Inner Barrel

[sokar666]

Before i begin, i'm after people's honest opinion.  I'm buying a 455mm inner barrel today and have a conundrum.  Prometheus 6.03 and ZCI 6.02.  Now i know nearly everyone will instantly say get the prommy barrel which i can understand but my real question is?

 

Prometheus barrel £55

ZCI barrel £20

 

Both stainless steel

 

Is the prommy barrel worth the extra £35, will you get £35 worth of improvement over the ZCI.

 

I plan on r-hoping either barrel, i can afford either barrel but am just curious if the extra cost is really worth it.

 

Any honest opinions really appreciated.

[callumbagshaw]

what's it going into? I considered a prommy tbb but a guy at my local shop talked me out of it and persuaded me to go with an ASG "ultimate" 6.03mm.

Considering ASG's re-branding of average products approach, I'm very impressed! Can't comment on the prommy because I have no experience using one - but the ASG one definitely had a positive impact.

[Katana]

The prommy will outperform the zci technically but there most likely will not be much in it. The ZCI barrel's aren't that bad at all although I believe the Lonex barrel maybe slightly better for a similar-ish cost but don't quote me on that. 

 

If you are a performance enthusiast then go prommy, if you just want to see a good improvement, go ZCI.

[sokar666]

My plan is to make 3 upper receivers for my ICS Transform4.  Quite an expensive project and was just just trying to see if changing a couple of manufacturers used for parts without losing much performance just to save some money, that's the plan. 

 

Receiver 1 - Transform4 UK1R 375mm upgraded to 455mm with subsequent matching upgrades (possible DMR)

Receiver 2 - 263mm carbine version

Receiver 3 - CQB version like the CXP Captain

 

The plan is to have a gun for all occasions

[Guest PT247]

barrel length has no relevance on accuracy or range. A decent hop and consistent fps along with a high quality inner barrel are far more important. As an example, my Krytac PDW out ranges many full length rifles and I have found it to have the same accuracy and range as the shorter SDP and long SPR rifles from Krytac which I previously owned.

 

Instead of buying a load of upper receivers, hop units, outer barrels and inner barrels, just buy a PDI 6.05mm inner barrel for the length of rifle you prefer..... although by the sounds of things you already have the long version so my post is pointless lol

[Mos]

Although barrel length does have an effect on Cyl:Barrel volume ratios.

 

probably not as significant in AEG's as it is in Sniper rifles though.

 

so it is something to consider in single shot weapons where you care about range.

[Guest PT247]

Just now, Mos said:

Although barrel length does have an effect on Cyl:Barrel volume ratios.

 

probably not as significant in AEG's as it is in Sniper rifles though.

 

so it is something to consider in single shot weapons where you care about range.

it is only an issue if your barrel is too long for the porting. Except for aesthetic reasons I see no point in long rifles for airsoft, they serve no purpose at UK fps limits. (now in Russia or the USA it does make a difference as they have higher fps limits so you can run a softer spring in a long rifle to get the same fps a stronger spring would give on a short rifle.

[sokar666]

im aware of barrel lengths not really doing anything, it was more a cosmetic thing and just filing in blank space.  eventually putting a gate titan/spectre/chimera mosfet (haven't decided) and upping FPS on receiver 1 to 450.  The basic design is a gun for all purposes depending on how i want to play or where i am.

 

i was waiting for the inevitable response of why, just buy a PDI, if i wanted that i would have bought it.

[Guest PT247]

be careful with going to 450fps.... unless the gun can not be easily converted back to full auto it would make it a firearm in the new UK laws at that fps, 5 yrs in prison and unlimited fine or somit like that!

 

Aye, I get what you are saying re PDI, I just don't understand why someone would spend hundreds of pounds on cosmetics, yet skrimp on the parts that actually help it shoot well? :-)

[ImTriggerHappy]

12 minutes ago, sokar666 said:

 

i was waiting for the inevitable response of why, just buy a PDI, if i wanted that i would have bought it.

So you know the correct answer but are ignoring it anyway? Are you my wifes twin?

 

Be careful using a transform4 as a dmr because as much as I like ics I wouldn't trust their box or gears on a high fps dmr build.

[sokar666]

PDI isn't the be all and end all of inner barrels, my original question was the performance difference to the price, not if X manufacturer is better than Y.  PDI are vastly overpriced for what they are, if you got the money then fine go right ahead, everyone's opinion is different which is why i like these discussions.

 

A friend of mine put 2 ZCI barrels in his m4 and ak47 respectively and it just got me thinking does the price adhere to real performance upgrades or are we basically being fleeced for very minor improvements.

 

The gear issue on a Transform 4 always surprises me when someone mentions it. Do people realize every m4 ICS manufacture's are based on the Transform4, including there new unreleased M.A.R.S line.  So what you are basically saying is that no ICS M4 is capable of being upgraded to high FPS which i know is just false, but if they break they get replaced, problem solved.

 

In regards to firearm laws in the UK.  You could basically put any gun in that category with quick spring changes.  My Scorpion Evo i can take the spring out and put m170 in (Gearbox massively upgraded) in under 10 seconds and so technically making it illegal under new guidelines, so i'm not overly concerned.  I'm not going to go out in public and start shooting and my local field only requires a mosfet to lock to semi (but i'm also gonna mechanically lock it by shaving off part of the selector plate so it can't access full auto).

