Let's Unfuck a Brand New Action Army T-11: a Build Log in Case Anyone Wants to Make a 1j Build Out of This Thing

[Hudson]

Just get a new cylinder head & install some damper pads. 

 

That's what I've done on all mine, and while it'll never compete in the quietness stakes with a suppressed gas or HPA rifle, it's certainly helped with the noise. 

[Skara]

17 minutes ago, Hudson said:

Just get a new cylinder head & install some damper pads. 

 

Yup that's the plan

 

https://www.skirmshop.nl/en/maple-leaf-vsr-10-stainless-steel-upgrade-cylinder.html thinking of this one.

If it's compatible with the AA cylinder I have, I'm gonna order it right now.

[Hudson]

I'd go with the laylax personally.

https://www.skirmshop.nl/en/pss10-air-seal-damper-cylinder-head.html

 

[Skara]

22 minutes ago, Hudson said:

I'd go with the laylax personally.

https://www.skirmshop.nl/en/pss10-air-seal-damper-cylinder-head.html

 

it doesn't seem compatible with TM spec cylinders (I guess the AA is TM spec) 

Anyway, too late, skirmshop posted the parcel already

[Hudson]

They're what I use in most of mine, (AA Cylinders) they fit great, and the inside works great as a base to glue the damper pads on. 

 

Never used the ML cylinder head, but hopefully that'll fit, I've had issues with fitment on other ML parts, but I'd hope the cylinder heads themselves are okay. 

[Skara]

Hope so, because skirmshop is the only place I can reliably source VSR parts from and it takes three ice ages and a quarter to get here -.-

 

Let's talk springs for a second.

I keep hearing about 7mm, 9mm and 13mm springs, is there any actual difference between those sizes apart from requiring different spring guides? (take a M100 for example)

[Hudson]

There's actually only two types (afaik) but they use different numbers for the same thing, it just depends on whether you measure the spring or the spring guide. 

 

7mm spring guides take 11mm springs 

9mm spring guides take 13mm springs.

 

I don't know if an identical number spring will perform differently just based on the diameter, but it's best to match them to your piston. (you ideally don't want a 7mm spring in 13mm large piston, as it's room in which the spring can flex when compressed or releasing - extra noise). 

 

If you're using the SCW piston, it's large so a 13mm spring is best: I have 2 Rapaxes, a PDI and one unknown brand spring (airsoft pro?) in my rifles (all 13mm pistons). 

 

The Rapax springs especially work well; at around 2.2J I can cock them with just one finger if I so desire. 

[Skara]

It appears that the stock spring is 11mm OD, so I would need a 13mm one instead to ensure a somewhat snug fit (will do the can mod anyway).

Need a new spring guide as well I'd say. But will replace it later on as it's plastic so not really prone to being loud

if Rapax makes 1J springs, i'm buying one, I read somewhere that PDI springs are also relatively quiet too!

 

and guess what? He doesn't make 1J springs ffs.

[Hudson]

Try an airsoft pro one? 

 

https://airsoftpro.cz/en/gun-parts-upgrade/sniper-rifles-parts/springs-for-rifles/9mm-upgrade-pruzina-pro-odstrelovaci-pusky-m110-360-fps-detail

 

Around 1.2J, but I'm sure with the correct build you could get it to run at around 1J.

There's also a PDI spring for the APS series. I don't know if it will still Give a similar power output in a vsr, but it's worth a try? 

 

https://airsoftpro.cz/en/gun-parts-upgrade/sniper-rifles-parts/springs-for-rifles/13mm-upgrade-pruzina-pro-aps-2-l96-350-fps-m105-detail

[Skara]

Yup I'm probably gonna resort to a M110/120 because of the airbrake and 300mm inner, but I want to finish the thing before buying a new spring.

[Skara]

2021 is off to a good start!

I have never been so nervous about working on a gun before!

