Non Chinese Manufacturers

[Jedi_Master]

2 hours ago, kasaran said:

'Given the human population is around 60 million, we actually outnumber rats by six to one.'

 

Source:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20716625

 

51 minutes ago, rocketdogbert said:

nope, still don’t, UK pop is 67M, China is 1.4B, where does 60 or rats come into it?

 

 

It is another BBC fluff piece from 2012; loose figures and since written the UK human population has increased from 60 million.  Of course there are also 2 legged rats, so in manchester you will be much closer to one  

[kasaran]

32 minutes ago, rocketdogbert said:

nope, still don’t, UK pop is 67M, China is 1.4B, where does 60 or rats come into it?

 

I could never be a teacher, I lack the patience and this, like a joke, should not have needed to be explained quite so many times.

 

From the begining, following from loz pointing out other evils...

 

I just wanted to play devils advocate and suggest that the one child policy was not evil, but a logical thing to do to help with over population.  

 

To bring that home, I regurgitated the statistic that I was told the other day and had to look up to believe.  The fact that the population here outnumbers rats, going against the old addage of never being more than a few feet from a rat.    The intention of this was to insinuate that this small island with constant housing shortages and lack of fundable pensions resulting in a retirement date akin to the life expectancy, might possibly be close to that point.  And perhaps the China solution would be the logical solution.  Or purge days.  Because thats a logical idea (the concept of those films are rediculous).

 

To be clear, I dont think that to be the case, again, I was just pointing out that there are far greater evils in the world than not allowing more than one child. 

 

Secondly, when doing things like this, I like to provide sources for claims such as this, because I have seen many arguments on the internet break down into one person claiming some deep insight into something and have no supporting evidence, reference the bio BB thread in general help I believe?

 

Anyway, I hope that has cleared it up, but I dont plan on trying to explain it again.  As its no longer funny and I am left wondering if I wasn't clear, you are trolling or i'm just making a reference that has gone over your head.  The wife does complain on occasion that I make obscure references to niche films, that as far as I was aware everyone would have seen.

 

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, kasaran said:

 

I could never be a teacher, I lack the patience and this, like a joke, should not have needed to be explained quite so many times.

 

From the begining, following from loz pointing out other evils...

 

I just wanted to play devils advocate and suggest that the one child policy was not evil, but a logical thing to do to help with over population.  

 

To bring that home, I regurgitated the statistic that I was told the other day and had to look up to believe.  The fact that the population here outnumbers rats, going against the old addage of never being more than a few feet from a rat.    The intention of this was to insinuate that this small island with constant housing shortages and lack of fundable pensions resulting in a retirement date akin to the life expectancy, might possibly be close to that point.  And perhaps the China solution would be the logical solution.  Or purge days.  Because thats a logical idea (the concept of those films are rediculous).

 

To be clear, I dont think that to be the case, again, I was just pointing out that there are far greater evils in the world than not allowing more than one child. 

 

Secondly, when doing things like this, I like to provide sources for claims such as this, because I have seen many arguments on the internet break down into one person claiming some deep insight into something and have no supporting evidence, reference the bio BB thread in general help I believe?

 

Anyway, I hope that has cleared it up, but I dont plan on trying to explain it again.  As its no longer funny and I am left wondering if I wasn't clear, you are trolling or i'm just making a reference that has gone over your head.  The wife does complain on occasion that I make obscure references to niche films, that as far as I was aware everyone would have seen.

 

 

As Sheldon says, jokes are always funnier when you explain them.

[Jedi_Master]

One unintended consequence of the china one child policy was that during its enforcement female babies were generally unwanted which in turn has led to a massive rise in the number of boys. So there are now lots of frustrated incels without the chance of getting a girlfriend or married. 

[Zarrin]

15 hours ago, Jedi_Master said:

One unintended consequence of the china one child policy was that during its enforcement female babies were generally unwanted which in turn has led to a massive rise in the number of boys. So there are now lots of frustrated incels without the chance of getting a girlfriend or married. 

 

A half Chinese/Brit student I was friendly with at uni told me that the one child policy had also resulted in a majority of Chinese kids being quite spoilt and contributed to a generally very unemphatic population. In my mind this actually makes a lot of sense - when you have siblings you learn an innate kind of social structure, how you treat other family members of approximately the same age, the whole give and take structure. But with one kid that is always gonna be tough, everything is far more singularly focused on them. And then you have an entire country where generation after generation is deprived of that vital stage in early learning. I find that quite scary, a billion odd people brought up to not really care about anyone else. 

