Could this show airsoft in a bad light?

[Tackle]

Never mind the what or how for now: why should they change?  Player are demonstrably happy enough just shooting each other with toy guns.

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Nothing better than a good old game of attack & defend, or capture the flag etc, what's the point of over complicated scenarios that half the punters are struggling to remember, while the other half haven't got a scooby cos they were chatting through the briefing etc.

Also, & this might just be my opinion ?, but I sometimes feel that the way some games & sites are hyped up is encouraging the excessive behaviour of some "operators", players, & sometimes whole teams that take it waaaay to seriously, forgetting that it's just meant to be a bit of fun, instead being overly aggressive in their playing style & attitude towards others players, as if they really are fighting the siege at fallujah or some other bollocks.

Dont get me wrong, I'll gladly crush the windpipe of some twat who gets in my face unnecessarily, but I shouldn't have to, I turn up for some simple gameplay at a well run site that hopefully has some decent features.

just seems to be getting harder to do these days

 

[Seth_Erebor]

You could fix the whole Airsoft community simply by banning mid/high caps.

i had an amazing game at the weekend, but there was a guy who was pissing me right off and he was on my own team. His answer to everything was to full auto an entire midcap at a player. One of their team tried to outflank us but we spotted her. She was behind a bush maybe 20m to our north west. The guy literally emptied and entire 100+ round midcap into it and couldn’t hear her shout hit or see her behind the bush over the noise of his gun. There’s no need for that shit. 

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We covered this before and I recall coming to the conclusion that 60rnds is a good balance, which is a 2x handicap over real steel.

Now to get a 60rnd SCAR-H mag from PTS to test it.

 

[EvilMonkee]

I agree 100% on all counts, including the ones directed at myself which are reasonable observations.

In other business, how would we help to direct the attitude in airsoft? I feel this deserves it's on thread.

It seems to be a wider cultural issue, so might be too big of an issue to tackle.

Someone mentioned being judged by the enemy team, there is something to that, earning mutual respect would be a great way to go. The game itself has to change, moving away from just hits being the be all and end all. 

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And this is why I go to historical Film Sim games mostly, the emphasis is on the LARPy aspects and the uniforms and the story rather than OMFG I got 20 kills and died once skirmish day bullshit.

 

[EvilMonkee]

You could fix the whole Airsoft community simply by banning mid/high caps.

i had an amazing game at the weekend, but there was a guy who was pissing me right off and he was on my own team. His answer to everything was to full auto an entire midcap at a player. One of their team tried to outflank us but we spotted her. She was behind a bush maybe 20m to our north west. The guy literally emptied and entire 100+ round midcap into it and couldn’t hear her shout hit or see her behind the bush over the noise of his gun. There’s no need for that shit. 

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Fairly certain thats called 'Shooting to yield' and should be against most sites rules, certainly is at Gunman events.

 

[Wo1f]

see that's not a problem with the equipment but the player, send a single shot/short burst first then move to mag dumping if it's really required.

smaller capacity magazines will just mean he'll switch to using a drum or just carry more.

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Yeah, but it’s more politically correct than banning the people who do it, who all seem to fit a certain profile. Its embarrassingly accurate to the point if someone complains of being overshot or general shit gameplay I can describe them without ever having seen them.  

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Yeah, but it’s more politically correct than banning the people who do it, who all seem to fit a certain profile. Its embarrassingly accurate to the point if someone complains of being overshot or general shit gameplay I can describe them without ever having seen them.  

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eh, i don't really care for the political correctness of it, if you're a bad player you're a bad player. just make sure you're banning people for their actions rather than pre-emptively.

if it's any consolation i know the type you're referring to and in my experience they have a habit of not knowing how to set a hop unit right (which just adds fuel to their rage when their ammo gets skied over their potential victim)

 

[Seth_Erebor]

eh, i don't really care for the political correctness of it, if you're a bad player you're a bad player. just make sure you're banning people for their actions rather than pre-emptively.

if it's any consolation i know the type you're referring to and in my experience they have a habit of not knowing how to set a hop unit right (which just adds fuel to their rage when their ammo gets skied over their potential victim)

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In relation to your second paragraph, I am in favour of taking Airsoft a tad bit more seriously and changing the 3 game rule to a pass/fail system.

