Hangtight Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 What it says on the tin. I had a measure and it'll fit. The high capacity (2400mah) Sony ones have a Sony published 40A discharge voltage graph. The 3400mah Samsung ones are supposed to be good for 25A continuous. And the best bit is I can buy 4 for about the same as a 1450mah buffer tube lipo. Anyone done anything similar, or am I blazing a trail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Sitting Duck Posted March 30, 2017 Supporters Share Posted March 30, 2017 would of thought this would of been hard to beat: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-nano-tech-1400mah-2s-15-25c-lipo-airsoft-pack.html or https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-nano-tech-1200mah-2s-25-50c-lipo-airsoft-pack.html ahh wtf check out this and see what is UK or EU... https://hobbyking.com/en_us/batteries/airsoft.html UK has certain postal shipping prices depending weight but EU/Netherlands seem to have same shipping structure if you buy a couple or 200 batteries ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 Those are better prices than what I paid for the Nuprol 1450mah ones I'm using now (which hit the cliff after about 1000mah). The Samsung ones actually measure at the stated capacity so I'm looking at twice the capacity for the sake of a bit of twatting around with heatshrink. My only concern is I don't know how much current pull a ASG CNC 30k pushing 13:1 gears and a M100 spring generates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Sitting Duck Posted March 30, 2017 Supporters Share Posted March 30, 2017 21 minutes ago, Hangtight said: My only concern is I don't know how much current pull a ASG CNC 30k pushing 13:1 gears and a M100 spring generates. Find out - this is the same mofo bad boy I use: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Watt-Meter-Balancer-Digital-60V-100A-Voltage-Power-Analyzer-Tester-UK-B0F8-/172404167726?hash=item282416d42e:g:MD4AAOSwB09YJBnZ plug it in between ya gun & 7.4v lipo - fire on auto for a short burst noting the amps (it doesn't stay on screen - starting amps is a bit higher but should get a constant reading very soon once gun is cycling on auto. Obviosly it drops to zilch once gun stops but you get the idea) there are others a bit cheaper but this comes with deans n crap ready to go suppose this will do: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-LCD-60V-100A-Watt-Meter-Battery-Balance-Power-Voltage-Checker-Analyzer/401185896860?_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40656%26meid%3D96e37bfceeaa43b5883f7beea2e3e003%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D172404167726 but add your own male/female deans & wait for it to arrive from China yes you can use a loop type amp meter or tester I guess but they ain't cheap rough guess on a 30k & 13:1 maybe 21 amps but who knows if my meter motors n setup is pulling the exact same spring etc... plus my high quality meter could be way way way out of whack I just use it to confirm stuff when fine tuning motor height by ear/meter as well as hopefully getting my shimming height correct (or as near as I possibly can within some reason - not drilling loads of holes or take it to engineering lab or stuff like that) 21 minutes ago, Hangtight said: Those are better prices than what I paid for the Nuprol 1450mah ones I'm using now (which hit the cliff after about 1000mah). Just make sure you try to order from either UK or EU very easy to screw up and inadvertently order from Hong Kong instead Then wonder where the f*ck are those lipo's - ooooh crap hope I don't get hit with import duty too (I have done this once - dohhhhh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 SOLD! Anything that helps take the guess work out is a good idea. I take it with motor height tuning you're simply looking for the lowest current draw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Sitting Duck Posted March 30, 2017 Supporters Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Hangtight said: SOLD! Anything that helps take the guess work out is a good idea. I take it with motor height tuning you're simply looking for the lowest current draw? Indeed - well in theory.... Some have said when wild guessing the height just by ear they found there have been 2 "sweet spots" but can't see that, but they noted one sweet spot sounded good but amps was high The second sweet spot sounded great too but amps quite a bit lower Maybe a badly suited bevel/pinion was meshing sweet a little too high/low Should check then pinions and bevel more closely I think - jeez some of them mesh f*cking badly (my thoughts you should only be guessing stuff like bevel height if you are a Vulcan coz Mr Spock's guesses are $hit hot) The point is you have a pretty good idea the motor height is correct or nigh on However which way to do the shimming - you got a pretty good idea that motor height & bevel height is correct Then 1/4 turn left or right to fine tune it "should" produce a better/worse sound or less shrill So in theory - which I feel does correlate if the gears are meshing correctly & smoothly The smooth gears meshing