How do Fields Chrono My Gun?

[BudgetMilsimPlayer]

I have bought a new ICS carbine and i was wondering how fields would chrono it. Do they give you .20g bbs or do they just take your word that you have them loaded in your gun?

[Sitting Duck]

bit of both - depends on site how strict they are...

 

One or two sites were a bit lapse in chronoing any/most guns

(avoid sites like these - if they can't be arsed to chrono I can't be arsed to support them)

 

Others ask you what weight you are using, often to regular players but will chrono fully on 0.20's at any point if they suspect you cheated the chrono, followed by a ban etc....

Not the strictest chrono, but better than no chrono - though it is based on trust & I trust very few people

 

Others like the Mall took no chances for anybody, had their mags for most regular guns filled with 0.20's

and on the odd occasion - say pistols or less popular guns, they drop a few of your bb's

then loaded some of their own 0.20's in mag to chrono it knowing for sure what it shoots on 0.20's

 

Sites "should" chrono properly, but not all fully ensure & check for certain every bb is what it is supposed to be

 

Stuff like ICS & G&G's from UK retailers "usually" come in about 330fps out of box

it is the imported China guns, or guns destined for non-UK sites like US that fire 370~400fps on m120 springs say

 

Your ICS if bought from a reputable UK retailer should be about 330fps for UK market

and should have been tested/chrono'd prior to you receiving it, so you "should" be OK at chrono

(site depending)

 

Unless you changed stuff, which case you should have your own chrono or access to one

(ensures the gun is 330~350fps compliant and you don't get refused play due to a hot gun)

[Adolf Hamster]

it's somewhat variable and a lot of it depends on the individual site. in a lot of cases there can be some fundamental misunderstanding of how kinetic energy works which can cause issues and some sites can be stricter than others with their interpretation, for example some sites don't chrono handguns, others only chrono co2 handguns, others will chrono everything and anything that's 1fps over on site ammo with the hop turned off isn't allowed to play.

 

the most common method is the site will put some .2g's in the mag then chrono on that, it's a simple system and effective for aeg's and the like. although it can fall apart for some systems like gbb's or hpa's where a gun can chrono just fine yet when the user drops in their preferred heavier weight game ammo the power can jump quite a significant amount (aka joule creep), which the user could be completely unaware of.

 

the answer to joule creep is to chrono on the weight of ammo that the player uses in the game, at least the energy reading will be right. of course it opens up the problem that someone can lie about what weight they're using (saying for example they're using .2's when they actually have .4's loaded in the gun).

 

there's arguments to and for both sides, personally i prefer the latter style because at least it requires cheaters to straight up lie when it comes to the chrono.

 

as for keeping your own gun kosher, well the best way is to ensure that you're completely honest when it comes to the chrono, be clear and truthful about whatever weight of ammo you're running and as duck says if you get into modifying  your gun then investing in your own chronograph to check prior to game day. whilst there is a logic for trying to get every last scrap of energy possible within the allowed limit it's a lost effort if the site's chrono reads slightly differently and they decide not to let you on, so being slightly under will at least guarantee you'll get to play even at the strictest sites.

[Skara]

I have had an interesting "accident" during chrono in one of our tournaments.

 

Gun set up to fire 0.99j on 0.25s, using my trusty Lonex Mags (the metal ones, as the fancy polymers don't fit Ares Amoebas), zero joule creep so it fires 0.99J too on 0.2s.

 

The guys at the chrono used their own mags (Ares Amoeba plastic high caps) and while with mine the gun was doing 0.99, with theirs it dropped to 0.65 or something.

 

I believe it was because their mag was pushing the hop unit away from the nozzle, causing a leak.

 

Now, it's no big deal as you can always use your mag and their bbs to ensure the reading is consistent with what your gun will actually put out in the field.

 

 

Also agree with Adolf, chronoing with game weight is still the best way, as it reads the actual energy output (measured in J is best, but printing a conversion chart isn't exactly rocket science either).

 

And yes, invest some beer tokens in a chrono so you can check at home after you've worked on your guns

[Zarrin]

41 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

as duck says if you get into modifying  your gun then investing in your own chronograph to check prior to game day. whilst there is a logic for trying to get every last scrap of energy possible within the allowed limit it's a lost effort if the site's chrono reads slightly differently and they decide not to let you on, so being slightly under will at least guarantee you'll get to play even at the strictest sites.

 

Always strikes me as odd when people make mods with the intention of hitting a specific fps target and don't actually own a chrono to test the effectiveness of their work; I would find that unbearably frustrating. 

You can't just bang an m105/110 in there and assume you are at the mark - and no a coke can is not an effective chrono 

[Adolf Hamster]

2 minutes ago, Skara said:

I have had an interesting "accident" during chrono in one of our tournaments.

 

Gun set up to fire 0.99j on 0.25s, using my trusty Lonex Mags (the metal ones, as the fancy polymers don't fit Ares Amoebas), zero joule creep so it fires 0.99J too on 0.2s.

