Looking to get a starter gun...

[dapprman]

You need to read Section 37 of the VCR Act. It says quite clearly that it is an offence to so, subject to the defences in Section

 

 

technically yes, but you need to read Section 37 of the VCR Act if you believe that you cannot make a RIF without risking prosecution.

 

Section 36, Subsections 1 a and b, of the VCR Act is the bit where it does indeed state that manufacturing a RIF is an offence, but Section 36, Subsection 2, states that Subsection 1 only has effect subject to the defences in Section 37. Thus it is a suitable defence for anyone charged with manufacturing a RIF under Section 36 of the VCR Act, if they can show that it was for the purposes of making that RIF available for airsofting.

 

In other words, so long as you are into airsofting and have been to a recognised (i.e. insured) airsoft skirmish site, you can cheerfully spray or remove paint from every single gun you own if you like and make it as realistic as you want, because if you were ever charged under Section 36 of the VCR Act, you would only need to prove that you did so for the purpose of using it in an airsoft skirmish. You don't even need a UKARA Registration to prove that, you could simply point them to the insurance waiver that you signed at an airsoft site when you first went there (which is a legal requirement for their insurance to be valid, so they will have got you to do so), which means it is down in writing that you are an airsofter from an independent witness. That being the case, any such prosecution would be dropped.

You could have completed quoting me in which case my text would also have said that you can if you have a valid defence - I edited my post a good 30-40 minutes before you posted your reply so please do NOT misquote me.

[Chock]

You could have completed quoting me in which case my text would also have said that you can if you have a valid defence - I edited my post a good 30-40 minutes before you posted your reply so please do NOT misquote me.

 

Misquoting is attributing something to someone which they did not either say or write, I quoted part of your post, the part I was responding to. The reason I did that, is because yours intimated that what I had written was incorrect, which it wasn't. More to the point, you even noted that yourself further down on your own post, which basically made it completely pointless to quote me in the first place.

[dapprman]

 

Misquoting is attributing something to someone which they did not either say or write, I quoted part of your post, the part I was responding to. The reason I did that, is because yours intimated that what I had written was incorrect, which it wasn't. More to the point, you even noted that yourself further down on your own post, which basically made it completely pointless to quote me in the first place.

You had written your original post as if it was perfectly legal to buy a two-tone because you did not have a defence to enable you to buy a RIF, then to convert it to a RIF. Your only warning was against melting the ABS plastic. MY post was fully justified.

[Chock]

You had written your original post as if it was perfectly legal to buy a two-tone because you did not have a defence to enable you to buy a RIF, then to convert it to a RIF.

 

It is perfectly okay for him to do that, if it is so he can go airsofting with it at a skirmish site. All of the defences relating to manufacturing a RIF mention in Section 36 are subject to the caveat at the top of Section 37, so it's worth noting the exact wording of that:

 

'It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under section 36 in respect of any conduct to show that the conduct was for the purpose only of making the imitation firearm in question available for one or more of the purposes specified'

 

So whilst not having a UKARA registration means the person could not easily buy a RIF, that is simply because traders have no easy way to check if he is into airsoft, i.e. it would be they who do not have a specific defence if they supplied a RIF to him, so as a consequence, they'd sell him a two tone. But he on the other hand does have one when it comes to knocking one up for himself: he is making it available for the purpose of airsoft. So I didn't mention any of that in my post.

 

I know, it's a silly law, and one which would be damn near impossible to enforce anyway, because as long as someone said, 'yeah, I'm off airsofting next week at such and such a place, it's for that.' if they got collared for painting a two tone up as a RIF, and Bob's yer uncle, the defence applies and the charge would be dropped. The CPS know that even the crappest, greenest defence brief in the world would just read that bit of the law out in court and the case would have to be dismissed, so they'd never go to the expense of even trying to take it to court. It's difficult to know how such a charge could arise anyway, providing they were doing that at home and not out in the middle of the street and acting like a dick with the thing, which hopefully nobody would be doing.

 

Back to the topic at hand however, the really important bit whether it's a RIF or a two tone, is stick it in some sort of bag of case when you travel to and from your skirmish, and you won't get any hassle at all. Nobody is going to check your defence if you do that, because simply being at the airsoft site skirmishing with it is your defence.

