Supporters Finius Posted June 24, 2011 Supporters Share Posted June 24, 2011 So folks, after noting a large amount of different opinions on the VCRA and airsoft law itself, and how it works etc, and a lot of common questions being asked over and over with consistently different answers (not just here, but across the web), I have decided to write a guide to the law for myself. I have legal training, access to a law library, Westlaw and lexis, so I will attempt to write an initial draft, I will then, over time pad out every point with relevant and pertinent law to back it up. BUT I need to know what people think should be included. If I were to simply start, I would probably miss a few bits out, I also don't want to clam it up with gibberish that people don't need. Please leave suggestions in this thread; guide will be in production ASAP. Remember, this is general law; e.g transport etc, as WELL as the VCRA. Thanks, mods, sorry if this isn't wanted/welcome, or I'm overstepping my mark, but I think it needs to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted June 24, 2011 Supporters Share Posted June 24, 2011 Yeah would be helpful, maybe an FAQ section as well would help. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Finius Posted June 24, 2011 Author Supporters Share Posted June 24, 2011 That's what I'm asking for; the most FAQ's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrax Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Heres an odd one, but one i would quite like to know the answer to. My gf and her friends are having a fund raiser day for cancer research outside the front of the house using a stand, selling various things. What restrictions would i face if i wanted to set up a small "spend £2 and fire at a target" with my RIF AEG's? I cant think of a better way to explain it - you may have seen similar at military shows or airsoft stands, (usually the lower end type). I have my selection of weapons, bbs and targets. Is it ok to set it up down the side of the house, out of the publics view. How can i advertise it? Just need to get a general idea of what i can and cant do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Finius Posted June 25, 2011 Author Supporters Share Posted June 25, 2011 To keep this thread OT, I'm sending you a PM Cyrax. Anyway, this is now being done in conjunction with the ultimate airsoft guide being discussed. Here's what I've got as important so far: -The VCRA a. What does the VCRA Say overall, origins, history b. RIF or IF, what's the difference c. Is ownership generally affected d. Purchase/Sale/Trade/Import/Manufacture e. Gifting of RIF and IF f. The specific defense - UKARA and alternatives to UKARA g. U18's h. Bibliography of sources of law i. Links to on versions of the legislation/guidelines for the VCRA j. Potential consequences of breaking the VCRA -General firearms law a. Transport b. Use on private property c. RIF and IF on public property or in areas where the public may come into contact d. Potential for; RIF and IF classification as an offensive weapon e. RIF and IF confiscated due to suspicion of being S.5 Firearms or other illegal weapon f. Know your general rights when being dealt with by police g. Bibliography of sources of law for this section h. Links to sources of legislation etc i. Potential consequences of breaking the various firearms law -Other useful knowledge relevant a. How to keep police interaction as positive as possible b. Why the VCRA and firearms law ARE beneficial in the long run c. Q&A section d. Who to contact if you need help/further information Would people like to know anything about setting up sites, commercial and for private use, traveling abroad with kit etc? Still open to suggestions, I do not consider this list anywhere near complete yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AF-UK Founding Member Deva Posted June 26, 2011 AF-UK Founding Member Share Posted June 26, 2011 Would people like to know anything about setting up sites, commercial and for private use, traveling abroad with kit etc? We've had those crop up before so it would be good. As long as you cover 36-41 in the VCRA I think you will have a fair amount covered (I think the above includes all what is in there but I haven't checked) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airsofter123 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Not sure if these merit their own point, but there are a few things that I've never quite known and am curious about. 1) I've heard it's legal to "manufacture" an RIF at a skirmish site, as long as it stays on the skirmish site - for example, owning a 2 tone gun, swapping parts when you reach the site, then swapping back to 2 tone parts when you leave. 2) Case law - since the VCRA is a pretty shoddy law with gaping loopholes etc. , it would be nice to know how it's actually applied in practice, rather than just as it's written. 