GenuineGerman

This is opening up a whole new can of worms 🐛 😆

I use my re-enactment membership and PLI to buy RIF's

https://prefired.co.uk/ads/ghk-m4-see-video/ Maybe it’s because I’m tight but £350 without a mag

Absolutely terrible news RIP

I believe so but then apparently zigzig Sputnik now also isn’t going to campaign for a 1J limit from what was written on here

“Ex soldier owns everyone” namesnicco? KM’s sidekick NamesNicco? Nah never heard of him 😆

I think we really should finish this whole debate now. What a great range of views we have and some absolutely smart people. Well done all Now can we go back now to chuttering about KM and calling out over priced pew pews?

Well thankfully not in your life but I’d like to think you understand the point I make before dismissing it completely. Nothing wrong with being cautious but assumption can cause real issues

I don’t think people are saying that. I think the point that they are making is as a viable fire arm for use they aren’t very good.

I don't think I've said that i think we should all be walking around carrying guns just in case. My argument was that we should be allowed to apply to have any weapon. If its come across like that i apologise and would like to clarify that position. I completely agree with your point it would be very sad if you had to carry a weapon around with you just to feel safe. There will always be an element of society that can't abide by the rules and will break laws be it knives, guns, drugs, fraud. Buy heroin you are funding Islamic extremism, buy cocaine you fund the cartels. Where does it stop The reality is its all of big shitty chain of horrible people. But i still have faith in human nature because the good outnumber the bad . And you can't treat good people like they are bad. They did and the SED shat themselves and decided just in case anyone else wants to leave we are going to wall you in. Practical experience causes me to worry about the just in case argument because it will always give you a reason to deprive someone of something. The UK has a proud history of democracy which is rightly deserved but What if

It’s also very easy to conceal a clasp knife or a small kitchen knife

im not specifically talking about soviet or Russians what im saying is the the SED in East German decided they did think people were going to come back to East Germany after taking a trip to the west so they decided to build a massive wall, man it with armed guards .just to err on the side of caution. To me erring on the side of caution is totally undemocratic and criminalises whole populations.

Soviet Bloc countries erred on the side of caution and we called them undemocratic. I would readily admit its not but if you ban knives then you haven't got knives or guns so problem solved? Probably not because the bad guys would fashion knives or 3d print guns. I believe this is correct for the most however like anything im sure there are exceptions. My mate does pheasant shooting, expensive hobby for sure. However i agree with your premise hunting in the UK isn't as big as the US or in Europe. Yeah i think you're absolutely right, some will be for some against however other things we will whole heartedly agree on. I'm very clear that the laws in this country won't ever change to loosen gun control and will only get tighter as time goes on. My argument really stems from the erosion of freedoms we have and laws that are created to protect us from evils doers end up hurting law abiding people more. Guns yeah if they banned them all so what we can carry on with out them what about the lunatic with a CYMA MP5 who robs his local post office or the Lad with his Glock 17 using it the park to impress his mates. Before long they will be coming for us.

oh controversial, I rate Timothy Dalton quite highly

Yeah that right however i believe one of the tabloids was campaigning for him not to be charged, however he rightly go punished for that. I think to a certain extent it carries true that you know who the violent drunk is before they are drunk but this is doesn't change the fact they still commit violent crime. I remember that episode, i think it was early 90's and i imagine its probably on the tube somewhere and yes knife crime does scare me so my thinking: I actually would not like to see open or concealed carry in the UK, i don't think this benefits anyone and could cause avoidable situations situations. My argument for the AR15 simply is that you should be able to apply for one and then the police will decide if you need one, i suspect if you could do this now hardly anyone would have one. What use does a gun have? So I would say that in the UK people enjoy shooting, hunting surely this is a good enough reason to have a gun? Knives are useful as well in hunting, woodworking and many other things however I'm trying to apply the same logic to knives and alcohol and can be applied to guns. If there were 516,000 Gun crimes in the UK in 2019 you'd be compelled to ban guns. I don't believe knife crime is being portrayed as hyperbole statements by the press, you can put knife crime as percentage and make it seem smaller than it is however if there were 47349 gun related crimes in the UK for 2019 would you say its still scewed by the news? The reason knife crime scares me so much (I live near Birmingham in one of the suburbs) that even where i live just before Christmas we had armed police patrolling as there were bands of youths armed with machetes and samurai swords terrifying residents. I don't live on some dodgy estate and even if I did nobody should live with the threat of be stabbed. These knives aren't licensed i I think you're correct with regards to licensing but then it strikes of the attitude of the police these day "everyone is a criminal they just haven't committed a crime yet, everyone is just a breakdown away from mass murder" How about have a bit of faith in humanity and knowing that just because I'm having a tough time with the missus doesn't mean I'm going to go out and start killing anyone.