correctly produce less friction & shrill which in turn draws less amps Less amps or current draw means stuff runs cooler and your battery will last last longer Plus should be running at its fastest possible speed/rof if there is less friction too Gun should perhaps last longer I guess though I'm not offering no lifetime guarantee crap But it "should" just cycle more efficiently in all aspects of the drive chain (maybe sounds a bit tarty but I think; " Every little helps " as Tesco say) Whack in a high speed motor over a torque or balanced motor and you really see amps ramp up as well as stuff gets warm Bad shimming does the same thing too making stuff run hot & fuses blow etc.... I don't think for one sec that amps are everything - but being sure the height is correct to begin with THEN both sound & amps can help fine tune the tiny tweak on motor plate just a smidge (young people look at you weirdly when you say the machine/car/gun is talking to you) If it still sounds & runs crap with high amps then that is the motor angle (often that can happen when people change M4 grips for a crappy snide ACM grip) best grips for angles usually end up being the ones that came with the gun some aftermarket ones can be f*cking dire I have found Ooops - wall of text again sorry, you know this already, my bad Ergh yeah lower amps usually goes hand in hand with a sweet bit of shimming - motor height or drive chain BTW for what it is worth, I am no expert but watching really clever bastids like Rogers helps a lot TBH - sod going into as seriously deep as he does, I don't fully agree with everything he does BUT - he really covers everything nigh on and if we can get boxes just half as smooth as his well I think we have done alright & if on the odd occasion I get near 75% of his smoothness Well I'm very very happy. Think only the original James Bond could be smoother.... (soz but I just love this repost) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 This idea has legs! I've measured the current draw of two different AEGs. One is an ASG CNC 30k pulling an M100 through 13:1 gears... 19.5A. The other is a Lonex A1 Supreme pulling an M110 on 18:1 gears... 18.8A. Samsung 25R 2500mah cells have a maximum continuous discharge of 22A with a 35A peak, which means I can build a 2500mah pack that fits in the buffer tube for around a tenner, including the connector for the balance circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Lozart Posted April 3, 2017 Supporters Share Posted April 3, 2017 ANy idea what the C rating on your 18650 cells is? Most I've seen are too low to really be viable as an airsoft battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 http://batteriesplus.co.uk/acatalog/Samsung-25R-Green-Li-Ion-18650-Rechargeable-Battery---3.7-V-2500-mAh-Lithium-cell-1955.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 Even more promising are the new 21700 cells that tesla /Panasonic and Samsung are just starting production of. 5500+mah and discharge rates that are suited to electric vehicle use along with rapid charge capability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Sitting Duck Posted April 3, 2017 Supporters Share Posted April 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Hangtight said: One is an ASG CNC 30k pulling an M100 through 13:1 gears... 19.5A. Quote rough guess on a 30k & 13:1 maybe 21 amps but who knows if my meter motors n setup is pulling the exact same spring etc... Wasn't a bad guess eh ? Each build is slightly slightly different, spring & barrel length, bearings, bushings shimming etc... plus motors etc.... You using a 30k motor, so to me is slight quicker balanced type motor SHS Torque is a balanced motor really which output seems to be between 26k & 29k depending on source (I'll go with an average 27.5k I guess) Then you got Krytac's 20k & 30k motors etc.... Your Lonex A1+ is a quicker motor pulling similar amps on modest std 18:1 gears On a lamer stock motor you would be drawing say only 13 amps or the Lonex on 12:1 gears 24 amps & getting warm The amps in ya gun sound about right to me indicating shimming is good etc... (not that I doubted you for a sec) Anyway, Amps aside - I have slight reservations as to if these batteries will provide the raw grunt anything like LiPo's Avoid LiFe's - they are just not worth it imho You would think they would be ideal for a bridging level between 7.4v & 11.1v LiPo @ 9.9v But in reality I found they offered very little extra real grunt over a 25c 7.4v in a mildly tweak gun Perhaps they performed better in a std stock gun but when tested in a slightly beefed gun they showed little improvement And because of the poor performance of the LiFe's leads me to wonder how much raw chemical energy other battery types have interesting video: However the guy does say it doesn't have the same raw grunt or C or burst as the Lipo Go to say 6:30 and guy says it hasn't same grunt as the LiPo But it might be ok for modest builds - much like the LiFe battery type I found keep us updated how you get on though but I still think LiPo's are still the way for airsoft just trying find the right size/shape LiPo that can be a major