[Guest PT247]

My Krytac remains standard as it has a decent barrel out the box, but when I upgrade barrels I will always put in a PDI or Prommy/Laylax as second choice as compared to the other brands (that I've tried) they are far superior. Take the Madbull barrels for example, some swear by them but I have always found them to have poor QC and the finish is very weak.

If you are spending big money on cosmetics that do nothing for performance it suggests that money isn't too much an issue is why I mentioned PDI.

What you could do is get the shortest barrel you need and buy a top end version of it, then use that in the mid length gun too, saves a bit of cash as you'd not need a third hop unit either so would be a win on both counts.

[ImTriggerHappy]

Pdi is actually the be all and end all. Thats not just opinion but a tested fact and they don't need to cost the earth just order from x-fire.

 

The Ics split gearbox is a great design but its not the strongest and the gears have a habit of fracturing on high strain builds. They are brilliant guns but best left stock as ICS and aftermarket is always a bit hit and miss. The ebb split gearbox is only standard in the ebb guns and there isn't a single model ICS I havent been inside and worked on so I know my way around them pretty well as they are one of my favourite manufacturers. My main gun is an ICS SIG that has every internal part custom made except the Siegetek gears and PDI barrel.

 

As for zci they are ok for the cash but not quite as straight or even on the bore as the prommy but better than madbull and a few others.

 

[sokar666]

My Stock barrel length is 375mm (I upped the length as i hate empty space within a suppressor , it's just a personal thing).  That length is actually hard to come by, admittedly PDI do make one.

 

This was my conundrum;

 

PDI 6.05 375mm (Airlabs) £80.29

Laylax/Prometheus 6.03 363mm or 380mm (Firesupport) all between £50-£55

ZCI 6.02 363mm or 380mm (AK2M4) £19

 

As you can see the huge price difference. Now a friend of mine swears by ZCI. So the big question would be is the prommy £35 better than the ZCI and the PDI £30 better than the prommy or are we basically all arguing and fighting over actual inches of improvement or is there huge difference between them.   That's what got me thinking, for your average weekend skirmish is that extra cost relatable to performance.

 

Admittedly didn't know about x-fire. Always nice to learn new things.  I really don't want to get into PDI is better than everyone. This was performance to price comparison.

[Guest PT247]

I have the point of view that if upgrading it costs money, so if I upgrade and someone has better, then my money was wasted, therefore I put in the best I can. If budget is a constraint then go with the best you can afford.
As a thought, you mention a silencer, do you plan to run that on all the barrel lengths? If so, just get a length that will fit all, I guess standard in your current and then use longer silencers on each of the shorter ones to cover it?

[ImTriggerHappy]

If you buy a PDI get it from X-Fire. The 375mm is just under £50 +shipping it does come from Japan but still works out cheaper.

[sokar666]

4 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

If you buy a PDI get it from X-Fire. The 375mm is just under £50 +shipping it does come from Japan but still works out cheaper.

I'll remember that for future reference, if i had known it would have swayed my opinion.  I was just taking it on uk sites.

 

Money is not really an issue so if the prommy doesn't work out then yes I'll give them a go (is it www.x-fire.org)

 

Plus I have read that PDI  is a pain to r-hop, i think that's why i was leaning towards prommy and ZCI.

[ImTriggerHappy]

Yeah thats the site they are pretty good.

 

Yeah the window isnt great but it only takes 10 minutes with a file to sort out.

[Hangtight]

Bit of an aside, if you're building /planning a DMR why bother with the 455mm barrel? The cylinder only has enough volume to push decent weight BBs down a 350mm (ish) barrel.

[Guest PT247]

you will have customs and VAT on orders from x-fire so before ordering do the sums as it won't save a wedge buying direct.

[Mos]

On the topic of cylinder volumes,

 

does anyone know the Mancraft cylinder volume?

[Hangtight]

4 minutes ago, Mos said:

On the topic of cylinder volumes,

 

does anyone know the Mancraft cylinder volume?

 ~6.5cc

[Mos]

Thank you so much!

 

can finally start getting an idea of the cylinder/barrel volume ratio that is in my VSR.

 

Life saver.

[ImTriggerHappy]

4 minutes ago, PT247 said:

you will have customs and VAT on orders from x-fire so before ordering do the sums as it won't save a wedge buying direct.

Think it came to under £70 last time I ordered an M4 barrel from there which is still way cheaper than Airlab because thats probably £85 with shipping.

[sokar666]

I have 3 upper gearboxes all ready built, all set for the desired barrel length and spring strength, all teflon modded, the works.

 

The question was not barrel length, that's a personal thing.

 

The original topic was price to performance.  Will a £70-£75 PDI barrel massively out perform a £20 ZCI barrel and of course a £50 Prometheus barrel.  I wasn't after advice on which to buy.  It was more i have an issue with always wanting the best, that includes basically everything in life and i don't mind waiting and saving to acquire the best knowing i have bought the best.  What i hate is buying the best and being let down, i hate that more.  So the question is PDI performance worth the money or are we talking minor improvements.

 

As example, 3 guns, identical in every way except the barrel, each different manufacturer.  Will the extra cost equate to huge performance increase or are we basically all spreading the same info based on a mythical ethos that X brand is better because i saw a youtube video of a hit at some stupid distance.

 

I was just after what people thought, i was just using my personal build as an example.