@Druid799 some really great points there and I understand your reasoning. I believe a farmer was convicted a fair old while ago for killing a young burglar with an illegally held shotgun. I personally don’t think saying that banning alcohol or Smoking is puerile and my reason being the following. I should say that smoking is self inflicted and would completely agree on that however I think with alcohol it’s a different argument. Let’s take guns out of argument briefly 39% of the 516,000 odd violent crimes last year in England and Wales where alcohol related so for me there is an argument to for banning alcohol as one third of people who commit Violent crimes under the influence of alcohol. Bearing in mind this is violent crime not drink driving or just being drunk in public. Would this statistic be worse if people had guns? Possibly I think you could argue it would be quite reasonably. However the of these 200,000 odd victims of terrible crimes how many could have prevented a crime happening to them if they were armed? I’m not saying they fired a weapon but even just the implied threat of it being used can be a deterrent. Again we can’t measure this as there isn’t any data and I’m only surmising. I also agree that we don’t have a gun problem in the UK because they aren’t readily available but we do have a knife problem, a very serious one. I understand the reasoning for needing knives and wouldn’t call for them to be banned but a knife is still a lethal weapon as is a gun in the wrong hands. Now if we consider that like someone mentioned on here that the average knife used in a stabbing in this country is a kitchen knife that you can buy at a supermarket these are scarily easily available yet people argue that a knife is just a tool. Well so is a gun isn’t it? thankfully criminals tend to use guns against other criminals but knife crime in this country scares me genuinely so let’s regulate knife sales properly and make sure that people can’t just buy a samurai sword unless they have a good enough reason for it. Kitchen knives will have to kept in a safe and you will need to sign them out and in every time you use them. Sounds pretty stupid but then can be lethal can’t they? So joe public shouldn’t have knives either because the statistics prove they can’t be trusted and alcohol as well because they can’t be trusted. Would you ban knifes? Would you ban alcohol? I think the UK does have very good gun laws however I just think that if someone wants AR15 they should at least be allowed to apply to have one. If they get one or not depends on the authorities then.

As the chaps have said on here if UKBF don’t think you have a valid defence wave bye bye to your rif and hard earned readies. alternatively you could join the MVT/re-enactment association which would give you a Defense as well. i don’t have UKARA either however I have held PLI for a good few years now and am a member if a registered re-enactment group and I personally prefer this Defense as it doesn’t limit me to just airsoft rifs

Yeah you would have to be pretty silly to do that it almost a Darwin Award.

I just want to add that respect to all in this debate. I personally think everyone has been very reasoned and passionate in what they say which I great although this really is its own thread.

Pretty strict to be honest I wouldn’t say too far off what the UK is however there are exemptions for historical firearms, hunting and competition shooting. But you can’t have full autos, assault rifles or high capacity mags really Totally agree with this

I’m German but live in the UK with family spread in the USA and Germany. East German means I remember my mother’s show trial for wanting to go to West Germany. as you can imagine with the respective countries histories you have to be careful. I just want to state in no way do I condone these massacres and every life lost is a tragic. i do understand your reasoning with regards to gun culture being different in the UK to the US and also people’s view on the government. i would say I don’t believe that good guy with a gun is crap but then as you have stated the UK doesn’t have guns engrained in its culture as much so you are far less likely to have someone committing a massacre using a gun. Especially since the aforementioned shooting in the UK and the tighter controls since then. Aha you say he contradicts himself however like I stated I don’t think you quantify the good guy with a gun argument. what I would say is where there is strict gun control in the US has this stopped gun violence? I think to be fair comparing the UK to the US is probably unfair for the very reason you have said. Education is most important in all of this. Again I’m using this as an argument for regulation and how this can adversely affect us.

