Converting Airsoft HPA or Buying Complete System?

[XukeLho]

Hello guys, I've been running an AEG for a while and now I'm starting to get curious about HPA. Been doing some research about how it works and all that but I'm not sure where to get started and thats where I need your help.

For a starting HPA system should I go with an already build out-of-the-box ready gun like the Lancer Tactical's Legion HPA M4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe_z0rAyZOY)

Or should I just get a kit like the Inferno Gen 2 (https://shop.wolverineairsoft.com/inferno-gen2) and assemble everything by myself or go to a mechanic

 

And how does the Lancer Tactical compare with the Wolverine Inferno? I'm assuming the kit is superior but why I don't know.

 

PS.: I prefer mechanical HPA systems like the Lancer Tactical. I understand I am lossing the ability to program the rate of fire, but it is something I don't like and would keep it low anyways (so because of this, maybe the Inferno wasn't the best example to compare XD). But when I say prefer, it is just that, a preference and not a requirement

[sjhirst]

Hi,

The first thing i would look at when going hpa is the fundamentals such as- where can i refill a bottle, what do i need - such as bottle, regulator, line etc and the start up costs.

I'm probably stating the obvious, but ive seen people go into hpa not realising the other costs to it!

I've never seen a lancer in action i'm afraid, but if you have a good budget then give the Wolverine MTW serious thought or a Tipmmann for the recoil!

 

[XukeLho]

Hi sjhirst! Thank you for the quick reply. I've already research the 'secondary' costs of running HPA, I just didn't post anything here about it because I am still looking for recommendations on what the best starting choice is.

You mentioned recoil, do HPA also have blowback? I was unaware of that. How does it compare to gas?

 

Will research the options you mentioned

[XukeLho]

Sidenote, can my dad air compressor (https://www.leroymerlin.pt/Produtos/Ferramentas/Compressores/Compressores/WPR_REF_81944787) full my hpa bottles?

[Steveocee]

15 minutes ago, XukeLho said:

Sidenote, can my dad air compressor (https://www.leroymerlin.pt/Produtos/Ferramentas/Compressores/Compressores/WPR_REF_81944787) full my hpa bottles?

 

A quick look at specs show that compressor is only capable of outputting 8 bar (116PSI) so probably not being as a "cheap" bottle fills to 3000psi.

Probably work if you hook the compressor directly to a gun lol

[XukeLho]

3 hours ago, Steveocee said:

 

A quick look at specs show that compressor is only capable of outputting 8 bar (116PSI) so probably not being as a "cheap" bottle fills to 3000psi.

Probably work if you hook the compressor directly to a gun lol

XD

I'm in the process of finding out if the air in our gas pumps (to fill tires) is strong enough to fill a 3000psi bottle. If so, will save me that cost

[XukeLho]

On 02/08/2020 at 08:40, Steveocee said:

 

A quick look at specs show that compressor is only capable of outputting 8 bar (116PSI) so probably not being as a "cheap" bottle fills to 3000psi.

Probably work if you hook the compressor directly to a gun lol

How did you calculate the compressor output power? I'd like to know so I can search for a machine to fill my bottles (if its a good ideia in the long run)

[Tommikka]

Be extremely careful with compressors.

When handled correctly HPA is safe

 

For the opening scare story, the wrong compressor can result in death or serous injury.  This may not occur from the compressor but at a later date on a site compressor due to contamination.

See the linked threads below.

 

Norm compressors (such as tyre compressors) won’t produce the pressure required, ‘workshop’ compressors provide higher pressure but not normally at the fill

pressures required, there are compressors cheaper than site level compressors that can achieve a 3000psi or 4500psi level (often via the ‘shoebox’ type of secondary boost) but cannot sustain the capacity requirement without overheating, or take days to do so.  None of the above can do so to safe levels of filtering.

 

Contaminate a HPA cylinder and a future flash fill explosion is risked. At best you shorten the life of the regulator or burst disks.

 

The best option is to fill HPA on site, next best is via a scuba cylinder and your own fill station.

Otherwise a stirrup pump can be used - but takes time and effort and also requires a filtered system.   Many high pressure stirrup pumps are unfiltered - they are aimed at PCP air rifles which need low capacity high pressure, and are direct to gun with less risk of onward contamination leading to a

flash fill explosion
 

The protective elements of regulators and burst disks fail when over pressurised, they cannot cope with a flash fill explosion

 

 

Check out the photos in my post linked here, which show what happened to a player self filling from a fill station that had been contaminated:

 

In that thread I refer to the UKPSF HPA1 document with a link, but the contents are also copied into the following thread

 

[XukeLho]

32 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

Be extremely careful with compressors.

When handled correctly HPA is safe

 

For the opening scare story, the wrong compressor can result in death or serous injury.  This may not occur from the compressor but at a later date on a site compressor due to contamination.

See the linked threads below.

 

Norm compressors (such as tyre compressors) won’t produce the pressure required, ‘workshop’ compressors provide higher pressure but not normally at the fill

pressures required, there are compressors cheaper than site level compressors that can achieve a 3000psi or 4500psi level (often via the ‘shoebox’ type of secondary boost) but cannot sustain the capacity requirement without overheating, or take days to do so.  None of the above can do so to safe levels of filtering.

 

Contaminate a HPA cylinder and a future flash fill explosion is risked. At best you shorten the life of the regulator or burst disks.

