Night Vision Monocular

[AlexD]

Hi everyone, 

 

I'm a new member and I'm not an aisofter, I am however a designer and for my final major project of my masters degree I am designing a cheap night vision and thermal monocular to be used by anti poaching rangers in Africa. Now this is a small market and I have identified the UK and US airsoft markets as potential secondary markets. So I ask, would anyone have interest in a hands free, dual night vision monocular priced around £300, built to withstand harsh conditions?

 

Thanks

Alex

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

10 minutes ago, AlexD said:

Hi everyone, 

 

I'm a new member and I'm not an aisofter, I am however a designer and for my final major project of my masters degree I am designing a cheap night vision and thermal monocular to be used by anti poaching rangers in Africa. Now this is a small market and I have identified the UK and US airsoft markets as potential secondary markets. So I ask, would anyone have interest in a hands free, dual night vision monocular priced around £300, built to withstand harsh conditions?

 

Thanks

Alex

If your Night Vision design is digital, then it's likely worthless for Airsoft I'm afraid. Digital NV requires some level of supplemental IR light to provide the best picture, which is a dead giveaway at night and identifies you as a target.

 

If you're just designing the housing, though, then there's definitely a market for that.

[Adolf Hamster]

by hands-free i'm assuming you're meaning head mounted?

 

as above any system that needs an illuminator to work (digital or gen 1) is going to be an issue for airsoft given the chances of someone else having night vision (and serious kit at that).

 

the thermal might be beneficial depending on how good the resolution is, are we talking a blob at 20 metres or being able to spot flecks of heat hidden through bushes at a decent distance?

 

it's also worth bearing in mind that anyone not running night vision in an airsoft game is gonna have a bright-ass torch strapped to their gun which they can and will be shining in your face, so not having the unit damaged or user blinded by that is a consideration.

[AlexD]

40 minutes ago, DrAlexanderTobacco said:

If your Night Vision design is digital, then it's likely worthless for Airsoft I'm afraid. Digital NV requires some level of supplemental IR light to provide the best picture, which is a dead giveaway at night and identifies you as a target.

 

If you're just designing the housing, though, then there's definitely a market for that.

Yes it would be digital, and the camera I'm planning on using has LEDs, now at night there is a level of abundant IR supplied by the stars and the sun which would work in open areas, I'm yet to test anything yet. Do many people currently run with traditional night vision?

9 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

by hands-free i'm assuming you're meaning head mounted?

 

as above any system that needs an illuminator to work (digital or gen 1) is going to be an issue for airsoft given the chances of someone else having night vision (and serious kit at that).

 

the thermal might be beneficial depending on how good the resolution is, are we talking a blob at 20 metres or being able to spot flecks of heat hidden through bushes at a decent distance?

 

it's also worth bearing in mind that anyone not running night vision in an airsoft game is gonna have a bright-ass torch strapped to their gun which they can and will be shining in your face, so not having the unit damaged or user blinded by that is a consideration.

yes head mounted, I'm working on a couple options at the moment, a head gear, goggles and clipping onto a hat. The digital would likely require LEDs yes and definitely would give them away. The thermal camera we're looking at is 160x120 pix and is the best cheap thermal, anything more requires a £2k camera core. Your point about flashlights is one of the reasons I've chosen digital NV as image intensifier tubes (traditional NV) will burn up with bright lights.

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

37 minutes ago, AlexD said:

Do many people currently run with traditional night vision?

 

Yes, because digital night vision is shit and not suitable for Airsoft. Trust me on this. Even on well-lit evenings it's not up to snuff, and the digital-induced lag makes it far harder to use headmounted than analogue.

 

Quote

Your point about flashlights is one of the reasons I've chosen digital NV as image intensifier tubes (traditional NV) will burn up with bright lights.

Vastly overstated problem with Analogue NV - tubes can catch damage from lasers or really bright sources, but it does take some effort to do. Bright lights, streetlamps or torches etc, are unlikely to permanently blemish a tube unless you're staring at them for a long time.

[Monkman]

I applaud your efforts but NV is not cheap and digital NV would probably be perfectly fine for your intended use for anti-poaching as I can imagine you would be parked up or in a hide stationary.  Digital NV has a hard time adjusting for movement and only super expensive Digital stuff would be good, but by that price point your already @ Gen2+ Analogue levels of NV equipment.

 

I own a Armasight Siriius Gen2+ monocular (Now owned by FLIR) and it's ok for my needs.  It was the cheapest Gen2+ I could find @ the time and they are no longer made.  (£1300) - Gen2+ is ok for outdoors without the use of IR illumination, but for when I am using it for airsofting, I do need a IR illuminator for indoors etc..as the Gen2+ struggles, unlike a GEN3 tube..which still may need IR as well.  Problem as stated above, anyone else using NV will see your IR bloom from a mile away...

 

There are some cheap Chinese Digital Nightvison items for sale, but are garbage...the only retail Digital NV that maybe of use in Airsoft is the SIONYX AURORA... I think you can get the standard for like £400 (on sale) and the PRO for £999.  But whilst you can use them, they are more like GEN1+ and you have to use IR illum as well...and they don't cope well (Refresh rate) when moving.

 

When it comes to head mounting options...mounting to a cap?  Not sure about that due to the weight of a device...best option would be to go down the route of a "Skullcrusher" type headmounting system or design a mount that will clip into a helmet mount.

 

Best of luck and I hope you succeed...

[AlexD]

3 hours ago, DrAlexanderTobacco said:

Yes, because digital night vision is shit and not suitable for Airsoft. Trust me on this. Even on well-lit evenings it's not up to snuff, and the digital-induced lag makes it far harder to use headmounted than analogue.

 

Vastly overstated problem with Analogue NV - tubes can catch damage from lasers or really bright sources, but it does take some effort to do. Bright lights, streetlamps or torches etc, are unlikely to permanently blemish a tube unless you're staring at them for a long time.

Ok, good to know, I just wanted to know if this was something that people would be after, apparently not, which is fine! 

2 hours ago, Monkman said:

When it comes to head mounting options...mounting to a cap?  Not sure about that due to the weight of a device...best option would be to go down the route of a "Skullcrusher" type headmounting system or design a mount that will clip into a helmet mount.

 

Best of luck and I hope you succeed...

This is something I'm yet to find out, Im in the part of design process where im testing concepts, but I also haven't completed the internals yet but Im planning on it coming in less than 300g, it will be very small.

[Monkman]

Found this vid about Analogue vs Digital NV...may be on some help for info.

 

 

[SeniorSpaz87]

I commonly use Gen3 NVGs (PVS-7 and PVS-14) and have used several gens of digital NVGs (ATN X-Sight and others), as well as several thermals (FLIR handheld monocles with 3D printed mounts for head mounting, as well as a Tory Pines T10 micro thermal) at both national-level MilSim events and on the range (Im one of the weird people whos on this site despite being in the US).  As people have stated digital NVGs are useful when you have a technological advantage over the opposing force. If noone on the other team has NVGs then youre golden. If youre a WPO looking for poachers youre good. If youre tired of the coyotes killing your chickens are are set up watching for them, youre good. If youre trying to use them to navigate, fight an equal or superiorly-equipped enemy, or move at any pace with them on youre in trouble. Your idea is something that would be awesome to see in 30 years when the tech catches up, but for now I dont see it being of much use in a force-on-force scenario.