G1DD3N Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Hi All, This has probably been covered a couple of times but I haven't been able to find anything in search (i could be searching for the wrong keywords, who knows). Basically I was looking at building a custom gun from new parts just as a bit of fun. I know its probably cheaper to buy one build already but where is the fun in that? I saw online a G&P Receiver Set (metal body, gearbox motor etc. all included) and it looked like a solid base to work from and would only need, hop, barrel, outer barrel and stock to be added to it to make it complete. Any thoughts on these? Experiences? Advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Samurai Posted January 31, 2017 Supporters Share Posted January 31, 2017 Different brands for the same type of gun are rarely compatible. Sometimes it is true for the same brands too. It is very very hard to put together a properly working RIF from different parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G1DD3N Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 So you're saying that a G&P receiver would be best used only in conjunction with other G&P parts, like outer barrel, stock etc? This is the receiver set i was looking at and because of what it includes i thought that it could be a good base to start from and avoid some of the compatibility issues between different receivers and gearboxes? http://airsoftzone.co.uk/parts/receivers/m4-m16-seal-skull-metal-body-pro-kit-black-gnp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Receivers and gearboxes generally seem to go together OK, or at least the variations I've tried so far (3 different M4 receivers and 4 different gearbox shells). It's all the other bits that are the problem. Grips usually need a fettle to get a good match to the receiver. Some barrel nuts don't fit over some barrels. Tolerances vary with things like the outer barrel to receiver. Cocking handles that either nearly fit or rattle. Pistons that bind on gearbox rails, gears that don't clear gearbox internals... Nothing that can't be overcome, but it's handy to have a mate with a lathe and know how to make things fit properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G1DD3N Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 Receivers and gearboxes generally seem to go together OK, or at least the variations I've tried so far (3 different M4 receivers and 4 different gearbox shells). It's all the other bits that are the problem. Grips usually need a fettle to get a good match to the receiver. Some barrel nuts don't fit over some barrels. Tolerances vary with things like the outer barrel to receiver. Cocking handles that either nearly fit or rattle. Pistons that bind on gearbox rails, gears that don't clear gearbox internals... Nothing that can't be overcome, but it's handy to have a mate with a lathe and know how to make things fit properly. Thanks for the input, so with the receiver set that i linked in my other post that includes a grip, motor, gearbox, receiver so all that really needs to be added is a hop, inner barrel, outer barrel & stock... so from the perspective it is a little more straight forward than trying to cobble together random parts? Or am I underestimating it? I would have thought that getting a compatible outer barrel, inner barrel and hop unit would be relatively simple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I'd go hunting some reviews of the G&P product. Perhaps look for first hand experiences with complete guns. The receiver looks well cast and finished with crisp detailing, but I didn't notice any performance figures or spring specs, other than the M120 motor. Depending on your choice of barrel length you may need to change the cylinder, and maybe the spring too if it's heavier than M100. Hop and barrel is probably the easiest bit. An AEG barrel will fit an AEG hop, but you'll find that some buckings can cause feed and air seal issues. For what the G&P assembly costs I reckon you could put together something with good externals and decent custom internals, but for what is going to cost to finish the gun you're probably better off getting a Krytac which will work perfectly, and then tweak the externals to your taste. That's what I'd do, and that's with the experience of trying to build something from bits with a good amount of engineering knowhow and decent tool skills. Don't let me put you off, if you get it done then you'll have something cool and the satisfaction of knowing that you did it yourself. Just be aware that it might fight you the whole way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G1DD3N Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 From what i've read it's an M120 spring as well which would need to be dialed down a bit to keep it site legal in most places. Reviews are OK but one or two complaints about the piston teeth being stripped but that was from the USA and no detail as to what they were running along with it. They have them listed on Evike - the information is a bit more detailed there. Aside from that the reviews are positive about the quality etc. I've been trying to find threads where someone has used it as a base to build from but as yet ive not found anything particularly useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Just cost it out, then see if the total gives you a fright! Don't forget a new spring, possibly a new cylinder. Ak2m4.co.uk have good prices on stuff, or check out dhgate.com to buy direct from China. I've had stocks, buffer tubes, rails, sights etc direct from China with no problem. What you get might not be quite what's in the picture in some cases, but it'll be close enough! And don't forget that if you go the Krytac route, you won't have much problem selling the bits you take off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G1DD3N Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 Ill have a good look