 

I'm currently installing the GunSmithy TDC, had to file away a small portion of the chamber for the arm to fit, drilled my outer barrel to a reasonable standard (had to remove just a smidge of material from one side to make it perfect), now it's just a matter of gluing the turret base onto the barrel.

 

This is kinda nerve wrecking to be honest as I definitely do not want to mess it up.

Any tips on doing it right without epoxying myself to the table?

 

And just in case, how does one "unglue" it?

[Skara]

Aight.

Small update:

 

TDC installed, was easier than I thought even though I managed to mess up the epoxy mix (instead of 1:1 resin/agent I did 4:1  because I'm a retard), nonetheless it's rock solid now.

 

Maple Leaf cylinder head just arrived and it's 1mm longer than the stock (which per se shouldn't be a bad thing).

What worries me is the internal diametre of the nozzle, it's at least 1mm wider than the stock, which I reckon will render the airbrake a bit useless as it won't be large enough to "plug" the nozzle and do anything.

It comes with its own rubber pad which is not the softest, luckily it appears to have the same exact specs (ID and OD) of the Laylax sorbos so swapping it shouldn't be much of a hassle.

 

Tonight I'll test the gun fully assembled.

 

Hopefully it'll work.

[Skara]

Apdeit.

 

Ordered a new spring, the only one I could find was a G&P SP110 that shouid be here tomorrow.

In theory it is equivalent to a M120 so a bit too hot, but considering that the stock spring, which I believe to be a M80 or a very fucking weak M90, gave me about 0.7J on the stock 430mm barrel and 0.6J in the 300mm one, I reckon it'll set me just over 1J on 0.2s and around 1.1/1.2 on 0.4s (the system creeps by about 0.1J when going from 0.2s to 0.4s and by 0.05J from 0.2s to 0.3s).

Hopefully it'll only require one coil snipped off instead of half a spring gone.

I know I could have gone for a PDI/LayLax but the only place I could find them in stock is AirsoftPro.cz and shipping is freaking €20 from there, so I'll order the equivalent spring + spring guide and a few other bits & bobs to "dilute" the shipping costs whenever I am done paying taxes.

 

In the meantime I have realized that the airbrake on the SCW piston is a bit useless, it's definitely too thin to have any sort of impact on both cylinder heads I have.

BUT that is most likely me having absolutely no clue how an airbraked gun is supposed to sound like.

I'm popping SCW a message and see what they say.

 

Idk if any of you has noticed but I'm pretty frustrated

 

[Adolf Hamster]

eh, gun teching is always a rocky road.

 

you'll get there might just take a while.

[Skara]

Just got a response from Pavol (SCW guy).

He modeled the airbrake after the stock TM cylinder head, which has a ID of 4mm (the airbrake is 3.9).

So according to this, I should increase the shaft's thickness by 2 millimetres, from 3.9 to 5.9, to achieve some sort of effect. I reckon one or two layers of heat shrink would do the trick.

OR, since I'm running low on small diametre shrink, PTFE the shaft until I get 6mm OD, then one layer of heat shrink to bring it down to 5.5/5.9 and to keep everything nice and snug.

Could it work?

 

Imma give it a go tonight when I get back from ze concentration camp office along with testing the new spring.

 

It's frustrating but also exciting as I get to actually modify stuff instead of just replacing it  think it gets closer to the definition of "custom build"

[Skara]

It's been quite the rollercoaster with the new spring yesterday.

 

Installed, first shot on 0.2s gave me 0.9J, good, loaded some 0.4s and BOOM, 1.4J. A whopping half Joule of creep on a 300mm inner.

Then removed the solder from the piston, 109/110 m/s with 0.2s and 1.56J on 0.4s....

Put the stock plastic piston in for science, 1.6+ joules on 0.4s, didn't bother with 0.2s.

The fuck.

Started cutting coils and got it down to 1.38J on 0.4s before nipping the spring too short to hold everything under tension (to prevent the spring guide stopper from falling off).

 

Wasted a spring, ordered a M100 now.

