about 10-15 fps by doing that so you will take the stock 290fps to 300'ish fps maybe a few more.... Now if you want  to change the spring, you have to crack open the gearbox as the spring is attached to the Marui piston. Yup it's a sucker design!. I'd just put in a new piston, piston head, and a new nozzle (one with an O ring). However, if you do that then you start thinking that you may aswell also change the cylinder and the cylinder head coz the gearbox is open. Oh and at the same time swap the bushes out for steel bushes....  then you think oh I need a purple tappet plate coz well it looks cool and its pretty tough.... and then you think.... hmmmmmmmm new steel gears coz yeah they will last longer than the monkey metal Marui gears..... and then someone says don't forget the Gate Titan coz you can have a multi burst trigger and active/adaptive braking and pre-cocking.... how cool is all that? See how you can easily get on this roller coaster..... (yup guilty as charged)...

 

Oh, Eagle6.....! Period!

Yes I do love tampering with my MWS but it is all external mods only at this point and I have a tech doing it most of the hard stuff haha. The most I did was change the stock and pistol grip. (May do a nub, but just got the barrel and rail all shimmed nicely so fuck taking that off any time soon)

 

I would definitely be getting the retailer to do all the work out of the box as yes I can see this train of events happening where you may as well upgrade everything. I am tempted by lonex steel gears although I see what you mean about having to crack it open for the spring. I know Camo raids offer all the nozzle stuff and O ring that you mention. Plus they have one in stock and eagle 6 don't yet. although I can wait. I have enough toys for now. 

 

I am leaning on either completely stock. Playing a few games and worst case send it back for some mods. I think that logic is best with this stuff.

 

But yeah id likely do Spring guide, Steel gears, Spring. probably leave the hop alone for now actually. 

 

cheers for all the info.

 

Oh one final thing. Seems like deans wiring mod is a must have? 

 

Are these things ok to run on Lipo. I haven't ever used Lipo and been out of AEG for a while. I assume just gives you better response on semi and better fire rate on auto.

 

 

Out of interest you seem quite certain about eagle 6. Any bad experience with Camo or just all positive from eagle 6?

Also this whole idea started as a cold weather back up for my MWS but for some reason I can see this becoming my main weapon and sidelining the gas guns haha. 

[C-Diddy]

31 minutes ago, gunbod007 said:

Yes I do love tampering with my MWS but it is all external mods only at this point and I have a tech doing it most of the hard stuff haha. The most I did was change the stock and pistol grip. (May do a nub, but just got the barrel and rail all shimmed nicely so fuck taking that off any time soon)

 

I would definitely be getting the retailer to do all the work out of the box as yes I can see this train of events happening where you may as well upgrade everything. I am tempted by lonex steel gears although I see what you mean about having to crack it open for the spring. I know Camo raids offer all the nozzle stuff and O ring that you mention. Plus they have one in stock and eagle 6 don't yet. although I can wait. I have enough toys for now. 

 

I am leaning on either completely stock. Playing a few games and worst case send it back for some mods. I think that logic is best with this stuff.

 

But yeah id likely do Spring guide, Steel gears, Spring. probably leave the hop alone for now actually. 

 

cheers for all the info.

 

Oh one final thing. Seems like deans wiring mod is a must have? 

 

Are these things ok to run on Lipo. I haven't ever used Lipo and been out of AEG for a while. I assume just gives you better response on semi and better fire rate on auto.

 

 

Out of interest you seem quite certain about eagle 6. Any bad experience with Camo or just all positive from eagle 6?

Also this whole idea started as a cold weather back up for my MWS but for some reason I can see this becoming my main weapon and sidelining the gas guns haha. 

Yes, had the lipo mod done to mine and runs really well on  7.4s. Don't go 11.1! Heard some absolute horror stories.

 

I'm currently in the process of fucking the mini Tamiya off for Deans as I've brought a PTS EPS stock (only wish I'd got it in tan) which is cool af, but I need to break out the soldering iron. The Cyma AK will be the guinea pig before I touch the TM 😂

[gunbod007]

13 minutes ago, C-Diddy said:

Yes, had the lipo mod done to mine and runs really well on  7.4s. Don't go 11.1! Heard some absolute horror stories.