It would include a few basics, like the hop-up, wind, estimating range, etc

A bit like a CBT course, 1-day and simple. Done right it could make the world of difference in directing a new player in the right direction.

 

[Rogerborg]

That will always be the core of the experience, however, to ensure we foster a great community spirit is would be wise to encourage behavior that causes players to think about the team as a whole and not solely their own gratification.

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I actually agree.

One thing I've seen tried was to make the first game of the day "find the drug blocks".  They're stashed in a box that can be raided, which is usually how that game is won.

The twist was that they then kept the blocks in play throughout the day.  So you could be doing a VIP escort, then suddenly realise that your stash was being raided half way across the site.

It was an intriguing idea, and I'm glad to see it tried.  Where it fell down a bit was a somewhat haphazard scoring system, and no announcement at the end of the day who won overall.  That could have been addressed with scores-on-the-board at the safe zone entrance. 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

In relation to your second paragraph, I am in favour of taking Airsoft a tad bit more seriously and changing the 3 game rule to a pass/fail system.

It would include a few basic, like the hop-up, wind, estimating range, etc

A bit like a CBT course, 1-day and simple. Done right it could make the world of difference in directing a new player in the right direction.

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these folks aren't "new" players generally, and often they can have quite high end hardware, just no understanding of how it works.

i don't mind it that much, if i see a decent player struggling with hardware i'll stop and let them know, but if someone's hosing everything in sight and screaming about people not taking hits when their gun's hopping into space i won't encourage them by offering help.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

In relation to your second paragraph, I am in favour of taking Airsoft a tad bit more seriously and changing the 3 game rule to a pass/fail system.

It would include a few basics, like the hop-up, wind, estimating range, etc

A bit like a CBT course, 1-day and simple. Done right it could make the world of difference in directing a new player in the right direction.

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Er.........................just no 

Airsoft is not serious, it is not a military simulation it is just fucking hide and seek with a bb gun.

 

[Wo1f]

Er.........................just no 

Airsoft is not serious, it is not a military simulation it is just fucking hide and seek with a bb gun.

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It’s not serious, but at the same time, there should be a level of decency and professionalism, like in any sport. 

And as we’re not being politically correct.. it is ALWAYS some obese tosser with no camo and either a HPA setup or some sort of firehawk type thing with coloured bling bits on. Doesn’t matter what site, cqb or woodland. If someone complains of being overshot, give them that description and your response will always be “that’s the guy! You’ve seen him too?!” 

For me, it’s not about the pain but the harm. I got tagged in the face on Saturday by a sniper that put me on my ass from a crouching position. Hurt like hell but I stood up and shouted to him that was an amazing shot. At the same time, seeing someone hose someone down and I just think what is the point of that? I know there’s different ‘play styles’, but there’s really no need for that shit. 

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

It’s not serious, but at the same time, there should be a level of decency and professionalism, like in any sport. 

And as we’re not being politically correct.. it is ALWAYS some obese tosser with no camo and either a HPA setup or some sort of firehawk type thing with coloured bling bits on. Doesn’t matter what site, cqb or woodland. If someone complains of being overshot, give them that description and your response will always be “that’s the guy! You’ve seen him too?!” 

For me, it’s not about the pain but the harm. I got tagged in the face on Saturday by a sniper that put me on my ass from a crouching position. Hurt like hell but I stood up and shouted to him that was an amazing shot. At the same time, seeing someone hose someone down and I just think what is the point of that? I know there’s different ‘play styles’, but there’s really no need for that shit. 

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For one it is not a sport it's a hobby. There are levels of decency and they are covered in the site rules. If players do not follow them then the site should remove them. If this doesn't occur then that is the sites fault and it is time to vote with your feet.

A competency test is a daft idea. Most players after even 10yrs can't set a bloody hop properly so there is no hope for a new guy. But the main point is this is all meant to be fun and adding tests is just bad form.

As for generalisations lets not go there as everyone has different viewpoints on it and the loudest are always from those that are generally the real problem. There is no winner so best left I think.

 

[Wo1f]

You’re playing a game and there’s a winning and loosing team. Isn’t that the definition of a sport? The site I play at is beyond fantastic. I had the best game I’ve played in years on Saturday. It’s just one or two individuals, and it’s always the same type of people. It’s hard to Marshall overkill. Over 60 players all spread out over a massive woodland. I think there’s a difference between rules and sportsmanship. 

