VERY Hot Pistol grip?

[Shizbazki]

Hi guys, looking for a second opinion

 

Okay over the weekend on Sunday I popped down to Dragons Lair in Essex and play for the day there using mainly my G&G TR4-18 Light (CQB version of HK 416) for those that havn't been there this site is very full auto friendly and one can rinse BBs in that field. I mainly stick to full auto but only fire in bursts of 5 or 10 shots.

 

However probably about the second game in i notice that the pistol grip of my gun was getting very hot, to the point i could feel the heat through my mechanix gloves and touching bare hand or cheek to the pistol grip proved that it was as hot as cup of very warm tea (i guessed it to be about 60 or so celsius), it would have been impossible to hold the grip with bare hands.

 

When i got home i too the motor out of the pistol grip, connected it, held it in my hand and ran it for about 20 seconds and found it got barely warm, however when i pulled and released the trigger several times in quick succession i found the motor got very hot very quickly, BTW it is the stock G&G motor that came with the gun.

 

I think i know what is causing the issue but want a second opinion, the fact that the motor gets very hot even when out of the gearbox means its not a gearbox issue so i have eliminated that, i think the onus falls on my MOSFET, it is a GATE Electronics PICO AAB which has been installed by me correctly, it has ACTIVE BRAKING and i know that this causes heat build up in the motor but seriously this MUCH I have only experienced that much heat on Sunday just gone, previous game days the pistol grip always stayed just warm what could have changed?

[sp00n]

Hi guys, looking for a second opinion

 

Okay over the weekend on Sunday I popped down to Dragons Lair in Essex and play for the day there using mainly my G&G TR4-18 Light (CQB version of HK 416) for those that havn't been there this site is very full auto friendly and one can rinse BBs in that field. I mainly stick to full auto but only fire in bursts of 5 or 10 shots.

 

However probably about the second game in i notice that the pistol grip of my gun was getting very hot, to the point i could feel the heat through my mechanix gloves and touching bare hand or cheek to the pistol grip proved that it was as hot as cup of very warm tea (i guessed it to be about 60 or so celsius), it would have been impossible to hold the grip with bare hands.

 

When i got home i too the motor out of the pistol grip, connected it, held it in my hand and ran it for about 20 seconds and found it got barely warm, however when i pulled and released the trigger several times in quick succession i found the motor got very hot very quickly, BTW it is the stock G&G motor that came with the gun.

 

I think i know what is causing the issue but want a second opinion,the fact that the motor gets very hot even when out of the gearbox means its not a gearbox issue so i have eliminated that, i think the onus falls on my MOSFET, it is a GATE Electronics PICO AAB which has been installed by me correctly, it has ACTIVE BRAKING and i know that this causes heat build up in the motor but seriously this MUCH I have only experienced that much heat on Sunday just gone, previous game days the pistol grip always stayed just warm what could have changed?

 

I would suggest its the motor, it may need a clean/lube (lube only the end bushings/bearing with a tiny amount of lube.), or the brushes may be worn.

[Sitting Duck]

semi spamming puts a massive strain on fet & motor

if you are firing a lot on semi or muchas short bursts in a long bursty firefight the mofo's will get very very warm

(even without Active Braking)

 

Add to that Active Braking stopping the motor through reverse polarity each time

then starting again from still and energy required from still and reverse to stop.........

 

You know this yourself as you said......

 

only wany to test for sure is see if you can plug in a basic fet wired with deans & think the signal contacts might be micro deans

anyway - the Gate should just unplug & then plug in a non-AB fet with male/female deans + micro deans

test again and she should run cooler under semi burst testing

if not then motor/wiring/reshim needs to be looked at

 

dunno if she will over-run much as I dunno what rof/battery you are using - 24/25rps+ and she might start to double cycle I have found

 

What is your normal rof aprox, as if replacing motor with a neodym one you can go from either a 10% to 50% increase in rof

depending on motor installed. Again you need to decide if the fet or stock motor is the main issue or if there is a dry box or reshim needed to reduce friction/load on motor....

 

Yes them grips can get warm but if feeling it getting too warm/hot through ya gloves then it is too warm like you said

[Dannn]

I'm running 35+ rps with with mosfet eith no active breaking and really good trigger response and my pistol grip also gets mega hot.... Ill just ignore it till it stopps working lol

[Shizbazki]

Sorry dude forgot to mention lol

 

The battery is an 11.1V Lipo rated at 2600mAh at 25C.

