We M16a1 FPS?

[rsvpiper]

A question to the Hive,

 

Having not used my WE M16 in anger last year  I've been out just recently on a members only game, put the gun through crono and it reaches the mind blowing performance of 188 fps!!! Surely some mistake but no did a double check just to make sure! It wasn't cold either around 20deg warm and damp, Am I missing something here the guns clean and oiled running .2 bb's mags are leak free and filled with Abbey gas if i remember correctly!

 

[EDcase]

I think Abbey gas is for TM plastic slide pistols or gbb storage.

I get from 330 down to 300 fps when cold with a nearly empty can of Green gas.  (I haven't tried the Ultrair gas yet)

[Cr0-Magnon]

3 hours ago, EDcase said:

I think Abbey gas is for TM plastic slide pistols or gbb storage

 

Abbey do make a maintenance gas but they also make regular and high powered variants. So we'd need to determine which it is in this case.

[EDcase]

3 hours ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

 

Abbey do make a maintenance gas but they also make regular and high powered variants. So we'd need to determine which it is in this case.

Ah, I've only seen the low power/maintenance versions.

Having such low fps would point in that direction.

[rsvpiper]

Here's the gas I've used

[Nick G]

I chrono'd my WE M4 CQBR last week , new gun being used as a base for an L119 a1 build, on a mix of Nuprol Green and propane . It's got an Angry Gun adjustable nozzle in it which I need to set up so wanted a baseline . It was running at basically 400 fps on .20's ( it's hopped for .36) 

Internally I think it's pretty similar to your M16 so you are definitely down on power. Probably down to the gas you used, however it's worth opening up the hop unit to make sure everything is properly in place , a bad rubber could choke things a bit.

Have you got any sort of 'power control' device fitted ? all 3 of my WE GBBRs run hot if left stock, if you have then its worth checking that , does the nozzle run smoothly in the bolt ?

[rsvpiper]

2 hours ago, Nick G said:

I chrono'd my WE M4 CQBR last week , new gun being used as a base for an L119 a1 build, on a mix of Nuprol Green and propane . It's got an Angry Gun adjustable nozzle in it which I need to set up so wanted a baseline . It was running at basically 400 fps on .20's ( it's hopped for .36) 

Internally I think it's pretty similar to your M16 so you are definitely down on power. Probably down to the gas you used, however it's worth opening up the hop unit to make sure everything is properly in place , a bad rubber could choke things a bit.

Have you got any sort of 'power control' device fitted ? all 3 of my WE GBBRs run hot if left stock, if you have then its worth checking that , does the nozzle run smoothly in the bolt ?

cronod it today going all over the place from 190 up to 320 with some bb's just dropping as soon as they are shot!

Attached are some pictures of the bolt

2 hours ago, Nick G said:

I chrono'd my WE M4 CQBR last week , new gun being used as a base for an L119 a1 build, on a mix of Nuprol Green and propane . It's got an Angry Gun adjustable nozzle in it which I need to set up so wanted a baseline . It was running at basically 400 fps on .20's ( it's hopped for .36) 

Internally I think it's pretty similar to your M16 so you are definitely down on power. Probably down to the gas you used, however it's worth opening up the hop unit to make sure everything is properly in place , a bad rubber could choke things a bit.

Have you got any sort of 'power control' device fitted ? all 3 of my WE GBBRs run hot if left stock, if you have then its worth checking that , does the nozzle run smoothly in the bolt ?

TBH I haven't a clue about a control device fitted, nozzle runs ok, 

[EDcase]

Doubt you have an NPAS fitted unless it came pre-installed (check invoice if its mentioned)

 

It looks well used but nothing broken.

Might be worth cleaning up the fake locking lugs (the two at the top which have been worn/damaged)

Other than that make sure to clean the barrel (and gently into the hop) using the rod with a strip of cloth and alcohol on it.

If the gun cycles then its mechanically OK but there must be some problem with the gas path.

Is the gas can quite full?

Maybe try a different gas?

 

Duno what else to suggest, sorry.

[Nick G]

There wont be an NPAS or similar fitted unless you fitted one. As Edcase said the top lugs on the nozzle do look a bit damaged so could be stopping the bolt going fully home which would cause some issues.  It's a little hard to tell in the top picture , but the rubber (not seen a white one before) looks like it's a little lopsided, although that might be the angle of the photo. GBBRs tend to vary more than AEGs but that's extreme. My money is on a bolt / hop issue. Clean up those lugs and try again, if still no improvement open up the hop unit .

Does the bolt lock back at the end of the mag ?

[rsvpiper]

5 hours ago, Nick G said:

There wont be an NPAS or similar fitted unless you fitted one. As Edcase said the top lugs on the nozzle do look a bit damaged so could be stopping the bolt going fully home which would cause some issues.  It's a little hard to tell in the top picture , but the rubber (not seen a white one before) looks like it's a little lopsided, although that might be the angle of the photo. GBBRs tend to vary more than AEGs but that's extreme. My money is on a bolt / hop issue. Clean up those lugs and try again, if still no improvement open up the hop unit .

Does the bolt lock back at the end of the mag ?

Yes the dead man works fine, Could be the gas was old stock and has lost some of its power!

[Cyberlawyer]

I have a WE 416 which is the same mechanism internally. My checklist would be as follows (in order of easiest first).