 

I'm currently in the process of fucking the mini Tamiya off for Deans as I've brought a PTS EPS stock (only wish I'd got it in tan) which is cool af, but I need to break out the soldering iron. The Cyma AK will be the guinea pig before I touch the TM 😂

Yeah Tan PTS and Magpul stocks are they way to go. 

[AlphaBear]

@gunbod007i have a Camo Raids 416 already. They do splendid work. E6 is Uber good too. Both retailers you can’t go wrong with. I’ve upgraded a lot of recoils in my time but wanted a few done professionally to see how much difference there is between their work and mine. Other than soldering and mosfett installation I’d say it’s marginal. 
 

My MK18 is stock but I’m gonna just swap out the gearbox and the barrel with one from my KoA 416D build coz running a MK18 is just cool. 

[C-Diddy]

2 minutes ago, gunbod007 said:

Yeah Tan PTS and Magpul stocks are they way to go. 

Don't man! I've bought so much stuff in the last month and am a couple of clicks away from getting one 😆 Do like the idea of tan stock, foregrip and magazines though. Time to grab a can of khaki paint!

[AlphaBear]

.

Deans mod for sure and then run a PTS enhanced polymer stock. Then you can stick in a 3000mah 7.4v battery and run it all weekend 

[C-Diddy]

3 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

.

Deans mod for sure and then run a PTS enhanced polymer stock. Then you can stick in a 3000mah 7.4v battery and run it all weekend 

Tempted with the Titan Li-Ion batteries

[AlphaBear]

11 minutes ago, C-Diddy said:

Tempted with the Titan Li-Ion batteries

They are a beast of a battery and they fit into the PTS enhanced stock. In fact you can fit them both into the stock and simply swap over half way during the day... although one should last for an average days play....

24 minutes ago, gunbod007 said:

Yeah Tan PTS and Magpul stocks are they way to go. 

Behold, 50 shades of tan!  

[C-Diddy]

1 minute ago, AlphaBear said:

They are a beast of a battery and they fit into the PTS enhanced stock. In fact you can fit them both into the stock and simply swap over half way during the day... although one should last for an average days play....

Yeah, it's definitely a future purchase...as is a tan PTS enhanced 😬 Bunch of fucking enablers on this forum!

[Adolf Hamster]

For cqb? I'd leave it stock (note in my book putting proper connectors on a gun doesnt count as a mod)

 

You dont need the range, so the usual low fps problems arent really a thing, and the stock accuracy for a tm should be more than up to the task.

 

You could make an argument for snappyness/trigger response but frankly if you can deal with that then no reason to mess around there.

 

There are reasons to tinker with pews, but unless your definition of cqb is radically different to mine then i cant see the need for expending the effort.

[gunbod007]

18 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

For cqb? I'd leave it stock (note in my book putting proper connectors on a gun doesnt count as a mod)

 

You dont need the range, so the usual low fps problems arent really a thing, and the stock accuracy for a tm should be more than up to the task.

 

You could make an argument for snappyness/trigger response but frankly if you can deal with that then no reason to mess around there.

 

There are reasons to tinker with pews, but unless your definition of cqb is radically different to mine then i cant see the need for expending the effort.

Good point. CQB is my closest site, literally the town I live in and so will probably be there a lot. But would get used in woodland a bit too if it is too cold for gas.

 

Yeah I think the rewiring is a must and im still tempted by the spring upgrade but to be honest I am pretty happy with leaving it closer to stock. 

 

It is definitely easy to get caught up thinking you need every mod money can buy when you start watching videos from the likes of the heresy group.

[rj1986]

As mentioned on the other thread, most of my NGRS are stock with the deans mod, or very minor upgrades.

I've got a camo upgraded mk18 (before they were cool) and am planning a 416 build as a treat to myself, followed by a recce build as it is being iffy and therefore has an excuse to be upgraded.

But i always take a standard (deans) M4 with me for security as i know if the mosfet or gears die, i have a stable, dependable platform to fall back on.