 

The gun gets around 18 - 19 rounds per second last i checked, this was before going on Sunday and since then i have made modifications to the motor adjustment so it may be slightly faster.

 

I will give the AEG a few bursts through the chrono to see the RPS again and see how hot it gets and if need be pop down to Airsoft Zone today or tomorrow.

 

that said if something breaks its likley to be the motor and its not a obscenely expensive part

[RR01]

Try running it on a 7.4V Lipo and see if you get the same problem. If not, drop to lower voltage battery.

[Sitting Duck]

soz you got pico ab fet.......

the unplug crap was if you had the more expensive mofo Gate fets

 

try a firestorm fet £10 baby mofo non-ab fet, bloody ace with built in thermal fuse

 

get a neodym motor and run on 7.4v and get same if not faster results

[Shizbazki]

soz you got pico ab fet.......

the unplug crap was if you had the more expensive mofo Gate fets

 

try a firestorm fet £10 baby mofo non-ab fet, bloody ace with built in thermal fuse

 

get a neodym motor and run on 7.4v and get same if not faster result

 

Managed to fix it since last post.

 

Looks like the AEG just needed some TLC :s I haven't done any proper maintenance to the AEG since Jan 2015 and since then i have been skirmishing about 9 times since then between Dragons Lair and Billericay Airsoft, mostly on dry days and both of which very dusty safe zones.

 

I realised after i opened it that this was the one AEG i never shimmed (don't know why), shimming by G&G was all over the shop.

 

Nonetheless i have now

• Swapped out the old steel bearings and replaced them with some MODIFY ceramic bearings
• Re shimmed the gearbox (properly this time)
• Used a decent White lithium grease on gears
• Re did the wiring from the stock 16AWG silicone wires to 16AWG silver wires
• Made the wires longer so it wasn't an arse taking apart and putting the AEG back together again
• Re did all the heat shrink at various parts and reinforced them by double heat shrink wrapping
• Re lubed the cylinder and piston head with silicon grease
• Switched motors

Points to note, the old motor had lots of carbon build up inside it, its still usable but probably needs a whole tear down and maybe some running under water for a bit but can I be arsed? if I need a new one I will probably get my go to favourite the G&P M120 High Speed motor.

 

I will probably have to change the piston at some point, I noted whilst doing the above that the teeth on it looked very worn, almost like a small indent on the first few pick up teeth, i lined it up with the Sector gear and it seems fine, shoots ok but its a point to note, I didn't replace it as I don't have one spare so i have left it as is, if it break it breaks but i will be ordering another piston with metal teeth (SHS blue piston has done me well many times) either today or tomorrow so i should have another spare

 

So after all the above has anything changed?

• Well the motor does get warm still, I think that down to the active braking as there is some sparking when the motor stops, I might replace the MOSFET in the long run but by then i may have switched to P*
• The rate of fire has now gone from 16.5 RPS to 21.5 RPS on the same battery, i think thats mostly down to better shimming and better bearings
• The FPS has gone up from a stable 330FPS to a stable 345FPS (+/- 2FPS)

[Sitting Duck]

Me personally I don't think the G&P m120 is that wonderful, sp00n didn't rate his and I have the Big Dragon clone or unbranded one and tbh not much better than a stock ferrite well it is a ferrite motor...

 

If you are gonna buy a new motor get at least a neodym maybe the steady m140 or ak2m4 had a cheap zci "balanced" motor (both m140 and zci balanced 16tpi or something they both neodym)

 

SHS blue, if that is the 3 steel teeth they are very very light but think the plastic is a tad too soft. Ripped one in an afternoon's spraying @ 30rps on son's 416. Lasted the afternoon but crapped out the next day in garden

The gun I mean not my son, he is kind of house trained

 

It might be OK for 20rps but I ain't that impressed with them just think they are too soft, bloody light piston.

 

I like the grey ACM's 3 n 7 steel teeth piston at TWG atm, the 3 steel grey one went in there and lasted 2 full mental days and reckon 8k in total hosed through it so far

 

Well that is just my take on stuff I use or have used in past

[sp00n]

Lonex A2 is my motor of choice (or A1 if you can afford it)

 

I don't think much of the g&p m120 motor, they do seem to get really hot, and wasn't that much faster then the stock TM eg750 motor iirc (or I didn't think so) that it replaced.

[Shizbazki]

Nah the SHS blue piston has a full rack of steel teeth.

 

As for motors its something i will look into but for now the current one i have in it is fine and will do for now.

 

Cheers all for the help