Bullpup AEG?

[Hoozy]

Looking at buying a bullpup style rifle, the AUG specifically as it’s been recommended by other users. 

Does anyone recommend a specific model or have any experience with these guns? 

[Dentonboy]

Had a Classic Army V1 which was great. 

Very nice to hold, comfortable and fairly light too. 

[Iceni]

Love my AUG's.

There are 3 manufacturers regardless of branding.

JG, APS, TM. Everything out there new atm is one of these 3. TM will always be branded as a TM. APS can be identified by the externals. They have a raised area on the pistol grip and stock with a texture. JG just have an all over texture and no raised areas.

All 3 brands have near identical external quality. APS seem to have the better A1 foregrip over JG, but JG have a slightly nicer trigger.

Internally it's different.

APS guns all have quick change springs. You will find any AUG marketed with a QC spring is probably an APS rebrand. They ship with 7mm bearings as standard, 400fps unless downgraded. Everything else is stock.

JG have a good strong shell, And the rear of the shell not having the QC system means it is more capable for DMR style upgrades. Bearings in a JG are rebrander specific, and can range from Nylon bushes to bearings. Most are 7mm. Fps can also have a big range. Everything else is stock, but some rebranders add a fet.

TM have a low FPS high cycle gearbox. It's best not to mess with these because they work well out of the box.



Models wise the A1 is the classic built in scope is normally 1.5x and can be adjusted. Aps have some added rails, but these are at funky angles and are not really useful.

The A2 has a high rail and works with most scopes, APS again add some extra rails that you can't really use for much.

The A3 looks nothing like a real steel A3. It's heavy. If you want the A3 style you are better off looking at the Commando style variants IMO. The A3 also looses the quick barrel swap system. You can still split the upper from the lower, but to remove the inner barrel to remove the hop unit you need to remove the RIS. The weight is still not a dealbreaker if you love the style, but it doesn't feel as pointable as the other models.

Commando. A new ish model. It has a lower real steel style a3 rail, a short lower rail for a grip. It is probably the best all round AUG variant ATM, Offering the best rail layout, without the compromises that the A3 has. The short commando still has a respectable barrel length 320mm as well.


Mags are very compatible from all brands, Even the cheap mags feed well. I have a selection in my collection, TM, JG, APS, MAG, Battleaxe. None feed badly. All have the same external quality. With a nod to MAG because the 170rnd mid caps are by far my favourite.


Problems that AUGs develop.

Airseal. It's not hard to get right, but it can be frustrating. The gearbox floats a little in the shell and can be out of alignment. The hop can be too tight on it's fixing screws and not be pushing back hard enough. There is a plastic hop spacer that moves a little and can push the hop forward if not correctly installed. When you split the gun you have to understand these parts and know how all of them interact. It's a source of endless frustration to have a great box on the perfect hop, but loose airseal because you put a screw that is slightly too long in the hop fixing and now it's not moving back far enough!

Trigger. It can be hard to get the trigger right. It the contact points for full auto are too far forwards you may get only full auto. It's a positional balance, Again not hard to get right, but it takes a little time to figure out why you have a problem.

Noise. Augs are damn noisy. You rest you chin directly over the cylinder head, you will feel and hear every shot at 110db. Silent upgrades suit the AUG, So too does packing foam into the hollow body to reduce vibration and noise transfer. A few hours spend making the gun quiet to the shooter will give you a gun that is almost silent on the field. My A3 is a good example of this, It's quiet enough that you can't hear it downstairs in the house.


Overall I love the AUG. It's a cheap platform, It has a few flaws none are fatal. The plastic parts are durable, the mags feed well. All AUG's have the potential to be very good, but getting them there is a love of labour, and can cost almost as much as the base gun in upgrades.

The biggest selling point of the AUG is the ergonomics. It's a very comfortable gun, well balanced, Points well, Fast on target, and can be held on target easily. It's this that is the real selling point of the platform because it's a very natural feeling gun to shoot.

 

[Gepard]

The ICS L85 is an excellent bullpup AEG. Whilst it's no AUG it shares some traits and is worth looking into. 