[Sitting Duck]

End of the day most sites don't give a $hit what you do with a 2-tone gun

 

"it's your gun do whatever you like with it"

was reply when I asked about spraying some bits

(site don't care though the law "may")

 

All down to interpretation - no you can't "modify" it which is altering the original appearance

(not scope, but in effect can't paint & turn an IF into a RIF)

 

In fact as I understand it even if you are on the ukara database that does not give you the right

to transform an IF into a RIF - it is still technically not allowed...

 

UKARA gives you a defense or reason to own a RIF but that does not mean you are gonna be ok

if you was a w@nker and displaying a RIF (or IF) out in public

 

In reality the owner needs to be aware there is some slight possible risk painting an IF

UKARA is one form of defense (plus it enables you to buy RIF)

being a regular airsoft player is the same - even if u18 if RIF/IF was "gifted"

 

All of this is a form of defense or reason to own a RIF

However - if questioned by police or worse hauled up in front of judge

then it won't mean much if owner was being a d*ckhead - ukara or not - IF or RIF

 

The whole ukara + vcra is not completely clear as glass, though you may be ok

but then you may not if the law (police/judge) wanted to be awkward about it

Though except for Daily Mail most people don't know or care much - it's a toy isn't it ???

 

bloomin' ukara/vcra always causes problems/rows/debates

I've probably got it all completely wrong yet again but if so then I have misunderstood once again

really think some smart ar$e lawyer/solicitor should rewrite it all in plain english for us thicko's

but that would probably cost mega bucks

So for the moment we shall continue with our own personal understanding or interpretation

(main thing is not to be a dickhead with your IF or RIF or IF painted to RIF)

[spirefan1]

Well, it arrived and im very happy with it, fired a few shots at some cans and it feels really good, very happy with the purchase, i agree with the battery post though, its a bit tough to get in but its sorted for now!

 

Bit of advice needed though, i live next to an alley and the law states you have to be 15 meters away from a public highway to use airsoft guns, does a small alley count as a public highway? We are surrounded by hedges exceeding 8Feet, if not higher, i mean i want to fire a few shots up to the top of my garden, but i dont really want to break the law, could somebody clear this up for me?

[Sitting Duck]

Use of an airsoft gun is mainly down to your nosey neighbours

by that I mean if they get the hump with you shooting it all day long

especially in summer if other people want to chill & relax.....

 

Last thing anyone wants is a repetative noise ZZZzzzzzziiiiippppppp ZZZzzzzzziiiiippppppp ZZZzzzzzziiiiippppppp etc......

or noisy oiky kids, loud music playing etc..........

 

As you are using an AEG it may attract attention of course or if next door gets pi$$ed they may "mention" it to authorities

 

You have a toy gun ffs, but due to age n crap and just to all get along we all - well I do...

try n keep it to the odd burst & short target shooting sessions....

Yeah I got my own private garden so I should be able to whatever the f*ck I like some might feel

truth is I don't want any extra $hit if I become annoying - well I am annoying but was meaning with my guns

and I do try to be a little considerate - if anything to just keep the peace

 

You "probably" can just fire off some shots in your own private garden/land if there is no danger to public

(peeps living in blocks of flats are kinda screwed there then I guess)

 

But like anything - do it in moderation, maybe not shoot off 1,000's of rounds especially if next door are out in garden

just common sense really - should be fine as long as it doesn't become annoying to next door

(though some neighbours are better than others - go easy)

 

oh and avoid shooting in house - them bb's go EVERYWHERE bouncing off walls etc...

also not wise to have to explain the new plasma/lcd is f*cked from you being silly buggers indoors

 

soz for lecture - not meant to come across like that - just go easy & you should be fine I reckon

yup I can understand to get out there and blast away - but that is what ya local site is for if ya mega trigger happy

zero/tune ya sights, tweak hop-up, little traget shooting, practice peeking left, etc...

that normally does me & keeps the peace

[BigAl]

Two very important things to bare in mind if shooting in your back garden:

 

1. Make sure no bb's leave your land, even ricochet's.

2. Make sure no neighbours or passers bye can see you.

 

Failure to obey these, especially number 2 could lead to you meating the local ARV. Infant if you are going to shoot in you r garden it may be a good idea to inform your neighbours what you are doing.

