Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted July 30, 2012 Supporters Share Posted July 30, 2012 I've decided on the TM Sig, I had a go with one at a skirmish yesterday and the only thing I noticed about it that slightly bothered me was the light weight of it. The feel and the kick, considering it's plastic, are comparable to my MEU on green gas, which is full metal. So I'm more or less sold on it. However. I can't decide whether to get the regular one, or the E2... I think they both draw on looks, so there's no competition there, but the E2 is far, far newer. Does it have any enhanced internal parts? Or is it exactly the same? If they're the same then I figure it'd be stupid to get the E2 since it's about £30 more... There's got to be some reason for that. Additionally, does anyone know where I can get either model? I've looked in all the UK shops I can think of and can't find one anywhere. I even asked Patrol Base if they could locate one for me and they said they were stumped. I've been looking on forums and an awful lot of people seem to have added the Guarder metal kit, so I'm wondering, will it still perform well with the metal kit on it? What about in cold weather? I've always thought that metal pistols were bad simply because they're metal, which gets cold and makes the gas vent all over the place. I assumed the reason TM pistols were good was because they're plastic, which in comparison to metal probably keeps the gas warm, hence the good performance everyone talks about. Am I right in making those assumptions? Or will a TM pistol with a metal kit on it still be better in terms of gas performance than other pistols? How would it compare to the KWA NS2 system, or KJW's TM cloned system inside a metal shell? 'Cos both of my KJW pistols have been sh*t in the cold, even this weekend, when I'd have said it was really effing hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulld0g Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Pro airsoft supplies do both for same price but are out of stock at the moment as well as zero one airsoft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted July 30, 2012 Author Supporters Share Posted July 30, 2012 Yup, I've checked: Landwarrior, Firesupport, Patrol Base, Wolf Armouries, The Range, Swindon Airsoft, JDAirsoft They're all out of stock. Anyone know of any other shops? Edit: Now also checked: Eastmidlands airsoft, The Grange shop, Badger Tac, G1098, Airsoft Armoury, Airsoft World, Military 1st, Tactical Quartermaster All either out of stock, or don't stock it. Struggling to think of any others. Does anyone know the email address for Redwolf's UK office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulld0g Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 on zero in forums quite a few are on for sale for around £100 and ehobby asia do it but it is based abroad so you may have to pay a lot on duties and customs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tariq Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Zero One sell them, but dunno if they have stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted July 30, 2012 Author Supporters Share Posted July 30, 2012 Just forgot to add Z1 to the list. It was one of the first places I checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w02057 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 The normal version is better I feel as it's more comfortable, on the E2 your hand kind of sinks into the grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted July 30, 2012 Supporters Share Posted July 30, 2012 I prefer the older one to hold, even though I've got small hands the grips feel better- but that's down to personal opinion. Not sure what differences there are but the E2 mags do seem to be a little better and look pretty cool too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted July 30, 2012 Author Supporters Share Posted July 30, 2012 Mags are interchangeable though, right? I'm leaning towards the standard one, I have quite big hands so that thinner section of the grip at the top of the E2 will probably give me a poor grip, don't want too much extra finger hanging around the trigger. I imagine the E2 grips also prevent you mounting laser grips, which is something I'll probably do at some point down the line. The standard one is also cheaper in most places lol. Killer question though - TM + metal kit... How would it compare to other pistols? Still better than all the other full metal ones? Still work well in the cold? Are TM pistols good because of their quality parts, or just because they're plastic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbo Knight Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Mags are interchangeable though, right? I'm leaning towards the standard one, I have quite big hands so that thinner section of the grip at the top of the E2 will probably give me a poor grip, don't want too much extra finger hanging around the trigger. I imagine the E2 grips also prevent you mounting laser grips, which is something I'll probably do at some point down the line. The standard one is also cheaper