Could this show airsoft in a bad light?

[E21A]

Just look at me

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Id rather not 

 

[Vulpiness]

And as for ASW, strategically it does overlap with a land campaign.  However, on a tactical level it clearly does not.  As for my bona fides my Vulipness, I am a currently serving RAF Military Police  Officer whose current posting just happens to involve a major project which has all of the tactical data links that Chesseright mentioned. 

If you don't understand the difference between Tactical, Operational and Strategic levels of warfare may I suggest a quick trip to Staff College?

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operational isn't the same as strategic? well I feel dumb. 
I'd love a trip to staff collage, but sadly the NHS won't give me any fucking estrogen, and hasn't for the last 5 years so I'm stuck on civvy street. :/
 

 my Vulipness

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*Swoons* 

 

[jcheeseright]

The problem with the cheesewright, is you supply absolutely no information what so ever, all we get is take it form me and an as unsubstantiated claim as seths, which since I've never met you, I'm not willing to take on trust, you could be 12 for all I know. 

I'm asking you to explain, and I supplied my thoughts on the subject for you point out flaws with.

I am willing to be convinced, but you put no points fourth, you're the expert, so lets hear it. 

Perhaps a historic example: battle of the Atlantic, allied supplied ships are being harassed and sunk by German u-boats, these ships carry vital food and weapons needed for the land campaign in North Africa.. 

Ergo -to my mind-  the lack of effectiveness of anti-submarine marine warfare at the time, contributed to the problems and challenges present in the land campaign.

I'm not seeing how that's not the two overlapping. 

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There's no W in my name. 

What you're talking about is how submarines can have an effect upon the greater logistics of warfare, if you're going down that line Seth K needs to start simulating macroeconomics and poor defence policy too!  When it comes to actually fighting those battles the pre-logistics are utterly irrelevant, you either have the requisite equipment or you do not.  

Submarines can effect shipping and suchlike very effectively, but this still does not have any impact on how the specifics of anti-submarine warfare are conducted (SONAR doesn't 'ping' anymore and depth charges haven't been a thing for destroying submarines for a few decades now, though they do still have uses in some very specific scenarios).  

I can see where you're coming from, but the allocation of resources to finding and killing a submarine don't cross over with the resources required to fight a land battle, in addition the submarine itself cannot have any tangible effect on the land battle (submarine launched missiles are a thing, yes, but the second it breaks the surface that's an AIR threat, not a submarine threat). 

My credentials on this are as mentioned above, I have spent many years teaching basic and advanced anti submarine warfare for the Royal Navy in my capacity as an instructor at the Royal Navy School of Aircraft Control at RNAS Yeovilton, the Maritime Warfare School at HMS Collingwood and during a short stint at Flag Officer Sea Training at HMS Drake.  I've hunted Russian submarines in the North Sea, English Channel, Mediterranean and Atlantic and I've hunted Chinese submarines across the Indian Ocean. 

As for what kind of work SethK thinks he's going to be bidding for I have no idea, giant exercises with air/land/sea interoperability happen at least twice a year in the UK with massive take up from other NATO nations and the infrastructure required to plan and direct those exercises already exists.  As far as simulation goes BAE have us covered with a network of multifunction simulator suites that can be networked with each other and with real units, the MOD spent literally millions of pounds on these and I can't imagine a bloke with a shiny website and some Youtube links being able to convince the MOD that some airsoft guns are going to add anything to the party!

Can you trust someone who takes a selfie with a Lama?!

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It's an alpaca you bigot!

Maybe, but he comes across as a complete c*nt

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I don't mince my words to be 'nice' to people on the internet, if that makes me a cunt, then I am a cunt. 

 

[SgtTalbert]

There's no W in my name. 

What you're talking about is how submarines can have an effect upon the greater logistics of warfare, if you're going down that line Seth K needs to start simulating macroeconomics and poor defence policy too!  When it comes to actually fighting those battles the pre-logistics are utterly irrelevant, you either have the requisite equipment or you do not.  