[Sitting Duck]

Well I suppose you could mention it if ya have a good rapport with next door

Mine understood very early on when they saw me & son taking stuff out on weekends all kitted up

 

Made a bit of fubar once trying out a modification - didn't realise it was 6:30am after I returned from work shift - oops

but they were ok once I ate some humble pie and said soz for being too dumb to notice the early morning time

 

other than that we seem to get along ok.....

 

Well apart from a couple of BFG's going off - yeah that deffo isn't a good idea to $hit ya neighbours up

but I have been a good boy recently and tried to grow up a little

[spirefan1]

I think ill just leave back garden shooting, im not too bothered about the neighbors since i get on with them quite well and they would understand if i told them, also im not the type to be annoying, if i did shoot it would only be for 5 minutes a day, shed target shooting lol.

 

Im more worried about the Public footpath/Alleyway, whilst they cannot see onto the garden through it, im sure the sound might attract some attention, i think ill just play it safe and shoot at a registered site.

 

Maybe if i got in touch with the police and asked about it they could give me a definate answer? Police round where i live seem to be all down to earth and ok, that being said, ive never been on the wrong side of them ;p

[Sitting Duck]

5 mins is fine, if you had a responsible grown up with ya if you are u18

then you are gonna look less suspicious with a 2-tone IF doing some target shots in ya back garden

 

I don't know how much a passer-by could actually see clearly with their own eyes

only you know that for sure so it is up to you to judge if what they can see in

 

I know some people are thick but a kid shooting a 2-tone "toy gun" in his back garden

is hardly an all attack from IS, but then the world is a bit more jittery atm

but you get the idea and suspicion won't be too high if you are careful and discreetly use common sense

 

I'd be more worried about some guy storing a load of fertilizer & chemicals in a garage looking shifty

than a kid plinking in his back garden once in a while with a painted toy gun

 

LASTLY - ffs don't be tempted to show off or be stupid like say

 

ooooh lets see if I can hit that can from bedroom window.........

That isn't just f*cking stupid it is seriously gonna raise alarm bells coz that will be seen from a way off as a possible threat

and that is extremely likely gonna get a visit you don't want

 

End of the day - only you know the situation at home/alley so YOU have to make the choice

But you sound sensible and wouldn't make it a regular annoying habit.....

 

Once you got it all set-up, zero sight, hop sorted roughly and then get the urge bug out of the way

then you probably won't be chomping at the bit with the urge to empty a few mags will subside a bit

 

Most of the time if I fire some shots its to test a gun's fps on chrono

or if I have down anything to it and see what it does now - a lot less than when I started a year ago

[Chock]

Bit of advice needed though, i live next to an alley and the law states you have to be 15 meters away from a public highway to use airsoft guns, does a small alley count as a public highway? We are surrounded by hedges exceeding 8Feet, if not higher, i mean i want to fire a few shots up to the top of my garden, but i dont really want to break the law, could somebody clear this up for me?

 

Sounds like a public highway to me (see definitions below).

 

As far as UK law is concerned, there is no such thing as a 'public highway', because the word 'highway' itself means a pathway which the general public can go down. However, the description 'public highway' is used in some laws to clarify that people have a right of way along it. A highway can be one of three things as far as the UK is concerned; a carriageway (i.e. a road which cars can go down), a bridleway (which people, horses and bikes can go down), and a footpath (which you can only go down on foot, such as the pavement alongside a carriageway or an alleyway). So if the alley is somewhere that Joe Public can pass through, then it is a 'public highway'.

[Sitting Duck]

Ahhhhh now I see the potential problem with law, ricochets/safety aspect

(though 15m is actually a little low distance - range wise unless is based on a JBBG gun)

 

soz - now chock has explained it a bit more to moi

it might be wise to maybe avoid raising suspicion so close to the alley

 

alas we have to be a little careful in the way we conduct ourselves to avoid agro & all that

 

sorry once again for not quite grasping it how close & potentially risky it really might be

my bad once again

[Chock]

Yup. I mean it's really rather unlikely, but their is always the possibility of a ricocheting BB whizzing miraculously through all the gaps in a hedge and hitting someone in the eye, and if some neighbour reports you and the fuzz decide to do something about it, then they may possibly charge you with putting the general public at risk even if nobody was hit and no actual BBs even went through the hedge, since in effect, you would have been putting them at risk.

