G&G GR16 Raider Long upgrade and issue fix

[StrongBones]

Hi guys - some general advice and guidance before I start my first upgrade (on a G&G GR16 Raider Long) - I'm a competent at taking the gun apart. My goal for the upgrade is improved consistently, better accuracy, and longer distance. The gun currently shoots 297FPS with a 0.25g BB using a 1450 LiPo.

 

1. Issue - Double BB feed - I'm getting an occasional double BB feed when I fire (usually happens after a period of non-firing). Any ideas what the cause could be?

2. Barrel upgrade - I planning to get a 6.03 steel barrel. I've seen TomTac on eBay at a reasonable price. Is TomTac any good (versus MadBull)? To provide context, I'm not into brands, just performance at a reasonable price.

3. Hop-up upgrade - I have the standard G&G GR16 hopup but want to upgrade. Any recommendations on a new unit (which would include a nub)? 

4. Bucking - I'm not planning to upgrade the standard G&G green bucking

5. Gearbox tune up - I've seen a TomTac gearbox upgrade kit on eBay for £50. Is it worth buying such a kit?

 

I appreciate your time on this.

[Prisce]

1) @Iceni is more eloquent at describing these sort of things.

2) Haven’t used TomTac, but for a cheap decent barrel try ZCI from @ak2m4

3)The hop unit is fine, but if you want to upgrade, have you looked at ZCI’s rotary hop unit?

4)The bucking is good, keep the Nub, perhaps do the biro mod to it if you want to keep the bucking stock, if not look at flat hopping?

5)Never used TomTac, but most kits like that aren’t worth a toss.

[Iceni]

On 20/01/2019 at 11:59, StrongBones said:

1. Issue - Double BB feed - I'm getting an occasional double BB feed when I fire (usually happens after a period of non-firing). Any ideas what the cause could be?

 

Is it a double feed (2bb's 1 shot), Or the gun shoots twice on one trigger pull. Or does the gun fail to shoot then fire 2 bb's on the second cycle?

 

All 3 problems present different issues inside a gearbox, but you must diagnose the correct fault before you try to tweak anything.

2bb's 1 shot, for a single cycle of the gearbox, is generally a worn tappet plate, or air seal nozzle. Allowing 2 bb's to load at once. It's a rare fault. And I would not expect the gun to be suffering from this without upgrades. It would also be a persistent fault, Showing the fault on multiple trigger pulls not just the one. On full auto the BB's would look to be rolling out of the barrel at very low power.

2 cycles for 1 trigger pull is a different animal. This is normally caused by over-rotation of the gearbox. This happens when a motor is used that is too fast for the gearbox. It will present itself every shot on semi-auto, but can sometimes clear up as a battery dies. 25rps is where I would expect this to start happening. If you haven't upgraded your motor this will not be your fault.

Failure to shoot on the first cycle, then 2 bb's on the second cycle. This is a more common fault.  There are several reasons it can present itself. Hop wound on too much, and air leaks been the 2 most common causes. This type of fault will appear on a gun that has been used and can be corrected. A service and new parts are reccomended.

 

 

On 20/01/2019 at 11:59, StrongBones said:

2. Barrel upgrade - I planning to get a 6.03 steel barrel. I've seen TomTac on eBay at a reasonable price. Is TomTac any good (versus MadBull)? To provide context, I'm not into brands, just performance at a reasonable price.

Madbull barrels are crap. Avoid any of the aluminium or coated types. If you want a budget barrel get a ZCI from AK2M4. There are better barrels out there but none in the same price bracket. 363mm is normally about £20. Make sure you measure your barrel or find out online what barrel your gun uses.

 

On 20/01/2019 at 11:59, StrongBones said:

3. Hop-up upgrade - I have the standard G&G GR16 hopup but want to upgrade. Any recommendations on a new unit (which would include a nub)? 

