Supporters Richard65 Posted June 16, 2013 Supporters Share Posted June 16, 2013 Da-sheriff - Either I have not made myself clear or you have not read my post properly. I would like to see a system wher you can buy a RIF if you have a valid defence. But - rather than the current system where you have to be over18 and play 3 games over not less than two months, I would like to extend this so that a player aged under 18 could get a junior membership. This would then alow their parent to have a joint membership ev en if they do not skirmish themselves. The parent would then be able to buy RIFs either just from the site where their kid is a junior member or to register with UKARA and buy online. This would not disadvatge the under 18's but would allow them to use a RIF rather than a two-tone. They would probably prefer this and so would other players who do not like to stand near someone with a brightly coloured two-tone. This would allow all genuine airsoft players to use RIFs and then two-tones would be redundant in this sport. The next step would be to reduce the power of two-tones to make them suitable as toys. It really worries me when I see a you tube video showing kids playing with two-tones with no eye protection etc. I think the airsoft sport would be stronger without two-tones. I would also like to see a legal definition of airsoft guns - using plastic bbs and a maximum fps for pistols, aegs and snipers. That might stop the retailers who sell airsoft guns as air guns based on a fps higher than allowed by most registered sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters sp00n Posted June 16, 2013 Supporters Share Posted June 16, 2013 Richard I hate to say this but that will never happen for many reasons, such as policing, costs, and how this would effect the sale of other weapons etc etc The system isn't brilliant, but it is fine ATM. Yes it dose suck to be under 18, but laws are there for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoobySnacks Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 The VCRA then allows certain defences and one of those coveras airsoft skirmishers who are over 18 years old. Not correct Richard. It is illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to BUY a RIF (hence why UKARA don't allow under 18's to register, as it is a retailers database, why should they be bothered if under 18's can't buy?) but you do NOT need to be 18 to use the defence against prosecution for manufacturing a RIF! Also remember that OWNING a RIF is not illegal in any way, it is selling that's illegal. If you are transporting your RIF, then you do not need to show any paperwork. All you need to show is good reason for having it in a public place. (yes, your car can class as a public place). This could be "I'm on my way to play" or it could be "I'm taking it to get it fixed" or even "I'm taking it to show my mate". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoobySnacks Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Orage tip = No registration required and no two tone. but would mean orange tip would have to stay on regardless. Current state = rent or two tone untill you get your ukara registration form which you can then own a realistic looking rifle with no bright tip. the two tone is a pain in the arse, but I think the registration is the better opition, mainly as it helps out should you get pulled over my police, the ability to prove on the spot that you have a reason as to why you are carrying a bb gun is nice. Not entirely true is it. You do NOT need to register with anyone to purchase a RIF. UKARA registration is just one of the simpler ways to prove your defense to the seller. It is by no means obligatory, nor is it mentioned anywhere in law. I believe when they were considering the specification for IF's they considered the orange tip, but decided it did not provide enough differentiation between an imitation and a real firearm, hence the two tone system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheriffHD Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Can people stop going over the god damn law requiring UKARA for god sake, its getting repetitive and anoying now. YES we know UKARA is not a legal requirment. But unless you are an active reinactor or a director of a film company, than a UKARA is your best defence for buying RIFs online, plus the fact as standard they accept UKARA. (on most sites you fill it in) also when importing gear having your UKARA registration number can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two_zero Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 tl;dr I feel this, like most threads complaining about two toning, is a "hurr durr since I am not registered player I rather have less of my gun painted" (like smokers complaining about non smoking zones)... noticed the jbbg profile pic anyone?? as for US, as I understand it, they have to be sold with orange tip, but it depends on state law however you need to keep it or not. I dont see the bother at all with the current system, skirmishers over 18 have unlimited access to RIFs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipxfreeze14 Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 I am quite happy with the way it is. UKARA is there for the retailers and ourselves if we need it. As long as you are over eighteen and can prove a defence you can buy an RIF. You don't need UKARA as long as you can provide a defence. But it's nice to know it is there and recognised so if the wrost happens you have a legitimate way of proving your defence to the boys in blue. I am not sure how old you are but it seems you are more bothered with the fact that it has to be someone over the age of eighteen, with a defence, who is allowed to buy an RIF? Therefore your parents cant just go and buy you an RIF. Fine keep UKARA but instead of Two-Tone use orange