 

I sometimes take my rifles into my garden to work on them, and have fired them in my garden too, but always into a sand trap that I made which is up against a tall brick wall with nothing beyond it that could allow someone to be hit by a stray shot, and never more than one or two shots to test stuff. Since my garden is very long and not easily overlooked if you stay up the end nearest the house, I can get away with that, but I'm aware that with things like air rifles, they do make quite a loud report, and I think a lot of people would recognise what that sound was and not exactly be thrilled at it going on next door to them, and I wouldn't blame them, because my B12 air rifle is about as close to the energy limit of a non FAC rifle as you can get, it looks like an AK and it is very loud, and they don't know I'm firing it into a sand trap. So I'm always very careful about that and especially about letting any neighbours see anything, because even though I'm perfectly entitled to do it, some of my rifles would look pretty goddam scary to the average person, after all, a lot of them are perfect lookalikes of assault rifles and such, and that alone is enough to get you into trouble if someone feels threatened by them.

[spirefan1]

Ahhhhh now I see the potential problem with law, ricochets/safety aspect

(though 15m is actually a little low distance - range wise unless is based on a JBBG gun)

 

soz - now chock has explained it a bit more to moi

it might be wise to maybe avoid raising suspicion so close to the alley

 

alas we have to be a little careful in the way we conduct ourselves to avoid agro & all that

 

sorry once again for not quite grasping it how close & potentially risky it really might be

my bad once again

Haha no problem, and i think ill pass on back garden shooting for now, i let out about 10 shots into the grass just to check it was working and i think ill leave it at that, dont want anybody ringing up the police on me because if they did they could charge me since i do live about 10 metres from the alleyway lol, there is no chance of a bb going through there though, the hedges are approx 10 feet tall and they are holly (As thick as anything) but still, the law wouldnt see it that way, i also live in an estate where there are a lot of children so i think ill be considerate to them, some parents might not like the idea of some nutter shooting some bottles in his back garden haha.

 

Yup. I mean it's really rather unlikely, but their is always the possibility of a ricocheting BB whizzing miraculously through all the gaps in a hedge and hitting someone in the eye, and if some neighbour reports you and the fuzz decide to do something about it, then they may possibly charge you with putting the general public at risk even if nobody was hit and no actual BBs even went through the hedge, since in effect, you would have been putting them at risk.

 

I sometimes take my rifles into my garden to work on them, and have fired them in my garden too, but always into a sand trap that I made which is up against a tall brick wall with nothing beyond it that could allow someone to be hit by a stray shot, and never more than one or two shots to test stuff. Since my garden is very long and not easily overlooked if you stay up the end nearest the house, I can get away with that, but I'm aware that with things like air rifles, they do make quite a loud report, and I think a lot of people would recognise what that sound was and not exactly be thrilled at it going on next door to them, and I wouldn't blame them, because my B12 air rifle is about as close to the energy limit of a non FAC rifle as you can get, it looks like an AK and it is very loud, and they don't know I'm firing it into a sand trap. So I'm always very careful about that and especially about letting any neighbours see anything, because even though I'm perfectly entitled to do it, some of my rifles would look pretty goddam scary to the average person, after all, a lot of them are perfect lookalikes of assault rifles and such, and that alone is enough to get you into trouble if someone feels threatened by them.

Like i just said, there is very very very little chance of the bbs leaving our area, however the police would still say there is still a chance (Even if it is minuscule) so ill leave it, i fired about 10 shots into the grass to test it was working and its all good so ill leave it at that, the surrounding people would be unlikely to report me if i explained to them since we all get on quite well, but there are plenty of people who walk through the alleyway who are not from around where i live who might be a little uneasy with it, and with me being approx. 10 metres from the alley ill play it safe.

 

Cheers for the help guys, appreciated.