[Hoozy]

Wow Iceni, that should be stickied!! Thanks for the really top notch information. 

I do like the look of the commando, but does the shorter barrel length affect the performance in any way when compared to the other models which seem to be a good 200mm longer?

Edit: I should also mention that my budget is £200 for the rifle itself!

[Hangtight]

300mm is about the ideal length for an Airsoft barrel.

[Hoozy]

I play solely in large outdoor sites, and will be fitting a 3-9x scope. So a good range/accuracy is a must have. The shorter barrel won’t affect this?

[Josh95]

20 minutes ago, Hoozy said:

I play solely in large outdoor sites, and will be fitting a 3-9x scope. So a good range/accuracy is a must have. The shorter barrel won’t affect this?

not really, barrel length isnt that important. hopup is where you get range/accuracy 

[Hoozy]

Thank you! So the commando model with a hop upgrade sounds like it should be a nice long ranged assault rifle?

[Iceni]

The shorter barrel isn't going to be a problem at all. In fact it'll be an advantage in lots of situations where you can be closer to cover, or change shooting direction without needing to do gun gymnastics.

Hop and the inner barrel finish and diameter affect range and accuracy. The APS inner barrels and hop setup out of the box is pretty good TBF. So put at least 10,000 BB's through the gun before you decide that you need to tweak things.

Gunfire corp have a re-branded APS commando without trades. It's identical to the ASG just without the fancy paint job, and trades. It will need downgrading to 350fps, but GFC can do that on request.

https://gunfire.pl/product-eng-1152216088-GFG54-carbine-replica-black.html

https://gunfire.pl/product-eng-1152216089-GFG54-carbine-replica-tan.html

If you get the postage over €225 (£200) you get free postage. Think nice gun bag, sling, charger, Mags if they have stock.

I also wouldn't upgrade the hop. I have a few AUG hops and the plastic stock one is very good. Once you have put some serious BB's through it then think about flat hopping it and making a new arm but out of the box the APS guns are decent enough.

GFC downgrade service.

https://gunfire.pl/product-eng-1152197807-Free-electric-replica-downgrade.html

The only thing the GFC doesn't have is a battery. The battery that ASG supply isn't up to much either. It's an 8.4v NiMh.

It may also not have a foregrip, There isn't one in the description for the GFC commando, so you might want to add one just to be on the safe side.

Component shop can do batteries at a great price. And the ones I use in my augs are these.

https://www.componentshop.co.uk/7-4v-2200mah-30c-continuous-discharge-airsoft-lipo-battery.html

They fit the battery compartment perfectly, and you will have to do a little wire gymnastics with the fuse.

[Hoozy]

Thank you for your advice, I think i’ll go for the commando as you’ve suggested. Not to mention it does have the best aesthetics imo 

Would you recommend the website you linked or are there others you use? 

[L3wisD]

@Hoozy someone is selling a nice looking commando over in the classifieds

 

 

Maybe ask @Iceni to give it a thumbs up/down for you.

[Iceni]

Without seeing the internals, and how well it shoots I can't. The upgrades look right and the package is good.

The problem with second hand is there is a lot can be wrong, And that particular one has been ripped to bits and put back together. There is a lot of investment in that sale so to be selling it after 2 shoots suggests to me either a situation change, or the upgrades didn't have the desired effect. If it's the latter then to get it right might take a lot of work and fault correction.

Things to look for would be poor shimming, Noisy motors (Often suggestive of wire that is too thick), Cracked magwell front plate (caused by overshimming the gearbox), Dirty solder joints, Tight hop (doesn't move forwards and backwards on the spring, suggestive of incorrect hop installation), Poor feeding (airseal nozzle too short, It's a common fault with after market airseal nozzles), Stripped threads on butt plate screws. None of the faults are dealbreakers but correcting someone else's mistakes on a gun that needs building with a lot of care is harder than you imagine.

Personally I'd buy new, so you start with a clean gun, Use it, Then after you have used it and seen what you want or need start a slow modification process aiming for silent and accurate with higher midrange speed 20+rps, Going flat out high speed without the consideration for noise would be an un-enjoyable experience for the shooter IMO.