in most places lol. Killer question though - TM + metal kit... How would it compare to other pistols? Still better than all the other full metal ones? Still work well in the cold? Are TM pistols good because of their quality parts, or just because they're plastic? Allow me, if you would . Larger hands will get along just fine with a regular P226 grip, but before you commit to buying you might want to try out the E2 grip just for the sake of comparison if nothing else, I don't have the largest hands in the world (medium glove size, I'm not sure how that translates compared to the average hand span or anything but it's a measurement at least) and I got along famously with my P226, as long as I wasn't wearing gloves. To the best of my knowledge there are laser grips available for the E2 but they're going to cost considerably more than an airsoft replica would, but that's to be expected really. A TM with a metal kit can perform awfully or incredibly compared to other pistols depending on what you do to it, yes it seems like a great idea to stick a 150% spring kit into it, but I guarantee you that it won't work very well, or at all if you're unlucky. TM P226's don't do well with a heavy hammer spring, I don't know why but I speak from experience when I say that they just don't work so stick with the stock hammer spring and get high flow valves in all your mags, it does the same job just without the negative effects (the increased amount of force required to push down the hammer, also breaks the decocking lever after a while). Nineball gas routers come highly recommended by everyone who uses them, increased gas consumption, increased kick and FPS... What's the downside? Nothing, because they're basically optimising the flow of gas from the mags to the pistol, and they provide a better seal than stock routers. Cheap and very effective, just add a little bit of silicone grease (not anything else, that's important because the oils and sprays aren't thick enough to maintain a decent seal) to seal it and it's one of the most cost effective upgrades you can get. You can use enhanced recoil springs, but I wouldn't go to mad with them. I think I was using a 130% in my sig before I sold it, but I use a stock one in the winter. Now about the kit you should choose because that might possibly be the most important part of it I highly recommend Prime. I have a Prime kit for my WA 1911 (which actually, I got in trade for my Sig) and not only is it incredibly good looking, it's also very well built. The slide has minimal wiggle in it, making any mag sealing issues practically non-existent. Prime kits are known for quality, you're paying a bit extra for them (around the region of $260 which is about £160 without import taxes ect, when you consider you're paying £140 for the Guarder kit from FS then I'd personally say that it's well worth the extra.) I haven't heard anything bad about the Guarder kit which is good, but I got a chance to handle a friend's Guarder kitted E2 and I'd have to say the finish is only okay. I haven't gotten my hands on a Prime kit for the E2 yet, but they're a reputable company and I'm a bit of a fanboy so I will stand behind any of their products unless I've seen proof that they're bad. It's worth mentioning that Creation and PGC also do kits for the P226, I'm not sure if they do an E2 variant though. I think TM pistols work well because they have a good mag seal, and they're not throwing back a massive lump of heavy metal every time they fire. Less mass - less energy required - more shots ect. The quality plays a huge part in it, they're not precision machined obviously but to function as well as they do, they have to be made within certain tolerances. Generally the better the parts, the better the performance but that's the same with most things. Not always though, so it's worth looking around. And last but not least, I do believe that mags are interchangeable . Sorry if some of that made no sense, I haven't had much sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted July 31, 2012 Author Supporters Share Posted July 31, 2012 Cheers Cerbo, that was a great help. I think if I manage to find the standard version anywhere I'll pick one up. Don't think I'll bother touching it unless I feel it doesn't live up to expectations though. How do the high flow valves work? Are they magazine upgrades, or do they replace a part in the blow back mechanism? Are they expensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltyyy Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 After holding the KJW Sig, there's not much weight difference, not worth getting a metal kit at all as you can stick propane in the mags and use it in winter. My site manager Felix advised me against the E2 as the extra money wasn't worth it, but ALWAYS get the E2 magazines as the early ones have leaking issues. Try F&O retail, you may be able to get one sent to you. I will highly advise against the metal kit though, one of my buds tried putting a metal kit on, didn't like it and took it off, wasn't working as well, the plastic just feels nice and works well. I would recommend a falcon hop