If you cant adjust a hop up then you’ve no right playing. Because again, these are the people that shout ‘I’m hitting them, and they’re not taking their hits!’ I don’t care what sport or hobby you do, if you can’t do the basics then you don’t play the game. You don’t put an amateur on a motocross bike and just send him on the track, you don’t let a snowboarder go off the highest slip for the first time. It’s not safe for them or others. 

Everyone does have different viewpoints. All I’m saying is every time there’s a complaint, it’s directed at that sort of person. Maybe the dozens of incidents over the years are all a mysterious coincidence?

 

[Aengus]

Everyone does have different viewpoints. All I’m saying is every time there’s a complaint, it’s directed at that sort of person. Maybe the dozens of incidents over the years are all a mysterious coincidence?

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Have you ever heard of confirmation bias?

Whenever I see broad strokes it's always directed at the most easily identified players e.g. hpa, no camo, not larpy gun etc etc. Does make me wonder if they truly are more of a problem than others or just far easier to remember.

 

[Wo1f]

When it’s the opposite team it’s easy to say that. When it’s the guy besides you on your own team, it’s not bias, it’s a fact. 

 

[Jedi_Master]

these folks aren't "new" players generally, and often they can have quite high end hardware, just no understanding of how it works.

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No idea how it works, apart from the TM magic inside. Load a mag, point the thin end at other team and pew pew pew until it clicks .

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

You’re playing a game and there’s a winning and loosing team. Isn’t that the definition of a sport? 

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It could be and it can also be the definition of "Call of Duty" so.......

As for cant adjust a hop then no right playing to be honest I would rather play alongside someone with a badly set hop than someone with such an elitist attitude. That whole attitude is the biggest problem in airsoft. I love playing alongside rentals, kids and even speedsofters because I love the enthusiasm people like that have. Also the fact I see the whole thing as stupid fun means I never take any of it serious. 

The only winners in airsoft are the guy an girls who are smiling. 

But I will tell you this and this is from playing and marshalling that the worst players I have ever encountered do not fit into your demographic. 

 

[Druid799]

I am a currently serving RAF Military Police Officer 

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Holy crap ! He’s a crab airways car pass checker ! ?

???

 

[Wo1f]

@ImTriggerHappy they’re called E sports and there’s huge prize money... Fishing for me is a hobby, but it can also be a sport. 

Im not an elitist. Every time I’m shot I congratulate the guy or girl who shot me. I always take my hits, even if it could have been a ricochet. I’ve got a massive respect for the young/ new players who play aggressively and with enthusiasm. 

What im saying is the people who play badly and are unsportsmanlike seem to always seem to be the same type of people. And instead of just throwing someone to the wolves for 3 games, why not educate them in getting the most out of the gun, and how to play with a level of decency. That way, nobody is pissed off and they end up with a better experience 

 

[Druid799]

 The game itself has to change, moving away from just hits being the be all and end all. 

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Simple question for you , Why ?

This is my 19th yr of playing and during that time the ‘be all and end all’ has always been (and god hope it never changes) just hit the other player first , there’s always some kind of theme or objective to the game but the only real reason ultimately for the game is ‘take out’ the other team .

That will always be the core of the experience, however, to ensure we foster a great community spirit is would be wise to encourage behavior that causes players to think about the team as a whole and not solely their own gratification.

I do have some ideas on how to do that, you know I like to add suggestions and not just general goals, but we'd be going over old ground.

Let's look elsewhere for an example, if the Call of Duty crowd is not desirable, what current group is the opposite to them?

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Again I say why ? As tackle said nothing more fun than a simple attack and defend game , there the best ! And as Rogerborg also said you can start out with good intentions of missions and goals but eventually most players are just playing team death match and small number are still playing the objective of the game ! 

If a player really wants more structure to there game (I certainly don’t ) then there’s more than enough companies already catering to that market via ‘mil-sim’ games .

Ultimately for my self , and it’s fair to say most of the very good friends I’ve made through airsofting the objective is to socialize with the group , decompress from the pressures of normal life by shooting each other and then having a bloody good laugh about it in the safezone ? For me it’s a very good example of an “ if it ain’t broke , don’t try and fix it !” Scenario .