 

1. if you have an Npas fitted check that first. They can come unscrewed due to vibration. If they come out too far (past the threads) then very weird things can happen.

 

2. Try another gas. Even on a game day someone will likely give you a squirt of Nuprol 2 to try. (In my experience its not often the gas if you are using a decent brand, but it’s easy to eliminate without stripping stuff down so worth eliminating early). Remember to empty the old gas first.

 

3. visually inspect the nozzle. If it’s broken it will need replacing so you will need to strip the bolt so you will need to jump to step 6 (note it doesn’t mean there won’t be a problem with steps 4 & 5).

 

4. Check/replace the hop rubber. A worn or Perforated hop rubber can cause some strange FPS variations and is fairly easy to eliminate. Even if there are no obvious holes a small hole can cause issues, or just the rubber hardening up with age can mean they no longer seal well against the barrel.

 

5. check the the magazine gas router for damage and the seal between the gas router and the bolt.

 

6. Check the bolt. Does the bolt carrier glide smoothly. Does the blow back unit slide smoothly in the bolt carrier and snap back under spring tension. Disassemble the unit and check all the springs are in good shape and the other parts are all ok with no cracks or deformities. Any cracked parts will need replacing. Minor surface deformities (ie the lugs in the pic above can sometimes be carefully filed or sanded).

 

7. As a last resort check the tension on the hammer spring as it might be light striking.

 

If none of the above work swear a lot as thats all the easy to fix stuff that I can think of that would cause strange FPS variations. At this point unless you really know what you are doing it is probably worth taking it to a tech.
 

Hope that is of some use.

[rsvpiper]

17 hours ago, Cyberlawyer said:

I have a WE 416 which is the same mechanism internally. My checklist would be as follows (in order of easiest first).

 

1. if you have an Npas fitted check that first. They can come unscrewed due to vibration. If they come out too far (past the threads) then very weird things can happen.

 

2. Try another gas. Even on a game day someone will likely give you a squirt of Nuprol 2 to try. (In my experience its not often the gas if you are using a decent brand, but it’s easy to eliminate without stripping stuff down so worth eliminating early). Remember to empty the old gas first.

 

3. visually inspect the nozzle. If it’s broken it will need replacing so you will need to strip the bolt so you will need to jump to step 6 (note it doesn’t mean there won’t be a problem with steps 4 & 5).

 

4. Check/replace the hop rubber. A worn or Perforated hop rubber can cause some strange FPS variations and is fairly easy to eliminate. Even if there are no obvious holes a small hole can cause issues, or just the rubber hardening up with age can mean they no longer seal well against the barrel.

 

5. check the the magazine gas router for damage and the seal between the gas router and the bolt.

 

6. Check the bolt. Does the bolt carrier glide smoothly. Does the blow back unit slide smoothly in the bolt carrier and snap back under spring tension. Disassemble the unit and check all the springs are in good shape and the other parts are all ok with no cracks or deformities. Any cracked parts will need replacing. Minor surface deformities (ie the lugs in the pic above can sometimes be carefully filed or sanded).

 

7. As a last resort check the tension on the hammer spring as it might be light striking.

 

If none of the above work swear a lot as thats all the easy to fix stuff that I can think of that would cause strange FPS variations. At this point unless you really know what you are doing it is probably worth taking it to a tech.
 

Hope that is of some use.

Ordered a new hop up rubber and a complete bolt assembly as I'm working on both of them are playing up! Took it out for a shooting session yesterday and it's shooting really short then good then short again. Hopefully I'll have it sorted for Saturday 🤞

[rsvpiper]

Well that was an interesting day, ive fitted a new nub and flamingo 60A added a TNT barrel and replaced the standard bolt assembly with a Ra-Tech NPAS aluminum nozzle and steel bolt, took it down to my local shop to check the fps and it ran well however half way through the Saturday skirmish it began to smash up bb's in the chamber and then totally locked up the bolt😡 before it was put in the bolt was oiled,  I've emailed the people who supplied the bolt skirmshop.co.uk looking for a replacement bolt but not had any reply as yet!

 

Oh the joys of airsoft!

[EDcase]

Bad luck 😔

That's the problem with RaTech parts, because they're higher strength they tend to chew up the other parts they come in contact with.

You just can't win 🤪

[rsvpiper]

1 hour ago, EDcase said:

Bad luck 😔

That's the problem with RaTech parts, because they're higher strength they tend to chew up the other parts they come in contact with.

You just can't win 🤪

Strange that its the bolt that gone though, its totally siezed up

[EDcase]

12 minutes ago, rsvpiper said:

Strange that its the bolt that gone though, its totally siezed up

Its probably crushed BB parts along the sides.

[Nick G]

Is the nozzle completely stuck ? wont pull out either ? try removing the guides and see if you can get enough movement to see if it frees off. As EDcase suggested it could well be crushed BB bits jamming it, or I guess the rails on the aluminium nozzle may have gotten damaged and be binding.

[rsvpiper]

On 04/08/2020 at 11:42, Nick G said:

Is the nozzle completely stuck ? wont pull out either ? try removing the guides and see if you can get enough movement to see if it frees off. As EDcase suggested it could well be crushed BB bits jamming it, or I guess the rails on the aluminium nozzle may have gotten damaged and be binding.

It was well stuck, the  guides on each side damaged all the anodised coating off and the nozzle was twisted slightly! Ive returned it now the guys at Skirmishshop👍