Sub 350fps DMR

[AshOnSnow]

Do you think it's possible to get a sub-350fps DMR through barrel, hop and piston upgrades? Or it is vital to be able to shoot those heavyweight BBs far with a strong 140 or 150 spring, and all the other bells and whistles you need to buy to support that?

[ImTriggerHappy]

What would be the point?

DMR's are basically pointless at the best of times. If you want it because you like the way it looks then just put together a normal AEG and keep the full auto. 

If you want to sling heavier bb's then any gun with a decent hop will do that just don't expect to get quite the same range as a 400/450fps gun and don't bother shooting at moving targets as they will be gone before your bb gets there.

[Sitting Duck]

The general idea is many use .25's or up to .30's say in aeg's if trying to go for range/accuracy

So in a DMR you want .30's min upwards to say .40's or heavier for snipers

 

To sling the heavier bb's you want a bit more power - say 349.99fps for .30's so to speak

 

Using lighter bb's in general suck, 0.20's if you really have to

and 0.12's or 0.15's are a waste of time for accuracy and range especially

 

The easiest example of light bb's vs heavier bb's is a ping-pong ball Vs golf ball....

see which one you can throw the furthest - it won't be the light as f*ck ping-pong ball

 

In aeg's there is a trade off in weight governed by the power available 350 or say 425

So depending on power available you use the appropriate weight accordingly

Hence 0.25's or .28's or .30's for aeg's to obtain best balance of power/accuracy

 

A sub 350 DMR just doesn't make much sense to me

much like trying use a 340 svd dragunov at the Mall

 

Not saying you can't - but think it won't perform as you might expect it to

There are charts n crap showing the power to weight = range stuff for airsoft

But ping-pong Vs golf ball is an easy to imagine example of range/weight & power crap thingy majig

[Samurai]

My main AEG is like that. Sub 350, single shot and accurate as hell. I use 0.28 or 0.30g BBs in it.
I don't use scope on it, just a red dot, because that's perfectly fine for airsoft ranges and I can use the gun for close shots.

I don't aim to be a DM, it's just my playstyle. I never shoot auto.

 

Best flight stability for a BB is around 300 fps. So if you shoot 0.20g at 350 that's 300 with 0.28g.

 

[AshOnSnow]

44 minutes ago, Samurai said:

My main AEG is like that. Sub 350, single shot and accurate as hell. I use 0.28 or 0.30g BBs in it.
I don't use scope on it, just a red dot, because that's perfectly fine for airsoft ranges and I can use the gun for close shots.

I don't aim to be a DM, it's just my playstyle. I never shoot auto.

 

Best flight stability for a BB is around 300 fps. So if you shoot 0.20g at 350 that's 300 with 0.28g.

 

 

 

That's what I was getting at - in terms of the play style and single shot accuracy, it's not always necessary to load an AEG up to the nines with power?

 

What modifications did you make to yours?

[Samurai]

4 minutes ago, AshOnSnow said:

What modifications did you make to yours?

Nothing very special. A good hopup bucking and nub and a Marui inner barrel. The rest are parts that I had and fit. I bought some expensive gearset for example and that didn't fit. It's a CA so the only thing really needed was a motor. The Marui barrel is the thing I keep between my main guns, I really like that.

[AshOnSnow]

Took it into the airsoft store today and went through some things with their tech -

 

They're going to put in a 6.03 tightbore, upgrade the hop rubbers, new spring guide, cylinder head and air nozzle. May or may not use a longer barrel - 455 or 509 - to push the FPS closer into the 350 mark, depending on how it performs with those upgrades and how the cylinder holds up. Also going to do a full service with fresh shims, bushings etc. If it's possible with the cylinder, but the longer tighbore pushes it over 350, then we may downgrade the spring for a slightly faster trigger response and less stress on the other internals.

[Sacarathe]

For what reason is longer barrel being considered? Until muzzle velocities are tested by Joules I'd have thought you'd want to avoid joule creep wherever possible.

[Samurai]

And joule creep is achieved with shorter barrels.

Longer barrel is needed to make your wallet lighter so you can move faster.

[AshOnSnow]

1 hour ago, Sacarathe said:

For what reason is longer barrel being considered? Until muzzle velocities are tested by Joules I'd have thought you'd want to avoid joule creep wherever possible.

 

Only changing the barrel length after testing and chrono with the 363 tightbore if he thinks it could make a positive difference - he was a bit dubious that it would help much, and he said something about compression ratios and it all went a bit over my head, but it's on the table as an option after the 1st round of testing when all the other stuff has been done.

 

But I've been going to them for a while and I've only ever heard nothing but good things about them so I have to just trust their judgement. 

 

£110 all in.

 

1 hour ago, Samurai said:

And joule creep is achieved with shorter barrels.

Longer barrel is needed to make your wallet lighter so you can move faster.

 

Price would be the same regardless of barrel length.

[Sacarathe]

2 hours ago, Samurai said:

And joule creep is achieved with shorter barrels.