Submarines can effect shipping and suchlike very effectively, but this still does not have any impact on how the specifics of anti-submarine warfare are conducted (SONAR doesn't 'ping' anymore and depth charges haven't been a thing for destroying submarines for a few decades now, though they do still have uses in some very specific scenarios).  

I can see where you're coming from, but the allocation of resources to finding and killing a submarine don't cross over with the resources required to fight a land battle, in addition the submarine itself cannot have any tangible effect on the land battle (submarine launched missiles are a thing, yes, but the second it breaks the surface that's an AIR threat, not a submarine threat). 

My credentials on this are as mentioned above, I have spent many years teaching basic and advanced anti submarine warfare for the Royal Navy in my capacity as an instructor at the Royal Navy School of Aircraft Control at RNAS Yeovilton, the Maritime Warfare School at HMS Collingwood and during a short stint at Flag Officer Sea Training at HMS Drake.  I've hunted Russian submarines in the North Sea, English Channel, Mediterranean and Atlantic and I've hunted Chinese submarines across the Indian Ocean. 

As for what kind of work SethK thinks he's going to be bidding for I have no idea, giant exercises with air/land/sea interoperability happen at least twice a year in the UK with massive take up from other NATO nations and the infrastructure required to plan and direct those exercises already exists.  As far as simulation goes BAE have us covered with a network of multifunction simulator suites that can be networked with each other and with real units, the MOD spent literally millions of pounds on these and I can't imagine a bloke with a shiny website and some Youtube links being able to convince the MOD that some airsoft guns are going to add anything to the party!

It's an alpaca you bigot!

I don't mince my words to be 'nice' to people on the internet, if that makes me a cunt, then I am a cunt. 

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They all look the same to me!

Also I don't think he was calling you a cunt, more the guy who was trolling Trigger.

I miss Yeovilton, did 3yrs Stewarding there in the officers mess (Civvy role whilst at College). Also did (forget the name) but the 'Officer Introduction' weekend. Escaping the helicopter in the pool was a good laugh 

 

[Eddie The Headshot]

The Battle Royale will bring attention to the sport and attract new players.  I don't see how that will be a bad thing?

 

[Wo1f]

The Battle Royale will bring attention to the sport and attract new players.  I don't see how that will be a bad thing?

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Because I’ve found the type of people that talk about fortnight and call of duty in the safe zone are the same people who cheat and overkill in games. 

Instead of playing 3 games and being given a little number to buy RIFS, you should play 3 games and have the whole enemy team judge you at the end of each day. If you’re found not to be an annoyance you’ll be issued with your NAAC licence and you can buy RIFS. 

 

[Eddie The Headshot]

Because I’ve found the type of people that talk about fortnight and call of duty in the safe zone are the same people who cheat and overkill in games. 

Instead of playing 3 games and being given a little number to buy RIFS, you should play 3 games and have the whole enemy team judge you at the end of each day. If you’re found not to be an annoyance you’ll be issued with your NAAC licence and you can buy RIFS. 

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I'm not denying that it will attract some wankers, to the sports.  But it will draw in some good folks to.  Its a give take that can't be controlled.  In order for the sport to grow it need new fans to become intrested and want to play.  Theres no litmus test to tell who is a jerk,  so they can be turned away and who is cool to let in the club.  The only thing you have control over is yourself and how you choose to deal with the influx of new blood.

 

[Vulpiness]

There's no W in my name. 

What you're talking about is how submarines can have an effect upon the greater logistics of warfare, if you're going down that line Seth K needs to start simulating macroeconomics and poor defence policy too!  When it comes to actually fighting those battles the pre-logistics are utterly irrelevant, you either have the requisite equipment or you do not.  

Submarines can effect shipping and suchlike very effectively, but this still does not have any impact on how the specifics of anti-submarine warfare are conducted (SONAR doesn't 'ping' anymore and depth charges haven't been a thing for destroying submarines for a few decades now, though they do still have uses in some very specific scenarios).  