headache sometimes (easy used a big fixed stock & carry ya lunch in there too or just duct tape the bastid on ya gun) Certain batteries will suit certain applications is what I feel RC stuff & their motors even in use is nothing like airsoft motors RC's get going and in general that is it - well yeah they fluctuate in speed control but... Nothing like AEG's when you think about it Just shifting stuff is one thing but the spring's compression builds placing more draw even though the sodding motor is moving now Each cycle even on full auto the motor is running freely as piston is released, then builds up & up again to a point where the poor motor/battery's nutz almost drop off dragging the piston back the last few teeth Well ok - not quite so vividly put perhaps - but you see they difference in use that the airsoft battery is going through and the vast variation in load increasing & free running until the load increases again etc... To me I am imagining a TESLA being driven to work with say 12 foot high speed bumps all the way Yeah let's see how much grunt & how long the recharge points are now A bit OTT I'll agree but that is kind of like what is happening inside an AEG box as it cycles Which is a lot different to a little RC whizzing around Soz - dramatic example I know but these peew peew toy guns are much more demanding than RC's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 Those NCR cells are high capacity but only have a peak current of 6.8A. A quick look at the discharge graphs for the two different batteries shows that the voltage drop for the Samsung 25r at 20A is quite a lot less than the drop for the NCR @ 6.7A, which might suggest a different chemistry. I'm going to see if a can find the discharge graph for a comparable lipo and see how they stack up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 So I'll get a couple for the sake of a tenner and see if it works. Worst case is I wind up with a couple of extra torch batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Lozart Posted April 3, 2017 Supporters Share Posted April 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Hangtight said: http://batteriesplus.co.uk/acatalog/Samsung-25R-Green-Li-Ion-18650-Rechargeable-Battery---3.7-V-2500-mAh-Lithium-cell-1955.html So if it's a 2500mAh cell and it's continuous draw current is 22A then it has a C rating of less than 10. So no, it won't make a very good battery for airsoft. 20C is nearer what you want to make it worthwhile.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted April 6, 2017 Author Share Posted April 6, 2017 Well, ordered some. I'll let you know if it works out. If it doesn't then I may have some torch batteries for sale... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share Posted April 9, 2017 Now to see if it'll work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Sitting Duck Posted April 9, 2017 Supporters Share Posted April 9, 2017 58 minutes ago, Hangtight said: Now to see if it'll work... kidding - nice handy work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 Well, it works. Trigger response seems the same, and the measured rate of fire is the same. The few short bursts I've tried don't seem to cause any significant rise in the battery temperature. As soon as I get a chance I'll try a proper stress test, probably by taking it to a skirmish and seeing how it performs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 Post is back from the dead. The packs work. The batteries don't get hot even if I'm being trigger happy, and they're good for pretty much the full stated capacity. So that's a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Samurai Posted September 5, 2017 Supporters Share Posted September 5, 2017 I have used both lipo and liion 18650 batteries for 400 fps aegs no problem. At that time their capacity and C rating were a bit low, but still better than a 7 cell nimh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Sitting Duck Posted March 23, 2020 Supporters Share Posted March 23, 2020 Necro posting I know but wtf in case anybody is bored whilst in isolation or something... Now as an ex-smoker, vaper there is a couple of cross overs between AEG's & Vaping eg: mosfets like 3034's & also vapers use 18650, 20700 & 21700 - though 18650 is most common anyway there are a couple of good vaping battery sellers out there 18650 & Fogstar are two of the most highly rated ones (also vaping & DIY mods, a good site is stealthvape for many bits not just wire for vaping) ANYWAY - long story short, I mostly use single Samsung 30Q's for modest vape setups However the heavy hitters all highly rate Molicel batteries for high wattage vaping https://18650.uk/product/molicel-inr18650-p26a-18650-battery/ and from time to time both 18650 & Fogstar do discounts coupons/offers so at time of posting: " iloveweekends " gets you 20% off so 2 Moli's normally £11:98 with code is £2:40 saved so becomes £9:58 & free postage at 18650.co.uk (in the past I've bought say 3 x 30Q's about £10:50 delivered just before Xmas) NB: 30Q's & others are good but do not have the higher discharge or ratings like Molicel's (Moli's are very respected by