[Adolf Hamster]

9 hours ago, gunbod007 said:

Good point. CQB is my closest site, literally the town I live in and so will probably be there a lot. But would get used in woodland a bit too if it is too cold for gas.

 

Yeah I think the rewiring is a must and im still tempted by the spring upgrade but to be honest I am pretty happy with leaving it closer to stock. 

 

It is definitely easy to get caught up thinking you need every mod money can buy when you start watching videos from the likes of the heresy group.

 

the problem with tm's, is that they have a pretty high base level of performance for the energy they do, it can be improved upon (especially for outdoor on mainland limits) but if you don't need that extra performance such as in cqb then it's by far the easier option to settle for good enough and leave it stock.

 

for sure cqb is somewhere where player skill can be used to overcome pew performance.

[THE FNG]

If you're wanting an fps boost, I'd suggest the spring guide for a slight fps boost and a tightbore.

I've been experimenting recently with

Tbb's:

I have a tm aug high cycle and didnt want to destroy the tm magic but wanted an fps boost from it's out of the box 265-270.

It came with a stock barrel of 260mm. I swapped for a zci 340mm and got a 30fps boost; now chrome's 298-302.

If the mk18 has a 275mm standard barrel, you could potentially upgrade to similar barrel length based on the piston, just dont go over 350mm or you will need a different ported cylinder and that would mean gearbox work. I put a Prommy 363mm in my stock tm scar H, expecting a 20-30 fps boost and got no change at all, I beleive that's because the inner is too long for the piston and so there is a drag effect on the bbs and it negates the gained fps from the longer barrel.

 

In theory, new barrel and the spring guide could give you up to "not guaranteed" 20-30 fps boost that shouldn't add any stress on the gearbox. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong!

 

Tl;dr - I might not understand airsoft physics so ignore me!

[C-Diddy]

11 hours ago, gunbod007 said:

Good point. CQB is my closest site, literally the town I live in and so will probably be there a lot. But would get used in woodland a bit too if it is too cold for gas.

 

Yeah I think the rewiring is a must and im still tempted by the spring upgrade but to be honest I am pretty happy with leaving it closer to stock. 

 

It is definitely easy to get caught up thinking you need every mod money can buy when you start watching videos from the likes of the heresy group.

Mate, The Heresy Group! Fair play, do your own thing and if you want to take a £600 gun, rip everything out of it and spend a grand rebuilding it, go ahead. But if you go back to the Random Trashy days when Tim first got his TM 416 and listen to him saying how he's keeping it stock, the low FPS means nothing as range is still superb, it just goes to show what a fickle bunch us airsofters are 😆

 

 

[gunbod007]

27 minutes ago, C-Diddy said:

Mate, The Heresy Group! Fair play, do your own thing and if you want to take a £600 gun, rip everything out of it and spend a grand rebuilding it, go ahead. But if you go back to the Random Trashy days when Tim first got his TM 416 and listen to him saying how he's keeping it stock, the low FPS means nothing as range is still superb, it just goes to show what a fickle bunch us airsofters are 😆

 

 

Yep. spent about 30 mins on the phone with Eagle 6 and have decided on Deans plus a spring upgrade but that's it. I will run the gears until they die and then upgrade them to steel in a year or so.

[C-Diddy]

21 minutes ago, gunbod007 said:

Yep. spent about 30 mins on the phone with Eagle 6 and have decided on Deans plus a spring upgrade but that's it. I will run the gears until they die and then upgrade them to steel in a year or so.

That's fair enough and sensible I'd say.Do they provide pre and post work info on the FPS? Be interesting to see.

[AlphaBear]

19 minutes ago, gunbod007 said:

Yep. spent about 30 mins on the phone with Eagle 6 and have decided on Deans plus a spring upgrade but that's it. I will run the gears until they die and then upgrade them to steel in a year or so.

Don’t forget the spring guide, the piston return will be a snappier with that it and give you a few extra FPS to boost. 
 

Granted for 40m distances the stock Marui is fine as is. In fact it perfect and will lift 0.28 easily. It’s only in woodland when you have to compete with 1.14j pews over 60m it will struggle.