rubber though, I can actually snipe people will the darn thing The high flow valves go onto the magazine I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tariq Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Metal kits don't really seem worth it IMO. The KJW might be lightweight but the my KWA isnt. 1.1Kg as opposed to the 800g of the TM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted July 31, 2012 Author Supporters Share Posted July 31, 2012 The KJW is much heavier than the TM, the first thing I noted when I picked up the TM, as I said in my first comment, was that it was noticeably lighter. The KJW is 1.1kg as well, roughly the same weight as the real steel. The feel and experience of shooting it were familiar to me though, which is what I was impressed by, since the TM is made of plastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbo Knight Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Cheers Cerbo, that was a great help. I think if I manage to find the standard version anywhere I'll pick one up. Don't think I'll bother touching it unless I feel it doesn't live up to expectations though. How do the high flow valves work? Are they magazine upgrades, or do they replace a part in the blow back mechanism? Are they expensive? High flow valves are literally just that, they replace the standard valves in the mags so they can let more gas through. They're not particularly expensive but you will need one for each mag you have, so if you have a lot of mags it can get pricey but they're worth every penny. Glad to help After holding the KJW Sig, there's not much weight difference, not worth getting a metal kit at all as you can stick propane in the mags and use it in winter. My site manager Felix advised me against the E2 as the extra money wasn't worth it, but ALWAYS get the E2 magazines as the early ones have leaking issues. Try F&O retail, you may be able to get one sent to you. I will highly advise against the metal kit though, one of my buds tried putting a metal kit on, didn't like it and took it off, wasn't working as well, the plastic just feels nice and works well. I would recommend a falcon hop rubber though, I can actually snipe people will the darn thing The high flow valves go onto the magazine I believe. I had two older style mags with my sig, not saying that you're wrong but mine didn't have a single leaking issue. I think most people never maintain their mags and when they leak, they complain about them. I can promise anyone that mags will never leak as long as they are maintained properly, unless an o-ring breaks then that's different. Though I would have bought the E2 mags if I didn't already have 2 of the old ones, there's less parts to go wrong on the E2 ones. Your mates sig wouldn't work as well with the metal kit as the stock plastic would, it needs more energy to cycle the slide with the kit. That's why you need to add high flow valves and the nineball gas routers. And fair enough to the people who say metal kits aren't worth it, and that you can buy a KJW/KWA ect... but they're made of pot metal. Metal kits are generally made from aluminium and there are a few that are made from steel but there are none made from pot metal. My opinion is, that you can have one of these pot metal sigs for a year, or maybe even a few if you get a good run with it but they'll eventually break down and spares for the KWA aren't exactly an easy thing to source. I'll admit that KJW customer service is supposed to be excellent though. With a metal kitted sig, you're not going to have that problem because given the proper maintenance the aluminium will far outlast any pot metal, and the best part of all is the resale value. You also have the advantage of TM internals and a standard list of parts to choose from if you need a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltyyy Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I meant to say it didn't work as well for him after he put the plastic back on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I've often thought about getting the E2 as its supposed to be a more refined pistol in more respects than just the grip. I remember reading when it was first released that the Mags are more thermally efficient than the normal 226 mags and the percentage they gave was high (can't remember it offhand) and offers less cool down. There's even a metal kit available for it. On the subject of metal kits, I've just put a Guarder one on my 226 and it's great. I know winter will be a problem, but I've got another plastic gun for that. I got the kit from Mike Cripps who was selling it at half price just to get rid and once fitted it works beautifully. Recoil is just awesome with that metal slide flinging itself back and the weight is massive now. I'd already upgraded the 226 with nineball gas routers, 6.03 tightbore, nineball hop bucking and so I just added a 150% spring (as mentioned by previous posters, the stock hammer spring Is sufficient) and it works great. Pull the trigger and hold on tight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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