around tonight. Cost wise its not so much of a problem, its not like i need it built and done in the next 5 minutes so there's time for shopping around, importing etc. as i go along. My main reason for looking at that G&P receiver set was that it came complete with a lot of bits where you're not going to have issues. But if its just as simple to get a receiver and add a different, perhaps higher spec gearbox then that'd be a route i'd go as well. I suppose i was thinking this would avoid a few headaches. Ill investigate Krytacs a bit more as well - ive not looked at them at all if i am honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Samurai Posted January 31, 2017 Supporters Share Posted January 31, 2017 New gears too. G&P gears will break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G1DD3N Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 New gears too. G&P gears will break. Are they really that fragile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Sitting Duck Posted January 31, 2017 Supporters Share Posted January 31, 2017 As Samurai has said be careful of mixing & matching numerous bits..... It depends on your experience but the more you mix the more you will need to check thoroughly and by that I mean thoroughly...... I would think nigh on all of us at first thought: yup build my own or upgrade everything etc...... right slap that in there, chuck in that, add that bit, use of those, deffo go for that with a thingymajig & a wotsit too PILE OF F*CKING CRAP THAT FEEDS SWEET FA & SHOOTS $HIT - WTF !!!!! a few examples: ProWin hop - gotta be dogz nutz - ergh feeds like crap in some guns...... V2 gearbox in some receivers, a gap at the back, tighten up stock tube & tips box up at front (now nozzle scrapes or impedes feeding/sealing at hop unit) Some pistons bottoming out at full stroke, change pistol grip screws motor height angle etc.... Rip old barrel/hop apart that worked reasonably ok but rebuild it and new combo is dire - ooops (I suggest leaving an ok barrel/hop combo & build a new combo first if possible - prowin example) Me personally would advise most people do at least 2 or 3 stock stock gun upgrades that are ultra sweet I mean ultra sweet that they sound sweet, run smooth, last very well & shoot pretty decent To get to that point is NOT as easy as we all make out !!!! Often we assume Plan A but some parts not working as expected will equate to say Plan B, C or D at times If you got bits n bobs lying around then yeah you got nowt to lose trying to chuck/build something half decent But to build a snappy good performing gun takes a bit more skill & time that we first assume..... It is not so much the parts so much it is the person assembling them yes decent parts helps but all of us are still learning from our own nightmares though hopefully not witnessing them so much as we learn from our many mistakes Back on track I suggest rebuild a few cheapy guns first...... If you are up for it then get a boneyard one if price is good - what have you got to lose ? Or grab a cheapy base gun and go a bit nutz but keep most decent stuff. Most gearboxes are fine, it is how they are assembled is the main thing. As usual I'm waffling again - but a complete new even basic build is often the most tricky imho I'll try to sum it up in a more shorter & simplified way..... Teching toy guns is not as easy as Lego or Meccano ok if you built the death star or falcon then you are more experienced than say a duplo kit "The box said 9 to14 years - I did it in 9 months, f*ck yeah I'm good" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G1DD3N Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 Thanks Sitting Duck. I've had a play around with a couple of boneyard guns to get used to opening up and rebuilding gearboxes etc. and they were ok if not a little fiddly to reassemble with my sausage fingers... but that said they worked. My main reason for looking for building up new from parts was because with a boneyard AEG you think youve nailed it then something else wears out etc.etc. so i thought in the long run it would be cheaper. And it would mean i wasnt tearing up something that was brand new from the box and maybe causing more problems than i solved. But it does seem like the general consensus on approach is to buy something stock and then swap for aftermarket\upgrade parts rather than anything from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Sitting Duck Posted January 31, 2017 Supporters Share Posted January 31, 2017 You imho are on the right lines if you wish to mess about & build stuff mess about with cheap stuff and learn from mistakes that cost less Bits n bobs often need a bit of modding to fit together & function correctly also the wisdom to know the 3 types of TM compatible: 1st kind yup works quite well no hassle 2nd kind - needs a bit/lot of modding to work effectively 3rd kind - ain't never gonna work coz the part or your box or both are nothing like TM compatible.... Hence why people tend to stick to certain bits they prefer buy a load of new stuff will work out costly in the end In this case we tend to say just buy Krytac and leave it alone for a good while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Samurai Posted January 31, 2017 Supporters Share Posted January 31, 2017 Are they really that fragile? The shaft tend to break on one of the gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G1DD3N Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 A lot of food for thought... i really want to build something that is "my own" but looking at the advice here it would be easier to buy a base and then customise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Lozart Posted February 1, 2017 Supporters Share Posted February 1, 2017 A lot of food for thought... i really want to build something that is "my own" but looking at the advice here it would be easier to buy a base and then customise... I started out