Enforcability of VCRA

[Countryman]

Hi there

 

As anyone who read my introduction will know I come from the other side of heavy regulation and legal complexity of real firearms.

 

As any responsible firearms certificate holder would say I would never condone the breaking of any law.

 

I have to say though I find this VCRA stuff quite difficult to fathom out. I've read the act, I understand it and can work within it and understand the UKARA stuff has been made up to fill a loophole BUT

 

• I'm new to the hobby but I have an airsoft pistol and a blank firer that both predate the act. (Its not illegal for me to own one)

 

• I have used a Crown Officer Exemption to acquire a L85 last year that I use in my Cadet Detachment for drill. Still legal!

 

• Airsoft guns don't have serial numbers if they do you don't record them for transactions.

 

If somebody does something stupid with one, commits a crime, threatens someone with one I hope that the law comes down on them like a ton of bricks. However how would you track back the transaction to show that the vendor illegally sold the RIF? There is no security requirement for a RIF like a Firearm or even an air rifle. They must get stolen regularly. They therefore must be in criminal hands alongside I expect a heap of cheap eastern block weapons and illegal conversions. Completely approve of the airsoft industry attempting to police itself in making sure that the purchaser is reasonably fit and proper but it seems like a fairly unenforceable bit of law.

 

The Law exists already to empower the Police and CPS to absolutely ruin the life of someone misbehaving with any weapon or imitation weapon. Other than trying to limit the circulation of RIFs this is one of the most ineffective bits of law I have ever seen and believe me in my world the list is long and esteemed.

 

Air Rifles, Knives, Axes, Crossbows, Bows and arrows. Nowhere near the same restriction to acquire. Bizarre! Would have been easier to restrict them for purchase to an 18 year old or require someone over 18 to supervise. At least then you would have an adult to bring the full weight of law down upon. Whack a coat of blue paint on and we are legal. Thank god the bad guys don't have access to paint stripper or a rattle can of black.

 

I know I'm late to the party. You probably shared my bemusement when the ACT came out.

 

What prosecutions have there been of vendors?

 

 

[Tiercel]

Welcome to the frustration of airsoft, where its easy for anyone to pop down to your local fishing/hunting shop and pick up a crossbow or air rifle thats more than capable of maiming or killing someone, with no "defence" whatsoever other than being over 18. But if you want a toy gun that shoots little plastic pellets, but looks a bit real, well now sonny thats a different matter altogether. Never mind that you can buy CO2 .22/.177 steel pellet pistols that also look totally realistic and would do more harm as well, again without any kind of defence. 

 

Theres no need to worry about your airsoft guns predating the VCRA because the whole thing only applies to selling RIFs, not owning them. Anyone can own a RIF. 

 

To the best of my knowledge, there has never been any kind of prosecution for selling airsoft guns, be it privately or commercially. People insisting on you having UKARA for 2nd hand sales on forums like this is a side effect of the rampant worrying over nothing, and as you've already pointed out it's virtually unenforceable anyway. Besides, no criminal is going to put the hassle or cost of buying an airsoft gun when they can just get a £30 CO2 pistol that will do the same job, or a real one from Dodgey Darren round the back alley of his local. 

[Countryman]

32 minutes ago, Tiercel said:

Welcome to the frustration of airsoft, where its easy for anyone to pop down to your local fishing/hunting shop and pick up a crossbow or air rifle thats more than capable of maiming or killing someone, with no "defence" whatsoever other than being over 18. But if you want a toy gun that shoots little plastic pellets, but looks a bit real, well now sonny thats a different matter altogether. Never mind that you can buy CO2 .22/.177 steel pellet pistols that also look totally realistic and would do more harm as well, again without any kind of defence. 

 

Theres no need to worry about your airsoft guns predating the VCRA because the whole thing only applies to selling RIFs, not owning them. Anyone can own a RIF. 

 

To the best of my knowledge, there has never been any kind of prosecution for selling airsoft guns, be it privately or commercially. People insisting on you having UKARA for 2nd hand sales on forums like this is a side effect of the rampant worrying over nothing, and as you've already pointed out it's virtually unenforceable anyway. Besides, no criminal is going to put the hassle or cost of buying an airsoft gun when they can just get a £30 CO2 pistol that will do the same job, or a real one from Dodgey Darren round the back alley of his local. 

 

Exactly that.

 

Absolutely nuts. Yes I forgot to mention that I also own a Walther P99 Gas Blowback pellet gun which is a RIF but that doesn't matter because its an air gun!

 

I did a paint job on a Nerf gun for a fancy dress costume a year or two ago. I'm not sure that in doing so and making it a bit more realistic I didn't inadvertently break some law.

 

I should imagine that if I were ever arrested for possession of a plastic gun that with my experience, qualification and what's available to me quite legitimately I could make it enormously uncomfortable for the CPS.

Gees guys my Dad has a facial scar from an airgun battle when he was a kid. As a lad the airgun battles we had we epic and just stupidly dangerous.

 

Armed police will kill you if you wave anything about that looks like a gun! Honestly, if we took the warning labels off everything then in a couple generations this problem would sort itself out and we wouldn't need stupid, unenforceable, laws from Nanny State.

[AshOnSnow]

It’s a classic example of the lawmakers in London who don’t have the first clue about what they’re criminalising, or how it could be enforced, just ticking and crossing boxes so it looks like they’ve done something other than getting drunk and watching porn all week.

[Tiercel]

17 minutes ago, AshOnSnow said:

It’s a classic example of the lawmakers in London who don’t have the first clue about what they’re criminalising, or how it could be enforced, just ticking and crossing boxes so it looks like they’ve done something other than getting drunk and watching porn all week.