The standard G&G unit is normally pretty solid. I like the ZCI plastic rotary style (AK2M4 <£10). You sometimes have to modify the ring slightly if it interferes with the gearbox. 2 minutes with a flat file and it can be sorted. For the bucking Prometheus Purple or G&G green. 

If your stock hop unit is working well and doesn't have issues then I wouldn't bother with the upgrade. CNC units might look good but they don't actually offer anything. The arms on the CNC units are still plastic. So if yours is free of cracks and it seals it'll be fine.

 

 

On 20/01/2019 at 11:59, StrongBones said:

4. Bucking - I'm not planning to upgrade the standard G&G green bucking

G&G greens are good buckings. So are Prometheus purples. They form the staple 2 buckings for all of my guns. I like others as well but I always have at least 1 of those in my gun bag as a spare. Don't be tempted by branded fancy buckings like the madbull ones. They're not up to much unless you install them absolutely perfectly. The maple leaf 50-degree bucking is also good, but there is always the chance the hop window on your barrel is a bit tight for it. Since you are asking about upgrades it's 100% safer to stick to the standard styles, in the softest rubber. When you have more confidence and gear you can start to play about with different buckings and designs... And spend the time tweaking them to try to get them working well.

 

On 20/01/2019 at 11:59, StrongBones said:

5. Gearbox tune up - I've seen a TomTac gearbox upgrade kit on eBay for £50. Is it worth buying such a kit?

Lol (no offence).

Gearbox tuning isn't really a thing. Well, it is but not how you expect.

The best upgrade you can do to any gearbox is replace the piston head o-ring (19x2.5mm nitrile 70 shore).

HARDENED STEEL M120 SPRING
Too powerful for most sites it's a 400fps spring. UK spec is M100 or a cut M110.
CNC ANTI-HEAT CYLINDER
It's an aluminium cylinder. The brass one in yours will conduct heat faster not that heat is a problem anyway.
CNC STEEL 18:1 TORQUE GEARSET
Standard 18:1 sintered steel gearset (it's exactly the same as what you have)
CNC DOUBLE O-RING CYLINDER HEAD
Marketing wank - it's a standard double o-ring cylinder head.
HIGH STRENGTH PISTON WITH FULL RACK OF STEEL TEETH
You only need a single metal tooth piston for the UK 350fps. The all steel rack just adds weight. Totally unneeded.
CNC BEARING PISTON HEAD
Again you have a working piston head, Adding another one for the sake of adding it isn't upgrading.
CNC STEEL BEARING SPRING GUIDE

Standard steel spring guide. Nice upgrade in the right situation, but not needed for most gearboxes.
CNC O-RING NOZZLE
Nice upgrade, but you would be better served getting the exact air seal nozzle recommended for your gun. All nozzles are different lengths. An M4 nozzle generally costs about £5.
8mm STEEL BEARING BUSHINGS
Bearings are nice, I prefer bushings... There are no guarantees that your gearbox shells are 8mm. Every company uses a different shell and a different bush diameter. If the stock ones in your gun are not worn, then it's not an upgrade.


 

The biggest problem with that kit isn't the kit. It's the fitting.


Spend the same money £50 send the gearbox to a proper tech and have them rebuild the gearbox. It'll come back shimmed, Airseal corrected, and lubricated correctly. All things it's actually very easy to get wrong. With that the gun will be back to perfect, And they will tell you if you need upgrades.

 

Trust your techs.

[Rogerborg]

22 hours ago, Iceni said:

Trust your techs.

 

"There is no truth in flesh, only betrayal."
"There is no strength in flesh, only weakness."
"There is no constancy in flesh, only decay."
"There is no certainty in flesh but death."

— Credo Omnissiah

[Iceni]

2 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

"There is no truth in flesh, only betrayal."
"There is no strength in flesh, only weakness."
"There is no constancy in flesh, only decay."
"There is no certainty in flesh but death."

— Credo Omnissiah