GFC are a decent company to deal with. Use the UPS shipping and it'll be at your door fully tracked in a few days, My last gun order with them took 6 I think. Just be sure to add your UKARA to the shipping and special information on the order sheet. The company ships from Poland, and you will have no additional charges from customs ect.

[Hangtight]

A 3-9 scope will drive you up the wall in woodland. Unless it is quite an expensive one then the sight image will be fairly dark with a narrow field of view when you need exactly the opposite. And even 3x is too high at Airsoft ranges. If you want a scope then https://www.opticswarehouse.co.uk/product/bsa-advanced-1-4x24-illuminated-center-dot-riflescope/ is perfect for Airsoft. Wide, bright field of view and the low magnification means it can be used like a red dot, or turn the magnification up if you want.

[Hoozy]

I might rethink my choice of scope then. 1-4x was what I originally wanted but they seem to be more expensive than other magnifications

I’ve found an AEG I really like the look of and wanted someone with more experience to look it over and see if it’s a good deal? 

http://www.patrolbase.co.uk/airsoft-bulpup-guns/jing-gong-jg-0447a-au-4g-aug-bullpup-aeg-black.htm#.WqHceXCnzDv

 

EDIT: The scope I was looking at was this. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01MZ2JM5R/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1520475444&sr=8-2-spons&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=pinty+scope&psc=1

[Iceni]

It's an A3 model.

JG make it and there is an ASG rebrand with trades.

http://www.patrolbase.co.uk/airsoft-bulpup-guns/asg-steyr-aug-a3-mp-proline-tan.htm#.WqSeV3xpHZI

It's the heaviest of the aug variants, Still useable but not as pointable as the lighter ones. You need 2 allen keys to remove the RIS to remove the barrel and hop. By pointable I mean the weight distribution is further forwards, meaning you have to turn and find targets slower as the forwards weight carries more inertia and will overshoot and need pulling back on target.

There appear to be at least 2 variations on that model. Mine is an older ASG sportline (jg), The newer ASG proline might have better stock internals as its APS,  the proline is also featuring a QC spring, and should have bearings (7mm).

Just be aware when you pick one up that the JG stock internals are basic unless stated otherwise.

The model I have (JG) came with nylon gearbox bushings (7mm), no QC spring, a low end motor (15rps), Stock wire with no Mosfet. Cheap spring guide (plastic).

Mine has been modified quite a lot, Silent heads, solid brass spring guide, ASG 35K motor, Gate nanohard mosfet, CNC hop, 6.03 barrel (455mm), Silver wire loom, Solid bushings. At least £150 in upgrades probably more. It does shoot well and is as durable as any other AUG model. This gun is old enough that the bushings needed replacing hence the upgrades. The CNC hop wasn't needed, and I regularly swap between it and the plastic stock one. Both hop equally well but I had money to burn.

The APS in contrast having the bearings and QC spring will not need the gearbox opening as soon. Because you can change the FPS and motor without needing to open the gearbox. You can also wire any of the V3 gearboxes to mosfets without needing to open them (the contacts are on the outside of the gearbox). It's a painless experience and there are plenty of threads regarding V3 aug mosfet installation (it's slightly different to AK's because of the double contacts). My APS gun currently has no upgrades as it's still bedding in, It shoots well, It doesn't have the RPS or silence of the upgraded gun, but the range and accuracy stock are still good.

I use a walther ps22 scope on the A3, There are many clones of that style optic, and the mount flows very nicely with near perfect angles to the ones on the gun.

I can't fault the A3 variant other than the weight, and the need for more tools to remove the inner barrel/hop. The ASG proline also has an extended inner barrel 520mm that puts it well into the under volumed region (2.01:1) for a non ported cylinder, the 509mm stock JG one is also  under volumed (2.05:1)

DSC00427 by B N, on Flickr

[Hoozy]

Just an update, i’ve played one day with this gun and am really happy with my purchase.

Only problem is that when I tested out the disassemble latch, it popped straight out. Now i’ve got a gun in two halves and it won’t go back together. So frustrated. Please help!

[Iceni]

You didn't loose the sprung bar did you??