I can see where you're coming from, but the allocation of resources to finding and killing a submarine don't cross over with the resources required to fight a land battle, in addition the submarine itself cannot have any tangible effect on the land battle (submarine launched missiles are a thing, yes, but the second it breaks the surface that's an AIR threat, not a submarine threat). 

My credentials on this are as mentioned above, I have spent many years teaching basic and advanced anti submarine warfare for the Royal Navy in my capacity as an instructor at the Royal Navy School of Aircraft Control at RNAS Yeovilton, the Maritime Warfare School at HMS Collingwood and during a short stint at Flag Officer Sea Training at HMS Drake.  I've hunted Russian submarines in the North Sea, English Channel, Mediterranean and Atlantic and I've hunted Chinese submarines across the Indian Ocean. 

As for what kind of work SethK thinks he's going to be bidding for I have no idea, giant exercises with air/land/sea interoperability happen at least twice a year in the UK with massive take up from other NATO nations and the infrastructure required to plan and direct those exercises already exists.  As far as simulation goes BAE have us covered with a network of multifunction simulator suites that can be networked with each other and with real units, the MOD spent literally millions of pounds on these and I can't imagine a bloke with a shiny website and some Youtube links being able to convince the MOD that some airsoft guns are going to add anything to the party!

It's an alpaca you bigot!

I don't mince my words to be 'nice' to people on the internet, if that makes me a cunt, then I am a cunt. 

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Thank you Cheeseright. 

 

[EvilMonkee]

@jcheeseright, wasn't on about you was referring to Duff me ol'fishead

 

[E21A]

(SONAR doesn't 'ping' anymore and depth charges haven't been a thing for destroying submarines for a few decades now, though they do still have uses in some very specific scenarios).  

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Just out of interest ( as you clearly know what you’re on about) how do you destroy a submarine these days? 

 

[SgtTalbert]

Just out of interest ( as you clearly know what you’re on about) how do you destroy a submarine these days? 

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Open a window or hatch would normally do it pretty quickly

 

[Rogerborg]

But I'm not even sure what the topic is anymore

Click to shrink...

 

[jcheeseright]

Just out of interest ( as you clearly know what you’re on about) how do you destroy a submarine these days? 

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Air launched torpedo with an active seeker head.  

 

[L3wisD]

Just out of interest ( as you clearly know what you’re on about) how do you destroy a submarine these days? 

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Outside @E21As house later today:

 

[Lozart]

My credentials on this are as mentioned above, I have spent many years teaching basic and advanced anti submarine warfare for the Royal Navy in my capacity as an instructor at the Royal Navy School of Aircraft Control at RNAS Yeovilton, the Maritime Warfare School at HMS Collingwood and during a short stint at Flag Officer Sea Training at HMS Drake.  I've hunted Russian submarines in the North Sea, English Channel, Mediterranean and Atlantic and I've hunted Chinese submarines across the Indian Ocean. 

Click to shrink...

Is Synthetic Aperture Radar for remote sensing of submerged wake still a thing? Worked on that at Farnborough in my youth...

 

[Seth_Erebor]

There's no W in my name. 

What you're talking about is how submarines can have an effect upon the greater logistics of warfare, if you're going down that line Seth K needs to start simulating macroeconomics and poor defence policy too!  When it comes to actually fighting those battles the pre-logistics are utterly irrelevant, you either have the requisite equipment or you do not.  

Submarines can effect shipping and suchlike very effectively, but this still does not have any impact on how the specifics of anti-submarine warfare are conducted (SONAR doesn't 'ping' anymore and depth charges haven't been a thing for destroying submarines for a few decades now, though they do still have uses in some very specific scenarios).  

I can see where you're coming from, but the allocation of resources to finding and killing a submarine don't cross over with the resources required to fight a land battle, in addition the submarine itself cannot have any tangible effect on the land battle (submarine launched missiles are a thing, yes, but the second it breaks the surface that's an AIR threat, not a submarine threat). 