 

As long as its good wholesome Christian porn, thats only missionary under the sheets with the lights off, for the purposes of procreation only. Wouldnt want to offend them and their Extreme Pornography act  

 

Gotta do something so Mothers Against Anything Fun vote for them!

[Guest scalawag]

What I love about the whole VCRA/UKARA business is how a lot of UKARA registered retailers also happen to own skirmish sites.  Now why would they decide people should have to play three games over a minimum of 3 months before they can register with UKARA I wonder,  I really can't think of a reason...... but then I am not a businessman.

Before I get jumped on I know UKARA is "optional" and was set up with the intention of protecting skirmishing, and the whole 3 in 3 months thing was based on recommendations etc.....   But I can't help but think that it has also benefited some of those who set it up in other ways too.

 

I also like the way that every so often someone will describe an RIF as "not suitable for Skirmishing with" or "a collectors item, rather than a skirmish gun" when actually you can't buy one with a defence of being a legitimate airsoft collector or any other airsoft related activity that is not skirmishing.  

 

I really love the idea that the only way you can legitimately buy an RIF is as a skirmisher or reenactor as you then have a legitimate use for it and public liability insurance, but if you chuck a bit of blue or green paint on exactly the same gun you don't need to have a legitimate use or insurance!!!!!

 

Interest in Airsoft in this country used to be far more diverse before the VCRA but since skirmishing is now the sole airsoft related defence under the VCRA all other airsoft activities have pretty much ceased.  True I suspect skirmishing has grown as a result but it is at the expense of the other legitimate uses that airsoft used to have like target shooting and collecting.  All very sad, completely unnecessary, and as the OP commented pretty much unenforceable anyway.  Oh well.

[Rogerborg]

The more you know about how our laws are created, the more contempt you'll feel for them.

 

My defining moment was engaging with the Parilament committee 'debate' on the 'ban' on 'samurai swords'.  David Davies MP, a short-service voluntary Special Constable at the time, opined that he'd asked around the constabulary, and had not found a single serving constable who had ever encountered such a weapon being used.  Further, he suggested that the entire issue was a fabrication of the Sun and the Daily Mail seeking to sensationally demonise a particular weapon based on a few mis-reported incidents, rather than focus on the chavscum that were minded to use bladed weapons.

 

Our elected 'representatives' heard him out, then scoffed and scowled and said that they were assured - assured - that there was a real problem which their real constituents were demanding that that they solved.

 

Comes now the The Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons)(Amendment) Order 2008, addition to section 141 prohibition in trading in "(r) a sword with a curved blade of 50 centimetres or over in length".

 

Overnight, all law abiding people dealing in blunt or sharp historical and replica cutlasses, scimitars, falchions, sabres and such were absolutely stuffed.  Those dealing in £20 eBay curvy "dedly ninja katanas" simply switched to selling straight bladed "dedly ninja swords" and absolutely nobody who intended to sell or purchase such a weapon for nefarious purposes was inconvenienced in the slightest way.

 

Since then, I have given the square root of sod all consideration to any act of parliament which infringes my Thot-given right to maximise my personal lulz.

 

You can and should make up your own mind on this issue, but the realpolitk is that our legislative, executive, and judicial jobsworths are largely unaware of the vast majority of our 'offences', let alone being concerned with their enforcement.

 

Don't be a nobber and it won't be an issue, is my mantra.

[Guest scalawag]

I believe UKARA as the industry most affected (Airsoft retailers) we’re represented when this law was being thrashed out.  I suspect that at least some of them were not that perturbed at the introduction of a defence that they realised meant they could encourage people to spend money skirmishing at one of their skirmish sites before they were able to buy an RIF.  

 

The people who are really affected by these laws are rarely in my experience represented. In some sense they can’t be, how do you represent people who buy Airsoft guns generally for example.  Quite rightly Groups who get involved will largely only represent their own interests and agendas, and not the general interests of the wider public.

 

It’s politics man, politics!!!

[Countryman]

Just to add insult to injury I went and bought about a haversack full of Pyros this morning.

 

Stupid!

 

 

[Guest scalawag]

23 hours ago, Countryman said:

Just to add insult to injury I went and bought about a haversack full of Pyros this morning.

 

Stupid!

 

 

Oh don't get me started on that lol.  

 

I used to store blackpowder and make blank paper cartridges for a Reenactment group I used to belong too.  

To handle the stuff at all I had to have a control of explosive substances certificate from my local police force, and because I was keeping it at home this also had to be a certificate to "acquire and keep" which needed extra checks over and above the basic "acquire" certificate Including a visit to check out my house and the surrounding area as suitable.  Meticulous records of how much powder was stored at any time in the house had to be kept, and a locked non ferrous safe storage box had to be installed in my loft away from the general living areas of the house for this certificate too.  

I had to have a certificate from trading standards to register my home as an "explosive store" which also limited the amount I could keep at home at any one time. This is the same certificate that shops have to have to store fireworks when they sell them.

And then because I moved it around the country to reenactment events I also had to have a Health and Safety Executive "Recipient/Transfer Competency" document.  The powder had to be locked in a safe non ferrous box in the boot of the car when being transported, and could not be left in the car over night ( it had to be stored in a registered store over night).

One of these tickets renewed every year, one every 2 years and the third one every 3 years so I also had to keep an eye on what was running out when to make sure I stayed "Legal" Phew!!!!!

 

But in October/November every year I could go to the local shops, buy as many fireworks as I liked with no checks and no certificates needed, drive them home on the passenger seat of the car, and store them in a cardboard box in the corner of the lounge!!!!! go figure.