Sprung bar goes in first, If it's already in don't remove it. The bar sits on 2 very small lips in the pin hole (not on the outside of the body).

With the gun dissasembled:

Work from the Right (if the gun is pointing away from you).

There is a slot cut into the pin, Feed the pin so the slot goes in first. Use a screwdriver to hold the pin down. (insert from the hole where the upper sits).

Feel it through to the other side.

Once it's in correctly, push the pin from the left side of the gun, It should lock onto a dendent after about 10mm of travel. It should also remain locked level in this position. If it isn't the sprung bar isn't in correctly.

With the bar in this position (10mm in from left) you can slide on the upper. The upper needs to be fed onto the lower, be gentle there is an airseal nozzle you don't want to break. A gentle wiggle with the correct angle and it'll fall into place. You then push the upper fully back (you will feel the hop spring compress) and slide the pin from right to left to lock it all in place.


The reason the pin popped out in the first place is you pushed it from the wrong side. It only works in 1 direction, if you push it 10mm in the wrong direction the gun won't split at the dendent, then you push the pin further and it pops out of the body! Rule of augs is if the pin doesn't release the upper when pushed to the dendent, try the other way rather than push it further!
 

[Hoozy]

Thank you, you’re a lifesaver  

/sigh

 

One happy airsofter! 

[Iceni]

Pictures or it didn't happen

I also want to see what gun you went for in the end!

Also, how was the shoot? what batteries did you use? And did it do everything you wanted it to do?

[Hoozy]

Thankfully I didn’t lose or break anything 

Just ordered a 2-7x scope, if I don’t like it I can always stick my old trusty red dot on!

JG Au-4G

[Hoozy]

I got a ‘vp racing battery’ it’s a 1600mAh 8.4V Ni-MH. 

Worked like a dream, the range and accuracy really surprised me. Too used to a beat up old Cyma m4 

I also bought a foregrip, not realising it came with a better quality one in the box!

Patrol Base tested it before they sent it and said it’s at 320fps, but when I tested it myself it’s at 280 fps.. not sure what that’s about.. 

I understand what you mean about how noisy these guns are now!!

[Iceni]

It's the same model as my ASG A3 sportsline.

Check the body nut and bolts.

The one on the magwell needs a dab of blue threadlock, That screw doesn't want to be tight because it  will stop the mag release working. So the threadlock is to stop the bolt and nut falling out after multiple mag releases!

The other 2 bolts at the rear of the stock can be done to a reasonable tightness, or you can blue threadlock them. Just be aware the bottom screw needs to be removed sometimes to help getting the gearbox out.

Lube the trigger plate. Its easy to get to when you split the body. A couple of dabs of oil under the sliding plate, and give the trigger a good 50 pulls, then wipe it off. It'll make the trigger nicer.
Don't remove the plate thinking it will be easier to oil! As there are 2 springs, and 2 ball bearings that will come flying at your face and those parts are hard to find when they go flying, and need 6 pairs of hands to get back in!

Did you use .25g BB's? That would account for the FPS difference. The stock 320fps would have been with 0.2g BB's

Yeah damn noisy! But once it's ready for upgrades after a year or so you can invest in making it silent! And then they shine!

[Hoozy]

Bolts and screws all seem exactly as you suggested! 

I will have to lube the trigger though because it is pretty stiff. What lubrication would work? Just wd-40 or something like a mineral oil? 

Both tests were with .2g BB’s, i’ll get it tested again this Sunday with a chrono I trust more 

[Iceni]

Light oil would be fine, I have some silicone/ptfe combo oil I got from ebay that does mine rather well It's not expensive either.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FINE-SYNTHETIC-LUBRICATING-OIL-WITH-PTFE-100-ml/391998802450?epid=1540365687&hash=item5b44f30a12:g:vBcAAOSwrPZZxsWG

 

As for the FPS, get it tested again first. If it's still low contact patrol base but make sure the BB's are correct at chrono. I've never bought from them so I don't know how they will act in this situation. There's no point speculating until you have the figures. If it's shooting well then at least you know you will have a good days shoot regardless.