I mean it's a tough one though - even with the the OCP, the mainland population hit over a billion people. Had their been no such policy I suppose you may have seen a completely unsustainable level in population growth which could have lead to disaster - one of the biggest and probably unsolvable famines the world would have ever seen. Damned if they do damned if they don't.

If anyone is interested in political and social situations in China, i recommend the Youtube channel ADVchina: https://www.youtube.com/user/churchillcustoms/featured
It's run by an American and South African duo who have both lived in China for most of the past decade or so, they also both have native Chinese wives. They seem pretty fair and give balanced arguments, though in the past couple of the years you can see the problems they encounter with Chinese govt have increased ten fold, to the point that I think neither of them actually live their any more. Anyway, very cool topical channel.. taught me loads I didn't know about China.

[Lozart]

9 hours ago, Zarrin said:

 

A half Chinese/Brit student I was friendly with at uni told me that the one child policy had also resulted in a majority of Chinese kids being quite spoilt and contributed to a generally very unemphatic population. In my mind this actually makes a lot of sense - when you have siblings you learn an innate kind of social structure, how you treat other family members of approximately the same age, the whole give and take structure. But with one kid that is always gonna be tough, everything is far more singularly focused on them. And then you have an entire country where generation after generation is deprived of that vital stage in early learning. I find that quite scary, a billion odd people brought up to not really care about anyone else. 

I mean it's a tough one though - even with the the OCP, the mainland population hit over a billion people. Had their been no such policy I suppose you may have seen a completely unsustainable level in population growth which could have lead to disaster - one of the biggest and probably unsolvable famines the world would have ever seen. Damned if they do damned if they don't I suppose.

If anyone is interested in political and social situations in China, i recommend the Youtube channel ADVchina: https://www.youtube.com/user/churchillcustoms/featured
It's run by an American and South African duo who have both lived in China for most of the past decade or so, they also both have native Chinese wives. They seem pretty fair and give balanced arguments, though in the past couple of the years you can see the problems they encounter with Chinese govt have increased ten fold, to the point that I think neither of them actually live their any more. Anyway, very cool topical channel.. taught me loads I didn't know about China.

 

From my time in China they very much care about family and the elderly. I was there over 20 years ago so the one child thing was still very much in place but several of the locals I worked with had siblings.

Granted I was there before the government cracked down on western influence but here's a fun stat from my time there - there's 18 MacDonalds restaurants in Beijing!

[Zarrin]

3 hours ago, Lozart said:

From my time in China they very much care about family and the elderly. I was there over 20 years ago so the one child thing was still very much in place but several of the locals I worked with had siblings.

 

Well that's good to hear, perhaps my uni friend's experience was more reflective of contemporary China, and equally maybe I cant attribute that characteristic to 'a majority' but more so an 'increasing number of...' people.
 

3 hours ago, Lozart said:

Granted I was there before the government cracked down on western influence but here's a fun stat from my time there - there's 18 MacDonalds restaurants in Beijing!

I see, that's actually surprising as from what I have understood, Beijing, at least these days, is sort of maintained as the cultural (and more recently communist) capital of China, supposedly kept a little more traditional but has a lot of communist statues and that type of thing.. freer of western influence as it were. I suppose though as it is also the tourism capital of China they need to provide amenities such as MacDonalds and other western outlets.   

Shanghai on the other hand seems very modern, stacks of skyscrapers and a lot of millionaires, possibly a little devoid of any real cultural or historical background, but good for business and that kinda thing. On a similar not Shenzhen is an interesting city, its only a few decades old and now is the production and commerce centre of the world - caters heavily to foreign travelers and investors.

 

To be honest I've wanted to visit China for a long time, but the recent trend reported of increasing hostility to foreigners has been off putting, not to mention all of the points mentioned time and time again in discussions and threads such as this one. Having said that I try to keep an open mind, I went to Iran in 2018 and that was nothing like I expected.. went in feeling very nervous about.. everything. Came back not knowing what all the fuss was about. People don't realise how powerful and real propoganda is until you can disprove it for yourself.
 

[Lozart]

21 hours ago, Zarrin said:

 

Well that's good to hear, perhaps my uni friend's experience was more reflective of contemporary China, and equally maybe I cant attribute that characteristic to 'a majority' but more so an 'increasing number of...' people.

 

 

Or maybe that was just one persons experience...

Quote

I see, that's actually surprising as from what I have understood, Beijing, at least these days, is sort of maintained as the cultural (and more recently communist) capital of China, supposedly kept a little more traditional but has a lot of communist statues and that type of thing.. freer of western influence as it were. I suppose though as it is also the tourism capital of China they need to provide amenities such as MacDonalds and other western outlets.   