 

The best option is to fill HPA on site, next best is via a scuba cylinder and your own fill station.

Otherwise a stirrup pump can be used - but takes time and effort and also requires a filtered system.   Many high pressure stirrup pumps are unfiltered - they are aimed at PCP air rifles which need low capacity high pressure, and are direct to gun with less risk of onward contamination leading to a

flash fill explosion
 

The protective elements of regulators and burst disks fail when over pressurised, they cannot cope with a flash fill explosion

 

 

Check out the photos in my post linked here, which show what happened to a player self filling from a fill station that had been contaminated:

 

In that thread I refer to the UKPSF HPA1 document with a link, but the contents are also copied into the following thread

 

 

Damn! I had no ideia it could be so dangerous. I guess getting a machine for refilling is now out of the question. Will leave the refil for professionals now.

 

But back to my first question. Am I better off converting an AEG to HPA, or should I go directly to an out of the box HPA solution like the Lancer Tactical or the Wolverine MTW? Or it doesn't matter because they end up being the same?

[Tommikka]

28 minutes ago, XukeLho said:

 

But back to my first question. Am I better off converting an AEG to HPA, or should I go directly to an out of the box HPA solution like the Lancer Tactical or the Wolverine MTW? Or it doesn't matter because they end up being the same?

I can’t help you on the best option for buying or converting (((in theory buying puts the work to someone who knows what they are doing, whereas converting can be better at getting personal needs)))

 

It might be worth amending the thread title to include HPA to attract someone more experienced in converting airsoft HPA or buying

[XukeLho]

4 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

I can’t help you on the best option for buying or converting (((in theory buying puts the work to someone who knows what they are doing, whereas converting can be better at getting personal needs)))

 

It might be worth amending the thread title to include HPA to attract someone more experienced in converting airsoft HPA or buying

Good ideia. But where is the option to change the title?

[Tommikka]

4 minutes ago, XukeLho said:

Good ideia. But where is the option to change the title?

Specifics may differ depending on device, but on my phone the ‘edit’ under the first post of a thread allows the title to be amended as well as the post

[sjhirst]

To convert an aeg into hpa can be a as simple as ripping out the internals of the gearbox, fitting the engine and associated gubbins, putting it all back together and bobs your uncle!   in simple terms that is!  You have to make sure the engine will fit the appropriate gearbox (the inferno gen 2 fitted well in a spenca m4 i converted and a poloarstar jack into a spartan ak. 

Next comes alignment of the nozzle/ barrel and making sure that your dwell settings and other fcu settings are spot on. Yes it can be a headache, but can also be rewarding when its shooting nicely.

I sold all mine having seen the MTW. This is an m4 specifically built for hpa- no alignment to worry about and literally plug in battery and go for it (just the dwell to change and your full auto/ semi settings if you want) I haven't looked back.

The Tippmann is very similar in principle in that it is specifically built for hpa, but has recoil and no regulator is required on the hpa bottle- it is all done via the gun. I had one once and thought it was ok, and I think it has been improved since.

I've only scratched the surface and hopefully others will give some input. Have a look on highpressureairsoft.co.uk and if you see something you like give Chris a shout. They are very good. 

Hope this helps no matter how little!!

[XukeLho]

1 hour ago, sjhirst said:

To convert an aeg into hpa can be a as simple as ripping out the internals of the gearbox, fitting the engine and associated gubbins, putting it all back together and bobs your uncle!   in simple terms that is!  You have to make sure the engine will fit the appropriate gearbox (the inferno gen 2 fitted well in a spenca m4 i converted and a poloarstar jack into a spartan ak. 

Next comes alignment of the nozzle/ barrel and making sure that your dwell settings and other fcu settings are spot on. Yes it can be a headache, but can also be rewarding when its shooting nicely.

I sold all mine having seen the MTW. This is an m4 specifically built for hpa- no alignment to worry about and literally plug in battery and go for it (just the dwell to change and your full auto/ semi settings if you want) I haven't looked back.

The Tippmann is very similar in principle in that it is specifically built for hpa, but has recoil and no regulator is required on the hpa bottle- it is all done via the gun. I had one once and thought it was ok, and I think it has been improved since.

I've only scratched the surface and hopefully others will give some input. Have a look on highpressureairsoft.co.uk and if you see something you like give Chris a shout. They are very good. 

Hope this helps no matter how little!!

Hello sjhirst. Thank you for your input. If I got it correctly, you had an (converted to HPA) AEG and obtained an MTW. And in having both, you now recomend the MTW. Can you specify why? Does it perform better, or is it easyer to maintain?

[sjhirst]

Hi,

I just found it performs better and less to worry about. The mtw has been designed for hpa so there is nothing to worry about. It's a solid bit of kit (check out the mtw thread  on here) lightweight and very robust.

Again, this is not to detract from doing it yourself though.

[XukeLho]

1 hour ago, sjhirst said:

Hi,

I just found it performs better and less to worry about. The mtw has been designed for hpa so there is nothing to worry about. It's a solid bit of kit (check out the mtw thread  on here) lightweight and very robust.

Again, this is not to detract from doing it yourself though.

Cool! And how upgradeable is the MTW? Can you swap out the inner barrel and/or hopup? Does it accept any M4 mags? the outer barrel and rails are the same as any other M4?