3) What constitute RIFs - for example, something like a thunder maul... and do accessories such as M203s constitute RIFS and are hence subject to the 51% rule etc. 4) Importing holsters etc. While I guess this probably isn't illegal, have there ever been any problems with it etc. (since it could easily be assumed it's for a real firearm). There are probably a few more of these to come, those are just the ones off the top of my head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted June 26, 2011 Supporters Share Posted June 26, 2011 Just make sure its in easy to understand terminology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Finius Posted June 26, 2011 Author Supporters Share Posted June 26, 2011 @Dev, quite a bit of 36-41 is in there, but I'll be double checking anyways @Airsofter123, noted, will include accessories and their status too (especially since someone last week asked about a compensator), caselaw I'll do my best, but actually, airsoft so far has mostly avoided problems, there'll be a few bits though, I'm also definitely cover the definition of an RIF and IF @MM556, I'm going to be doing two versions, one will be a full on explanation of everything in toned-down but proper language (i.e. a TRUE law guide), the other will be a more simplified Q&A style version, with much more concise answers. Cheers guys, much appreciated Keep 'em coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted June 26, 2011 Supporters Share Posted June 26, 2011 Good, simpltons will understand now too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Finius Posted June 26, 2011 Author Supporters Share Posted June 26, 2011 Well...I wouldn't want you to feel left out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gammer13 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Is there any other way to purchase RIF's without having a UKARA such as having a valid shotgun licence? Weekend is coming up so dont have time to get a UKARA and get the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted June 27, 2011 Supporters Share Posted June 27, 2011 You don't need ukara you need to.be able to prove that you are a regular skirmisher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Finius Posted June 27, 2011 Author Supporters Share Posted June 27, 2011 UKARA is the easiest way to buy online, if you're buying new. Secondhand is not so problematic, however, you do need a reliable source of proof as MM556 said, to be honest, given that you need it for this weekend, if you're not already a regular skirmisher, you're gonna have to go two-tone or rent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gammer13 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I meant weekender, at the end of august. I dont see how else you can prove yourself to be a regular skirmisher without UKARA when ordering from abroad. Surely customs are going to let it through if its under a shot gun licence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted June 27, 2011 Supporters Share Posted June 27, 2011 aoba, ukapu, skirmish diaries. you could also givee cotact details of your local site owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gammer13 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I dont suppose your keen for explaining what an AOBA and UKAPU are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted June 27, 2011 Supporters Share Posted June 27, 2011 they are airsoft assosiation as far as I know, Im not part of either- I just know that they ar defenses I think they stand for aoba= assosciation of british airsofters ukapu= united kingdom airsoft player union. im not sure how to join either or anything but, you can look into them if needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Finius Posted June 27, 2011 Author Supporters Share Posted June 27, 2011 Just to clarify from a question above. A shotgun license wouldn't cut it. You need a specific defense against the VCRA. It's silly, but it's the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airsofter123 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Just to clarify from a question above. A shotgun license wouldn't cut it. You need a specific defense against the VCRA. It's silly, but it's the way it is. <3 our law . I mean, you might be responsible enough for a shotgun, but an airsoft rifle? No way man! I'd like to see it being really really really stressed that you can't sell a RIF to people without checking defence, and the consequences if not - as a general rule if you message 10 people asking them to 2 tone a gun for you, 3 will offer to send it as it is. Hardly great for the sport, as you just know the Govt. will jump on an opportunity to get rid of these defences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Finius Posted June 30, 2011 Author Supporters Share Posted June 30, 2011 Noted, will be included under a subsection directed at a general code of conduct for keeping the reputation of airsoft as high as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted June 30, 2011 Supporters Share Posted June 30, 2011 Use Portugal as an example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Finius Posted June 30, 2011 Author Supporters Share Posted June 30, 2011 May well do, it couldn't hurt to show people what the options are if we don't care for our sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted July 1, 2011 Supporters Share Posted July 1, 2011 Their law has recently beenn updated I believe, in that now they are allowed to cover the yellow in games, but still, no one in england can complain about two tonw compared to that lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Gee Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I know Finius has all the training but I think I could help with this as I have a friend who is in the armed response police and he can tell me what to do if police do talk to you, what is the best way to carry guns, what he is trained to do win RIFs and IFs etc. Etc. I may only be young... But I believe I can help with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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