Longer barrel is needed to make your wallet lighter so you can move faster.

 

Please remind me. It was my understanding that if you have two guns firing 0.3 or 0.4 g BBs at the same joules the gun with the longer barrel would have less FPS with 0.2g bbs.

[Samurai]

19 minutes ago, Sacarathe said:

 

Please remind me. It was my understanding that if you have two guns firing 0.3 or 0.4 g BBs at the same joules the gun with the longer barrel would have less FPS with 0.2g bbs.

The lighter the BB the longer barrel you need to use all the air because it's easier to accelerate it.

If the 0.20 leaves before the air is used up (because of short barrel), but the heavy BB uses all the air before it leaves the same barrel, the heavy one will gain more energy.

[Sacarathe]

4 hours ago, Samurai said:

The lighter the BB the longer barrel you need to use all the air because it's easier to accelerate it.

If the 0.20 leaves before the air is used up (because of short barrel), but the heavy BB uses all the air before it leaves the same barrel, the heavy one will gain more energy.

 

I must be just confused because that matches what is in my head, which fits with what i said above about a longer barrel, given sufficient volume making a gun less likely to meet a joule based chrono vs a 0.2g chrono.

 

Negligible numbers ofc, but every little helps.

[tomseaton]

I recently just sold my cyma M14 which had fully upgraded motor gearbox mosfet barrel. Hop unit. The works, around 250 worth of upgrades, it would shoot around 338fps but the range was amazing, I'd say 80m on. 30 bbs, it's possible,  a good gun tech could do it

[ImTriggerHappy]

 

11 hours ago, tomseaton said:

I recently just sold my cyma M14 which had fully upgraded motor gearbox mosfet barrel. Hop unit. The works, around 250 worth of upgrades, it would shoot around 338fps but the range was amazing, I'd say 80m on. 30 bbs, it's possible,  a good gun tech could do it

 

For those that don't know distance conversion 80 airsoft metres is 50 standard metres.

[tomseaton]

Haha yeah your probablyright but it far outshoots other players barring snipers 

[AshOnSnow]

Well after skirmishing on Sunday at Cottenham, I've decided to go full sniper, and getting a VSR build done up for me around £550 next week.

[ImTriggerHappy]

35 minutes ago, AshOnSnow said:

Well after skirmishing on Sunday at Cottenham, I've decided to go full sniper, and getting a VSR build done up for me around £550 next week.

While I am very happy for you and hope that your gun turns out lovely your post did make me wonder about something.

Why when talking about a gun they have bought or are upgrading do people need to put how much they are spending in their post?

 

Why can't they just put that they have bought item "A" or that they are getting item "A" upgraded to their chosen spec why do people feel the need to post the value?

 

I for one have no interest in knowing how much someone has spent or in advertising how much I have spent just in what it is or how it performs. I find the whole boasting thing kind of offensive and attention seeking. If someone asks then by all means tell them but to just put it the post is a bit like willy waving.

 

To the OP I am not having a dig at you personally just the whole practice in general.

 

Porsches are for elongating penis's not airsoft guns.

 

 

[AshOnSnow]

Because in many cases, you get what you pay for - and a stock VSR won't really perform well without any upgrades. I figured a number would be an easier way to indicate the upgrade work going into it, rather than going out and listing every tiny little thing.

[ImTriggerHappy]

4 minutes ago, AshOnSnow said:

Because in many cases, you get what you pay for - and a stock VSR won't really perform well without any upgrades. I figured a number would be an easier way to indicate the upgrade work going into it, rather than going out and listing every tiny little thing.

Nope I can add a number on to any gun but the number means nothing because the number can be spent in many ways.

 

Just posting that you are buying a VSR and having some mods done to improve range and accuracy would be enough to put I am spending £whatever comes across as kind of vulgar.

 

As I said it's not a personal thing against anyone just an observation on an iffy practice.

[Sacarathe]

When persons without a relevant tradecraft attribute the extent of their upgrades by a numerical pecuniary value this doesn't have to mean anything other than a layman's way of measuring the degree of upgradiness.

 

Though I do think people should distinguish the base gun + upgrades in £ rather than just a flat number, as I always think people bin ripped off/actually stupid otherwise.

[ImTriggerHappy]

6 minutes ago, Sacarathe said:

When persons without a relevant tradecraft attribute the extent of their upgrades by a numerical pecuniary value this doesn't have to mean anything other than a layman's way of measuring the degree of upgradiness.

 

Though I do think people should distinguish the base gun + upgrades in £ rather than just a flat number, as I always think people bin ripped off/actually stupid otherwise.

I just think that the practice of coy price dropping is very obvious and as I said vulgar. Nobody needs to know how much you spent and if they do they will ask.

[Hangtight]

I don't add up what stuff /bits cost... It's probably best not to know! And if it's not written down it didn't happen, which so far has been a valid defense in the face of casual enquiries from the significant other about where all the money has gone.