 

The guys at the chrono used their own mags (Ares Amoeba plastic high caps) and while with mine the gun was doing 0.99, with theirs it dropped to 0.65 or something.

 

I believe it was because their mag was pushing the hop unit away from the nozzle, causing a leak.

 

me m4 used to do that, first 10 or so rounds out of a midcap would really struggle to even leave the barrel. i always suspected the pressure on the nozzle was stopping it coming all the way home.

 

2 minutes ago, Skara said:

Also agree with Adolf, chronoing with game weight is still the best way, as it reads the actual energy output (measured in J is best, but printing a conversion chart isn't exactly rocket science either).

 

And yes, invest some beer tokens in a chrono so you can check at home after you've worked on your guns

 

the common one i see still today is this whole confusion between fps and energy, a chrono will read an fps figure and setting it to a given bb weight doesn't change what the fps figure is, only what the calculated energy is. so it's not like you need to re-program the chrono for every different bb weight, you just need a strip printed with the correct fps numbers for different ammo weights according to the site's joule limit.

 

of course you still see sites that don't twig that x fps on an 0.2g isn't the same thing as the same fps on an 0.4g.....

 

Just now, Zarrin said:

 

Always strikes me as odd when people make mods with the intention of hitting a specific fps target and don't actually own a chrono to test the effectiveness of their work; I would find that unbearably frustrating. 

You cant just bang an m105/110 in there and assume you are at the mark.

 

tell me about it, when you drop an "m95" spring into a gun and it chrono's like an M140 and you're sitting there like "dafuq!?"

[Zarrin]

15 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

tell me about it, when you drop an "m95" spring into a gun and it chrono's like an M140 and you're sitting there like "dafuq!?"

 

Yeah I had this with the M16A2 a couple months ago, SHS m110 doing 460 if I remember correctly - I diagnosed it all using another guns spring, I cant remember now if I found it to be a mislabeled spring or just ridiculous air seal, possibly bit of both.  

 

Point in case, that would have been a disappointment and shock turning up to a game and getting that reading when I was expecting 350-60.

[Adolf Hamster]

20 minutes ago, Zarrin said:

 

Yeah I had this with the M16A2 a couple months ago, SHS m110 doing 460 if I remember correctly - I diagnosed it all using another guns spring, I cant remember now if I found it to be a mislabeled spring or just ridiculous air seal, possibly bit of both.  

 

Point in case, that would have been a disappointment and shock turning up to a game and getting that reading when I was expecting 350-60.

 

i suspect mis-labeled springs is the big one.

 

same as ammo, eg 0.2g is only a nominal value so if for example it's actually 0.19g then it'll chrono slightly higher.

 

there's also the air-seal, always good to have a known spring on-hand so you can establish whether the spring you're trying to use is weak or it's just bad air seal.

[Zarrin]

47 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

there's also the air-seal, always good to have a known spring on-hand so you can establish whether the spring you're trying to use is weak or it's just bad air seal.

 

Well that essentially relates to a project I am working on at the moment - I have a box of probably 20 or more AEG springs that have accumulated over the years, 3 or 4 of them are labeled but I haven't got a clue what the rest are, other than they are either very soft, some where in the middle or pretty stiff 😐. 

 

I recently bought my first V2 QD shell, which i'll swap out with the standard shell in the MP5, my only AEG that grants me access to the QD spring guide without removing the GB from the lower receiver.

 

Once that build is complete I need to establish some baselines with a handful of tested and labeled springs; then I should be able to process that box of springs and identify their ratings! 

[Adolf Hamster]

30 minutes ago, Zarrin said:

 

Well that essentially relates to a project I am working on at the moment - I have a box of probably 20 or more AEG springs that have accumulated over the years, 3 or 4 of them are labeled but I haven't got a clue what the rest are, other than they are either very soft, some where in the middle or pretty stiff 😐. 

 

I recently bought my first V2 QD shell, which i'll swap out with the standard shell in the MP5, my only AEG that grants me access to the QD spring guide without removing the GB from the lower receiver.

 

Once that build is complete I need to establish some baselines with a handful of tested and labeled springs; then I should be able to process that box of springs and identify their ratings! 

 

tbh i havent got around to that just yet, although i do have a cable tie system for ones i know are weak.

[BigStew]

The site I marshal at we have a cheat card with energy levels for the different weights of BBs.

[Zarrin]

39 minutes ago, BigStew said:

The site I marshal at we have a cheat card with energy levels for the different weights of BBs.

 

I have something like this too - I keep a file on my phone with notes, specs and work done/needed - comes in handy and helps me keep track of stuff.

 

[BigStew]

40 minutes ago, Zarrin said:

 

I have something like this too - I keep a file on my phone with notes, specs and work done/needed - comes in handy and helps me keep track of stuff.

 

very good we have joules now got rid of the fps ones