tips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowy70838 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Fine keep UKARA but instead of Two-Tone use orange tips The point I was trying to make is that it isn't UKARA or any other defence that is your issue. Being under age means the law is your issue. So if you really don't like it write to your MP and explain the issue and why the law should be changed. Get enough people interested then you may even get somewhere. Just slagging off UKARA isn't going to help your cause, especially when it isn't the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_awol Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Fine keep UKARA but instead of Two-Tone use orange tips Why? Just so under 18s could have RIFs? Ever think there might be a reason why they shouldn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two_zero Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Fine keep UKARA but instead of Two-Tone use orange tips ...can't I just stick to my black guns without orange tips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Richard65 Posted June 18, 2013 Supporters Share Posted June 18, 2013 Fine keep UKARA but instead of Two-Tone use orange tips Despite all the replies you still seem to be getting confused between UKARA and the VCRA. Scrapping UKARA would not allow anyone under 18 (or over 18 without a valid defence) to buy a RIF - it would just remove a simple system that allows a retailer to check that they will not be breaking the law when selling a RIF. The regulations covering two-tones is in the VCRA and you would need to get that changed iif you wanted orange tips instead of full two-tones. for that you would need to get the support of your MP and probably get a petition going. Why not spend a bit of time gaining some knowledge about all this - maybe rewad the information on this forum or on the UKAPU site:- http://www.ukapu.org.uk/wordpress/guide-to-airsoft/#Buying%20Airsoft%20Replicas%20and%20the%20VCRA You may even find that the system does not need changing as genuine airsoft skirmishers can have RIFs without too much trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowy70838 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Despite all the replies you still seem to be getting confused between UKARA and the VCRA. Scrapping UKARA would not allow anyone under 18 (or over 18 without a valid defence) to buy a RIF - it would just remove a simple system that allows a retailer to check that they will not be breaking the law when selling a RIF. The regulations covering two-tones is in the VCRA and you would need to get that changed iif you wanted orange tips instead of full two-tones. for that you would need to get the support of your MP and probably get a petition going. Why not spend a bit of time gaining some knowledge about all this - maybe rewad the information on this forum or on the UKAPU site:- http://www.ukapu.org.uk/wordpress/guide-to-airsoft/#Buying%20Airsoft%20Replicas%20and%20the%20VCRA You may even find that the system does not need changing as genuine airsoft skirmishers can have RIFs without too much trouble. Exactly. It is the law that is the issue on the case here as being under 18 is the reason he cannot own an RIF. Nothing to do with UKARA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoobySnacks Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Snowy, he can OWN one, he just can't buy one (or any IF in fact). Richard, the retailer is always breaking the law when selling a RIF. It is only the specific defences that allow them to do so without being prosecuted. It's a strange way of organising things, but it's the best we have at the moment. And I say we cannot have enough threads about this. The day we stop getting them is the day everybody understands them. If people don't understand then they need to ask, and we need to explain. If you're bored by them then easy, don't read them, but don't try and stop them. New people need to learn from somewhere or the hobby won't last long! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowy70838 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Snowy, he can OWN one, he just can't buy one (or any IF in fact). Richard, the retailer is always breaking the law when selling a RIF. It is only the specific defences that allow them to do so without being prosecuted. It's a strange way of organising things, but it's the best we have at the moment. And I say we cannot have enough threads about this. The day we stop getting them is the day everybody understands them. If people don't understand then they need to ask, and we need to explain. If you're bored by them then easy, don't read them, but don't try and stop them. New people need to learn from somewhere or the hobby won't last long! That is news to me. As far as I can tell the LAW, not UKARA, states you have to be over eighteen to purchase an RIF. To own something you generally have to buy it. I don't think the law allows you to give an RIF to an under eighteen either. So I am not to sure how he would own one legally. Besides the point of his original post was to be able to find a way for under eighteens to buy an RIF himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoobySnacks Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Snowy, thanks for proving my point! You're correct that it is the law that makes purchasing, or attempting to purchase, a RIF illegal if you are under 18. However, with respect to gifting you are entirely wrong. It is perfectly legal to gift a RIF or IF to an under 18. It is merely selling that has all the restrictions. Once a RIF is owned, you can dispose of it how you please, as long as you take no payment for it. If you do take payment for it then all of the selling rules apply to you, as much as they would to a retailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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