big cloud chucking vapers) So if you get bored and wish to mess about, then Moli's would be a good unit to use & if you know where to look there are some cheap Moli's are about from legit suppliers (be careful buying any crap, re-wrapped cheapo batteries sold as 30Q's etc... on fleabay) Just came across those Titan batteries & eventually 18650 & this old thread - hence the necro I might try it myself one day on a mild/modest gun with picky battery options, but got enough projects atm Just passing on some crap in case any of you bored or into 18650 etc.. stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarrin Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Apparently you can get 4.2v and 4.35v 18650 cells so a combined 8.4v/8.7v batt - that might be a nice alternative lithium setup to a 7.4 lipo. Edit* Scrap that, looks like that higher voltage is just the standard max charge voltage on the standard 3.7v cells - it's just some people label them 4.2v The problem I have found with with ebay and AliE 18650 cells is that most are utterly fake - ususally about 10-20% of stated capacity. (rule of thumb - if they say 1,000,0000,000 Mah, then it's closer to 200 - and if it's a pack of 5 4000mah for 5 quid, then again they will be a couple hundred mah) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Sitting Duck Posted March 23, 2020 Supporters Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 hour ago, mzjango said: Apparently you can get 4.2v and 4.35v 18650 cells so a combined 8.4v/8.7v batt - that might be a nice alternative lithium setup to a 7.4 lipo. Edit* Scrap that, looks like that higher voltage is just the standard max charge voltage on the standard 3.7v cells - it's just some people label them 4.2v The problem I have found with with ebay and AliE 18650 cells is that most are utterly fake - ususally about 10-20% of stated capacity. (rule of thumb - if they say 1,000,0000,000 Mah, then it's closer to 200 - and if it's a pack of 5 4000mah for 5 quid, then again they will be a couple hundred mah) Indeed, the old mobile phone batteries from China, were nowhere near the expected rating But one instance maybe where a double or triple 18650 inline/series, would-be on a MP5k or on a AK-47 dust cover stick type battery... 65mm long x 3 = 195mm plus a bit more for wires/cap etc... So in theory using say 3 x Moli's like I listed = 11.1v or 12.6v fully charged 2600mah In a space of a crappy 8.4v 1600 mah nimah That could add some zest under your AK's dust cover, is one example where a 2 or 3 cell decent high spec 18650 project could be worth doing perhaps ??? In certain instances on mild to modest builds a 18650 might be worth a go, as @Samurai said certainly no worse than nimah types & could get more zest in same space as a 8.4v stick type Oh well just a thought as they say if you are a bit bored perhaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarrin Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, Sitting Duck said: But one instance maybe where a double or triple 18650 inline/series, would-be on a MP5k or on a AK-47 dust cover stick type battery... Ak dust cover yeah probably a good fit - MP5K though... hmm, i'm almost certain the 18650 is too wide, at least for the Galaxy G5K which is what I have, unfortunately I don't have it to hand at the moment so cant check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Sitting Duck Posted March 23, 2020 Supporters Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 hour ago, mzjango said: Ak dust cover yeah probably a good fit - MP5K though... hmm, i'm almost certain the 18650 is too wide, at least for the Galaxy G5K which is what I have, unfortunately I don't have it to hand at the moment so cant check. It takes the regular stick type battery The issue is that SOME of them have a thicker wire running down the stick joining the 7 or so cells in series... Needs one wire running from negative/bottom of stack to top, completing the series circuit On "some" sticks this wire is thicker or bulges more than others, plus thicker/thinner insulation wrap on the stick Normally taking the 18mm diameter to say near 19-20mm doesn't matter too much, HOWEVER on the quirky Galaxy MP5k it bloody does as much over 19mm gets friggin tight in there Now this is where linking just 2 or 3 together and linking the circuit with either a flatter wider strip, or using say Alpha Eco wire or something, something that has very thin but tough insulation... Then you should be able to make sure the 18 of the 18650 only increases to 19mm Galaxy should have made the battery channel a smidge wider or slightly oval or with a groove/channel/slot for the link wire to fall into Yes Galaxy is a bit of a wank in many ways, the tactical fuck pig that you have to unbolt the plastic rail crap is even worse. The nozzle is not MP5 but more like a SHS M4, yet that is a tight fit into the hop unit as well as the V3 gearbox in there is not a great one either Yeah battery is a bitch, but is another one that could benefit from creating your own bespoke battery if bored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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