with an old TM M4A1, I got a Dytac receiver to replace the original plastic one mainly because I wanted to replace the old, two-part hop unit. And that's when the never ending cycle of trying to work out why the hell nothing fitted together and why my gun was now worse than when I started. It's not quite a nice gun but the bolt cover still doesn't shut properly. To give you a for instance - most manufacturers use the phrase "fully TM compatible" when describing parts. The thread on the handguard nut for my DD style RIS didn't match the threads on the receiver. The TM charging handle didn't fit in the receiver with the TM gearbox (had to buy a Dytac one from Hong Kong) and so the list goes on. I think the only original parts are now the gearbox shell and buffer tube. Pretty much everything else ended up getting changed. That said, I love that gun and I learned a lot from doing it. Just make sure it's a) not your only gun before you start and b ) you have ALL the tools you need and/or c) a large quantity of disposable cash you can throw at the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G1DD3N Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 All good advice, and i definitely wouldnt consider tearing apart an AEG is it was the only one that I had. Cash wise its not so much an issue, if i need to wait till payday for parts ill wait. I dont want to rush it anyway - also i find that makes you spend more time researching parts and threads from forums. I really did want to try and build something from scratch but i think for now building from a solid base makes sense until i've got my head a little more around the tech part. Just get stuck in and tinker i suppose is the best way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Lozart Posted February 1, 2017 Supporters Share Posted February 1, 2017 I really did want to try and build something from scratch but i think for now building from a solid base makes sense until i've got my head a little more around the tech part. Just get stuck in and tinker i suppose is the best way forward. If you want to build from scratch, do it. It's YOUR project and nobody else's. The only thing I would suggest is DO YOUR RESEARCH!!! G&P receiver threads are often different spec to other manufacturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G1DD3N Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 If you want to build from scratch, do it. It's YOUR project and nobody else's. The only thing I would suggest is DO YOUR RESEARCH!!! G&P receiver threads are often different spec to other manufacturers. I did read that but there's conflicting information depending on where you look. Some say newer parts are the more common TM type thread, older information seems to say its different. Would be hit and miss i suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzer306 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 My custom gun from this To this Sorry for double pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G1DD3N Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 ^ That looks really smart. What was your experience of pulling it together from a pile of parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katana Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 The best thing to do is to try to stick to one manufacturer for as much of the gun as you can in my opinion G&P is the prime example..... Oh so you want to put that lovely Daniel Defence rail on this sexy new G&P receiver.....WELL f*ck YOU, NOT GONNA HAPPEN How about a new hop up unit, I heard the madbull 3 in 1 is really goo.....DOUBLE f*ck YOU, NOPE (btw for future reference, the madbull hop chamber is mediocre at best) Of course you can modify both parts but do you really want the hassle when you could of bought a receiver that would of accomodated both of those things in the first place? Definitely do your research or things like this Before you buy a stock for instance...will it fit the buffer tube you have? G&P and Krytac stocks don't like each other.... That's a nice mag but now the receiver is gonna make that thing wobble like a freaking mariachi band If you were going to build a gun, match brands as much as you can where you can to avoid mishaps. A Madbull receiver will probably fit a Daniel Defence rail because the rail in question is licenced by Madbull. This is why I would suggest just getting a gun that you would minimally change the externals to so all your work can go into the internals. The gearbox is the easy part when it comes to mixing and matching externals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Don't underestimate the ability of the gearbox to throw a spanner in the works if you're mixing and matching. SHS cylinder head that didn't sit properly in a JG 8mm V2 shell without some tricky Dremeling. Same gearbox shell, not enough width for SHS gears using the stock bushes. SHS piston that binds in two different shells I've tried unless the guide rails are lowered. I could go on! And SHS stuff isn't anywhere near as bad as that makes it sound! Good value, good quality, but serves as an example that bits don't always fit together properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzer306 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 7 hours ago, G1DD3N said: ^ That looks really smart. What was your experience of pulling it together from a pile of parts? I 7 hours ago, G1DD3N said: ^ That looks really smart. What was your experience of pulling it together from a pile of parts? Went go together easily enough, the reciever and gearbox are both APS, the rest is a Heinz 57 of parts, only real hard part was putting in the centre pin through lower receiver and gearbox, keymod rail went on easy to, didn't have to really line it up so to speak, the stock is of my own design and imagination Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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