My credentials on this are as mentioned above, I have spent many years teaching basic and advanced anti submarine warfare for the Royal Navy in my capacity as an instructor at the Royal Navy School of Aircraft Control at RNAS Yeovilton, the Maritime Warfare School at HMS Collingwood and during a short stint at Flag Officer Sea Training at HMS Drake.  I've hunted Russian submarines in the North Sea, English Channel, Mediterranean and Atlantic and I've hunted Chinese submarines across the Indian Ocean. 

As for what kind of work SethK thinks he's going to be bidding for I have no idea, giant exercises with air/land/sea interoperability happen at least twice a year in the UK with massive take up from other NATO nations and the infrastructure required to plan and direct those exercises already exists.  As far as simulation goes BAE have us covered with a network of multifunction simulator suites that can be networked with each other and with real units, the MOD spent literally millions of pounds on these and I can't imagine a bloke with a shiny website and some Youtube links being able to convince the MOD that some airsoft guns are going to add anything to the party!

It's an alpaca you bigot!

I don't mince my words to be 'nice' to people on the internet, if that makes me a cunt, then I am a cunt. 

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I agree 100% on all counts, including the ones directed at myself which are reasonable observations.

In other business, how would we help to direct the attitude in airsoft? I feel this deserves it's on thread.

It seems to be a wider cultural issue, so might be too big of an issue to tackle.

Someone mentioned being judged by the enemy team, there is something to that, earning mutual respect would be a great way to go. The game itself has to change, moving away from just hits being the be all and end all. 

 

[Rogerborg]

The game itself has to change, moving away from just hits being the be all and end all. 

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Almost all of the games that I play at my local site notionally have some objective like find/capture/defuse/escort the McGuffin which could be achieved with strong teamplay, good communication, and minimal actual shooting.

Most of the players seem to soon forget that and just start wandering around shooting each other.  Twice a day (before lunch and last game) the achievement or otherwise of the objective typically isn't even reported.

And yet, the site is constantly and heavily over-subscribed and sells out a month in advance.

Never mind the what or how for now: why should they change?  Player are demonstrably happy enough just shooting each other with toy guns.

 

[Seth_Erebor]

Almost all of the games that I play at my local site notionally have some objective like find/capture/defuse/escort the McGuffin which could be achieved with strong teamplay, good communication, and minimal actual shooting.

Most of of the players seem to soon forget that and just start wandering around shooting each other.  Twice a day (before lunch and last game) the achievement or otherwise of the objective typically isn't even reported.

And yet, the site is constantly and heavily over-subscribed and sells out a month in advance.

Never mind the what or how for now: why should they change?  Player are demonstrably happy enough just shooting each other with toy guns.

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That will always be the core of the experience, however, to ensure we foster a great community spirit is would be wise to encourage behavior that causes players to think about the team as a whole and not solely their own gratification.

I do have some ideas on how to do that, you know I like to add suggestions and not just general goals, but we'd be going over old ground.

Let's look elsewhere for an example, if the Call of Duty crowd is not desirable, what current group is the opposite to them?

 

[Wo1f]

You could fix the whole Airsoft community simply by banning mid/high caps.

i had an amazing game at the weekend, but there was a guy who was pissing me right off and he was on my own team. His answer to everything was to full auto an entire midcap at a player. One of their team tried to outflank us but we spotted her. She was behind a bush maybe 20m to our north west. The guy literally emptied and entire 100+ round midcap into it and couldn’t hear her shout hit or see her behind the bush over the noise of his gun. There’s no need for that shit. 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

You could fix the whole Airsoft community simply by banning mid/high caps.

i had an amazing game at the weekend, but there was a guy who was pissing me right off and he was on my own team. His answer to everything was to full auto an entire midcap at a player. One of their team tried to outflank us but we spotted her. She was behind a bush maybe 20m to our north west. The guy literally emptied and entire 100+ round midcap into it and couldn’t hear her shout hit or see her behind the bush over the noise of his gun. There’s no need for that shit. 

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see that's not a problem with the equipment but the player, send a single shot/short burst first then move to mag dumping if it's really required.

smaller capacity magazines will just mean he'll switch to using a drum or just carry more.