Internal Upgrades (Advice)

[lukelively34]

Hi Guys,

 

Haven't been on in a while so figured I post this and see what people have to offer, Basically I bought a G&G GR15 Raider L a while back and now I'm looking into upgrading the internals.

 

Don't really have a budget as I can save for the parts unless it's thousands then thats a no, no

 

But yeah basically looking for something that will provide 370FPS (On 0.2's) and a high ROF

 

Thanks Guys.

[Russe11]

370fps will be too hot for almost every site. 350fps is usually the limit.

[Saber6-1]

Out of the box, you should be shooting 330-370fps. What did you last chrono at? Like Russe stated, 370 would be too hot for most sites. As to rate of fire, how many rounds per second are you looking at? I don't mean any disrespect with these next few questions, but they will identify the kind of player you are:

 

Do you use your AEG as a battle rifle or machine gun?

Do you take the time to line up sight target or do you "spray n pray"?

 

If you are using your M4 as a machine gun, then yes, hi rate of fire to compensate for lack of accuracy, but conversely, if you are using it as a battle rifle, perhaps look at optics. Make your rounds count.

[lukelively34]

370 is my sites limit and stock the chrono was 365 but the gun has now had a few thousand BB's through it so it could have gone down I know your point it been too hot for most sites however I only go to one airsoft site.

 

To the second quote our site doesn't like us to blind fire I have a red dot sight and use it quite a lot so if that answers your question, then I'm the sort of person to look down my scope.

[Russe11]

See what it chrono's at next time you go. If it's over 340, I wouldn't bother changing the spring. To increase rate of fire, the easy way is to install a mosfet and use a higher power battery such as an 11.1V LiPo

[lukelively34]

See what it chrono's at next time you go. If it's over 340, I wouldn't bother changing the spring. To increase rate of fire, the easy way is to install a mosfet and use a higher power battery such as an 11.1V LiPo

Running a 7.4 at the moment

[Saber6-1]

With a 7.4 I would recommend a battery upgrade. It would give you the best results you are looking for without making the weapon too "hot"

[lukelively34]

With a 7.4 I would recommend a battery upgrade. It would give you the best results you are looking for without making the weapon too "hot"

 

From a 7.4 lipo to a 11.1?

 

EDIT:

 

From a previous comment I'm guessing the internals of a GR15 are pretty solid, an idea I have in mind would be just to get a 6.03 inner barrel (thats if the gearbox etc. is pretty much good enough as standard.)

Edited October 8, 2014 by lukelively34

[BrightCandle]

When you put the gun through chronograph you could also ask for a rate of fire test as well, it can do both. But when it comes to doing your own tech work on guns personally I avoided getting a chronograph of my own for as long as possible, and found out its an essential tool. So this is your first purchase, its about £70 and it'll allow you to test the speed and rate of fire in your own home. You'll probably also need something to shoot at to catch the BBs to stop them going through the walls as that would be bad. The chrono is so important because it tells you how close you are to your current goals without having to go to a site or specialist range to get it tested.

 

FPS is all in the pneumatic part of the gun, that is the spring, the cylinder, cylinder head, piston, piston head, nozzle and hop chamber. FPS can be raised moderate amounts by improving the air seal and this will also improve consistency and hence its the first thing to do. It really depends where air is leaking from so you have to take the gun apart and push on the piston/cylinder combination yourself to feel where the air leaks are initially coming from. More often than not its the piston head, cylinder head and nozzle but sometimes the hop chambers don't fit too tightly and in others the cylinders just aren't that well made (although these can be hard to replace in some guns, not yours but many others have custom cylinders due to EBB and such).

 

Rate of fire is mostly about the electrical parts of the gun. Increased battery voltage increases the motor speed which increase the rate the gears spin. So to increase rate of fire you can just get a higher voltage battery. You can also get a faster spinning motor. The high voltage 11.1 lipo's will increase rate of fire quite a bit ( about 50%) but the one problem they introduce is arching on the trigger contact which will wear it out. Arcing requires the fitting of a mosfet so unless your confident in doing that I would try to get more at a lower voltage. All that extra speed gets dumped into the gears so depending on how fast you want to go you may very well need a new high speed gear set as well. You can also get gear sets that fire twice per revolution and then you really get into a lot of complexity like short stroking and other stuff. In essence the quick easy route to a bit more ROF without a lot of work is a faster motor.

 

Typically a G&G GR15 will clock in around 12-14 rounds per second out of the box and they tend to target 328 fps / 100m/s / 1J. With a new faster motor (£50 max) you can raise that to more like 16-20 with very little work and its low enough that you don't get into the sort of serious problems you will have with very high speeds.

 

Getting a double O ring cylinder head that fits well, a better piston head or even just a new O ring for it and a nozzle with an O ring will likely raise your FPS 10-20 on their own (my experience of the combat machines and top techs is there is quite a lot of air leak in these parts but yours might be different) and none of these cost much to replace. So my advice is start with that chrono, work out where you are currently and then take the gun apart and check that air seal. Then work out what parts you need to buy to fix the air seal and along with it talk to the shop about motors. I personally don't know which motor you would want to buy because I am not into the high ROF thing. But once you have fixed the seal (or determined its perfect which it might be, probably not!) then you know how far you are away from the goals generally and you know what to target next. Ultimately if FPS is still too low and the seal is perfect then you can go about replacing the spring. Replacing the spring is definitely the easiest way to get FPS but adding more power into a leaky system isn't a good idea for accuracy and I tend to think the point of having that extra FPS is to also have a gun that shoots further, and that is a lot about the hop up, barrel and consistency of the pneumatic system.