I completely agree with you most people don’t need a military grade rifle and shouldn’t be able to have one with out the best justification in the world. Some people in the country own rifles capable of firing 5.56/7.62 plus a host of over calibers. Would you say they are only out to kill people? Or do they enjoy shooting and is that a crime? Maybe I want a handgun to defend myself from people with knives? (Hypothetically) You have asked why I want a firearm. For me it is the enjoyment of shooting and I do understand why you would want justification for wanting to own a firearm but again if I pass all the checks and balances, am of sound mind and don’t have any history that may make me dangerous then I’m sorry there should be no reason to not get any firearm I choose. I have used the firearms as proxy Argument to highlight the erosion of freedom and as I have continuously stated the more we regulate the less freedom we have. firearms is an easy initial target to ban then it moves to putting all rifs to 1J or under then it’s a complete ban for rifs and we have to use boxed shaped pew pews until it is completely banned because plastic bbs can blind someone. If you had to justify to the police the reason why you wanted to airsoft and had to £100 for a license and then have them come round to check they are being stored correctly would you still airsoft? And they might say no mate when you was 15 you stole a mars bar from the corner shop and got a caution so you can’t because you are a risk to the public. Would you feel that’s fair? Politicos will jump on the ban wagon because it will get score them points on elections to portray a sport where people can’t even agree themselves on the rules as numpties who can’t be trusted. This is my real worry, we need unity in airsoft, we need to be decent to each other, listen to other view points and keep self regulation that is the only way in 5 years time we haven’t got £1000’s worth of kit that we can’t use and great memories of the good old days.

I understand your view and and see that there will sadly always be tragic incidents regardless off what checks and balances you have in place. I do contest however your view of the public as you automatically presume that people will just start buying guns and shooting each other. I do think that the majority of public would be sensible and when we are talking about the USA we have a large population of 320+ million people with a lot of guns in circulation. I wonder if you could compare the amount of lives saved by a good guy armed in comparison to death caused by lunatics/criminals, I doubt this is quantifiable. The only way to stop any gun deaths is to ban everyone from having guns including law enforcement/military again this is impossible to do. The needs to be a happy medium where firearms are controlled and citizens can carry/used firearms responsibly and legally with in my opinion isn’t the case in the UK currently. The argument I feel some make is don’t let anyone have any firearms and the problem goes away which is again in my opinion a dangerous infringement of personal freedoms. This will only lead on to the banning of rifs this airsoft dies and goes on throughout society until we all live in an Orwellian utopia. Agree with this completely

Why shouldn’t people in the UK hold firearms if they choose to and pass all the checks and balances. Would you also stop people smoking and drinking as this is harmful for health and costs the country a lot of money each year? I also have carried firearms and been on a 2 way range and found having them a great equaliser. That’s why I advocate people being allowed to legally bear firearms. Granted I would like to see a system different to the US however people have the fundamental right to self defence if they require. Be that against criminals or a criminal state. (I’m not saying the UK government are criminals). My memories are of a criminal state with that guns pointed inwards and people would get shot just for wanting to cross a border.

Think you forgot this Twenty-two states and the District of Columbia have laws that require background checks for some or all private sales, including sales at gun shows. In some of these states, such non-commercial sales must be done through a federally licensed dealer, who performs the background check and records the sale. In other states, gun buyers must first obtain a license from the state, which performs a background check before issuing the license. I said I wasn’t going to say anymore but clearly what I think and the facts to tie however I will concede there are exceptions. However I think my point is still being missed by some. Licensing is a good thing however there comes a point the hurdles become too much, this is as much the case for firearms as well as a lot of other laws in the country that curtail your ability to do what you want legally. At the moment this country is sleep walking into becoming East Germany and you won’t be able to fart without someone reporting you. People who want to break laws will always find a way so let’s not criminalise law abiding citizens