 

So it appears that the whole heavy piston best piston is a bunch of bollocks.

I can only see it being used to cheat the chrono at those sites where chrono is made on FPS/0.2g.

[Adolf Hamster]

8 hours ago, Skara said:

I can only see it being used to cheat the chrono at those sites where chrono is made on FPS/0.2g.

 

i must admit, if there's a benefit other than that i'm not 100% sure what it is.

 

unless forcing the piston to impact slower is better for noise? although i'd have assumed a lighter piston would be easier to slow down.

[Skara]

23 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

i must admit, if there's a benefit other than that i'm not 100% sure what it is.

 

unless forcing the piston to impact slower is better for noise? although i'd have assumed a lighter piston would be easier to slow down.

I thought it was supposed to let you use a lighter spring to achieve the same energy level as a stiffer spring + lighter piston combination but it's not true (at least in my case), all it does is reduce the pressure spike on light bbs, because the amount of JC stayed the same at +0.5J (0.9/1.4, 1.05/1.55).

 

Sound wise, it's the airbrake's job to slow down the piston before it hits the cylinder head pad, we already established that on my setup it doesn't work.

Good news is Pavol (SCW guy) is willing to make me a dedicated airbrake for my cylinder head (I'll send him the exact measures tonight).

 

As of now I'm not too worried about having a quiet gun, main concern is the power output

[Adolf Hamster]

13 minutes ago, Skara said:

I thought it was supposed to let you use a lighter spring to achieve the same energy level as a stiffer spring + lighter piston combination but it's not true (at least in my case), all it does is reduce the pressure spike on light bbs, because the amount of JC stayed the same at +0.5J (0.9/1.4, 1.05/1.55).

 

i thought it'd be the opposite, more kinetic energy in the piston means you're gonna need more initial spring energy. but the momentum of the heavier piston then limits the velocity the bb can acheive regardless of its weight because the bb's energy gain is a smaller proportion of the energy in the system.

 

come to think of it, it's really hard to describe how i think the whole heavyweight piston thing works.

[Skara]

Either way, with my setup a heavy piston is not needed other than chrono cheating purposes

 

M100 spring went in yesterday, it clocks at 0.94J on 0.2s and 1.25J on 0.4s, with an intermediate 1.15J on 0.3s.

Better, I guess, still running hot for my limit but I'm not gonna do anything until the new airbrake is installed.

 

For a brief moment, though, I accidentally got the current airbrake to work:

During testing the gun suddenly became whisper quiet (not quite mk23 levels, but surely inaudible over 5 metres), at first I thought something in my internal suppression had moved out of position and was blocking the barrel, but BBs were flying straight and at a consistent velocity (eyeballed). Chrono readings were just 0.1J below the "loud" results, so I started to take the gun apart.

Noticed some PTFE coming out of the nozzle, that's when I realized the airbrake jacket I made with PTFE and heat shrink had come off the airbrake and got stuck in the cylinder head, making the stock 4mm airbrake perfectly functional

I have removed it now, but fuck me sideways it was dead quiet!!!!!

 

Still have to test the sound from the target's perspective but if everything goes according to plan, I'll end up with a 0.99J gun that is stupid quiet without having to cut the spring  at that point I can call the build done from a mechanical point of view and start working on camouflaging it (without ruining the pristine looks with spray paint or other shit).

[Skara]

 

Pavol just sent me this picture

 

Fucking humongous airbrake to match the ML cylinder head  should be here in 10 days or so

[Adolf Hamster]

there's gotta be a joke in here about expanding girth.....

[Skara]

On 18/01/2021 at 21:23, Adolf Hamster said:

there's gotta be a joke in here about expanding girth.....

There are more rock hard phallic shaped objects in my gun than in pornhub or something 😂

[Adolf Hamster]

well expanding the girth so it's a nice tight fit is gonna keep her quiet at least.

[Skara]

Will she cope with the pressure?

cuz that's a whole lotta shaft in her hole