[lukelively34]

When you put the gun through chronograph you could also ask for a rate of fire test as well, it can do both. But when it comes to doing your own tech work on guns personally I avoided getting a chronograph of my own for as long as possible, and found out its an essential tool. So this is your first purchase, its about £70 and it'll allow you to test the speed and rate of fire in your own home. You'll probably also need something to shoot at to catch the BBs to stop them going through the walls as that would be bad. The chrono is so important because it tells you how close you are to your current goals without having to go to a site or specialist range to get it tested.

 

FPS is all in the pneumatic part of the gun, that is the spring, the cylinder, cylinder head, piston, piston head, nozzle and hop chamber. FPS can be raised moderate amounts by improving the air seal and this will also improve consistency and hence its the first thing to do. It really depends where air is leaking from so you have to take the gun apart and push on the piston/cylinder combination yourself to feel where the air leaks are initially coming from. More often than not its the piston head, cylinder head and nozzle but sometimes the hop chambers don't fit too tightly and in others the cylinders just aren't that well made (although these can be hard to replace in some guns, not yours but many others have custom cylinders due to EBB and such).

 

Rate of fire is mostly about the electrical parts of the gun. Increased battery voltage increases the motor speed which increase the rate the gears spin. So to increase rate of fire you can just get a higher voltage battery. You can also get a faster spinning motor. The high voltage 11.1 lipo's will increase rate of fire quite a bit ( about 50%) but the one problem they introduce is arching on the trigger contact which will wear it out. Arcing requires the fitting of a mosfet so unless your confident in doing that I would try to get more at a lower voltage. All that extra speed gets dumped into the gears so depending on how fast you want to go you may very well need a new high speed gear set as well. You can also get gear sets that fire twice per revolution and then you really get into a lot of complexity like short stroking and other stuff. In essence the quick easy route to a bit more ROF without a lot of work is a faster motor.

 

Typically a G&G GR15 will clock in around 12-14 rounds per second out of the box and they tend to target 328 fps / 100m/s / 1J. With a new faster motor (£50 max) you can raise that to more like 16-20 with very little work and its low enough that you don't get into the sort of serious problems you will have with very high speeds.

 

Getting a double O ring cylinder head that fits well, a better piston head or even just a new O ring for it and a nozzle with an O ring will likely raise your FPS 10-20 on their own (my experience of the combat machines and top techs is there is quite a lot of air leak in these parts but yours might be different) and none of these cost much to replace. So my advice is start with that chrono, work out where you are currently and then take the gun apart and check that air seal. Then work out what parts you need to buy to fix the air seal and along with it talk to the shop about motors. I personally don't know which motor you would want to buy because I am not into the high ROF thing. But once you have fixed the seal (or determined its perfect which it might be, probably not!) then you know how far you are away from the goals generally and you know what to target next. Ultimately if FPS is still too low and the seal is perfect then you can go about replacing the spring. Replacing the spring is definitely the easiest way to get FPS but adding more power into a leaky system isn't a good idea for accuracy and I tend to think the point of having that extra FPS is to also have a gun that shoots further, and that is a lot about the hop up, barrel and consistency of the pneumatic system.

 

Thanks for the information, one thing I was going to do was buy a complete gearbox but after asking around and seeing if things are compatible no-one has actually said yes to a gearbox been compatible due to the Blowback. One company did advise me that I would have to go straight to G&G to get a upgraded gearbox.

 

As for the motor I was thinking High Torque/speed a bit of both as from what I've read high speed motors don't seem to last as long.

 

Don't flame me if this is wrong it's just from what I've read trying to learn about internals.

[BrightCandle]

The blowback does indeed mean gearbox shell upgrades and cylinder upgrades aren't possible. They probably don't matter much to your goals however.

[Lozart]

 

Thanks for the information, one thing I was going to do was buy a complete gearbox but after asking around and seeing if things are compatible no-one has actually said yes to a gearbox been compatible due to the Blowback. One company did advise me that I would have to go straight to G&G to get a upgraded gearbox.

 

As for the motor I was thinking High Torque/speed a bit of both as from what I've read high speed motors don't seem to last as long.

 

Don't flame me if this is wrong it's just from what I've read trying to learn about internals.

 

 

Depends if you want to keep the blowback though. On the Raider it's just a bit of noise really, it doesn't lend much in terms of recoil.

[BrightCandle]

I doubt it does any more than visual and sound just like on the T4-18 I have. But the assumption is that people want to continue to have it remain working. I certainly don't think the cylinder is so bad it needs replacing in these G&G's, it seems solid and smooth enough. I guess the one time you might want to replace the cylinder is if you want a bore out one, but I can't see that being necessary here.

[lukelively34]

I doubt it does any more than visual and sound just like on the T4-18 I have. But the assumption is that people want to continue to have it remain working. I certainly don't think the cylinder is so bad it needs replacing in these G&G's, it seems solid and smooth enough. I guess the one time you might want to replace the cylinder is if you want a bore out one, but I can't see that being necessary here.

 

Basically you're right I only got the blowback as I wanted "more realism" If gearbox upgrades aren't required (after a chrono) then I suppose it the only upgrades I would only need to do is maybe inner barrel, 11.1 lipo, mosfet?