Shanghai on the other hand seems very modern, stacks of skyscrapers and a lot of millionaires, possibly a little devoid of any real cultural or historical background, but good for business and that kinda thing. On a similar not Shenzhen is an interesting city, its only a few decades old and now is the production and commerce centre of the world - caters heavily to foreign travelers and investors.

 

To be honest I've wanted to visit China for a long time, but the recent trend reported of increasing hostility to foreigners has been off putting, not to mention all of the points mentioned time and time again in discussions and threads such as this one. Having said that I try to keep an open mind, I went to Iran in 2018 and that was nothing like I expected.. went in feeling very nervous about.. everything. Came back not knowing what all the fuss was about. People don't realise how powerful and real propoganda is until you can disprove it for yourself.

 

 

Beijing has always been the Communist seat of power. While I was there I went to Tienanmen Square and the offices of the various wings of the Communist Party surround it. Granted there was a bit of a crackdown not long after I left which sought to reestablish Chinese values and more traditional restaurants etc (for example the KFC next to the Temple of Heavenly Peace was replaced with a more traditional style place) but I cannot believe that the people themselves would be much different. Officials, yes. The population? No.

 

Shanghai has been around for a very long time! As for not having a historical or cultural background? Do some research  Officially it's been around since the 17th century but there's been significant settlements there as far back as the Qing dynasty.

 

Personally, I'd say go to China. I get the dilemma though, on the one hand there is a rich historical and cultural background to explore but on the other there's the human rights issues, political problems and widespread poverty. The people themselves though are just like anywhere else, they're just trying to get by and live their lives. Maybe don't spend too long in the major cities but definitely check out the places like Nanjing with some proper history!

[Zarrin]

5 hours ago, Lozart said:

Or maybe that was just one persons experience...

 

For sure, still makes it no less relevant... As some one who has been there, your own opinion, informed by experience is worth more than hearsay.

 

5 hours ago, Lozart said:

Shanghai has been around for a very long time! As for not having a historical or cultural background? Do some research  Officially it's been around since the 17th century but there's been significant settlements there as far back as the Qing dynasty.

 

Indeed, I'm aware that Shanghai has a long history - besides most modern cities do, they start off as small commerce spots or fishing villages on the coast as is the case with Shanghai, typically hundreds or thousands of years prior.

I was not suggesting Shanghai was similar to Milton Keynes or Shenzhen in origin (though even the latter has settlement history going back over a thousand years). My point really highlights how the government has managed or maintained both the cultural heritage and image of their cities.

 

During the communist revolution following WWII and even more so in the cultural revolution in the 60s, a lot of old Buddhist and other cultural heritage sites were destroyed - In Shanghai from what I understand there was a concerted effort to rip up older traditional streets and modernise everything - now this of course is not entirely fair as a stand alone point as that is basically how cities work, without this process we wouldn't have any modern infrastructure and would still have cobble stone roads, but if you take somewhere like London as an example, arguably the greatest city in the world for so many reasons, the national heritage trust has gone out of it's way to ensure that important pieces of history are maintained, and that is not limited to massive landmarks such as the Tower of London, Tower Bridge and the houses of parliament; but includes little ally ways and cobble stone back streets that carry great weight, atmosphere and our cultrual heritage. The thing is, during the cultural revolution in China, their aim was in fact to eliminate all trace of certain older traditional and cultural aspects.

 

That's what I meant by "possibly a little devoid of any real cultural or historical background" - perhaps, that was unfair on its own and a little more context was required behind that statement. Having said that... as mentioned I've never been to China, I've read, watched and tried to be as informed as possible on certain matters, I hope to be proved as wrong as possible, I hope there are still loads of ancient untouched back streets in old Shanghai which survived the cultural purge; it's tragic when our ancient histories get erased by the current powers that be or fanatics like the Taliban with those Buddha statues in Afghanistan, ISIS in Syria or even Alexander the Great with Persepolis (an ancient event in itself).

 

5 hours ago, Lozart said:

Personally, I'd say go to China. I get the dilemma though, on the one hand there is a rich historical and cultural background to explore but on the other there's the human rights issues, political problems and widespread poverty. The people themselves though are just like anywhere else, they're just trying to get by and live their lives. Maybe don't spend too long in the major cities but definitely check out the places like Nanjing with some proper history!

 

Yeah I would like to very much, and with me curiosity usually wins over, so suffice is to say.. one day. I would love to see the incredible geological mountain, hill top structures in Guilin province.. it's been on my bucket list of places for years. 
That's a good point you raise, it's easy to bundle people in with their respective leaders or governments, and there may be a few cultural differences here and there that might make us go 'err what!?', but ultimately people are all just that, trying to put food on the table, look after their family, get an education etc etc...