rjmcgough Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I know that if someone gives me a RIF for my birthday, christmas etc I have a valid defence as I am a skirmisher and allowed to keep it as RIF. But what if my parents buy me a IF for my birthday. Can I spray it black as I have a valid defence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters TPI Posted April 17, 2012 Supporters Share Posted April 17, 2012 an IF is a 2 tone i think you mean RIF if your site owner will atleast vouch that you are a Regular then yes you do not have to spray it 2 tone (Note i'm saying this as if airsoft was the only way to avail yourself to a defence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boro Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Why don't they just buy you a RIF if you have a defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR01 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Why don't they just buy you a RIF if you have a defense? Probably because they can't buy it without their own defence. Only the registered skirmisher can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperpirate Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 if YOU have a defence and its a present for YOU then let them give you the money and buy it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Finius Posted April 18, 2012 Supporters Share Posted April 18, 2012 I know that if someone gives me a RIF for my birthday, christmas etc I have a valid defence as I am a skirmisher and allowed to keep it as RIF.But what if my parents buy me a IF for my birthday. Can I spray it 2T as I have a valid defence Anyone can give anything they own to anyone in terms of airsoft (i.e. a skirmisher can buy a realistic looking gun and then give it to a non-skirmisher who is under eighteen), provided the giving is from sheer kindness and is not a form of remuneration for effort etc. Anyone above eighteen can purchase an IF and give it to anyone. To receive the gift you do not need the defense. Likewise, if you are given an RIF, you do not need to spray it funny colours, the law says nothing about ownership as a concept nor the transfer of rights in the giving of a gift. The laws only apply to purchase, sale or manufacture and import, so once someone has something, they can do pretty much what they want with their title over it (i.e. their right to possess it), provided they maintain proper form for selling it on. I could legitimately buy an M60 tomorrow, get bored of it and give it to the ten year old next door whose dad is always shouting at him for f**k all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjmcgough Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 sorry slight mistake in first post Can I spray it 2T as I have a valid defence Was supposed to say Can I spray it black? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Finius Posted April 18, 2012 Supporters Share Posted April 18, 2012 Unless you're also 18, then no. If you're eighteen and a skirmisher, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjmcgough Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 Unless you're also 18, then no. If you're eighteen and a skirmisher, yes. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazeh Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Unless you're also 18, then no. If you're eighteen and a skirmisher, yes. The defence against import, manufacture, sale or modification of an IF to a RIF doesn't have any sort of age limit attached to it. It's only the purchase of an IF that requires someone to be over 18. There's no reason under the VCRA why someone under 18 who fulfils the defence criteria can't spray a two tone black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Finius Posted April 20, 2012 Supporters Share Posted April 20, 2012 There's plenty of reason, mostly because of Section 38 (IIRC) - Supplying RIFs and IFs to minors. It doesn't specifically mention manufacture, but remember our courts work based on the spirit of the law, and in this case it means to keep RIFs out the hands of minors. Please write to the HO and obtain proof if you feel I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazeh Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 There's plenty of reason, mostly because of Section 38 (IIRC) - Supplying RIFs and IFs to minors. It doesn't specifically mention manufacture, but remember our courts work based on the spirit of the law, and in this case it means to keep RIFs out the hands of minors. Please write to the HO and obtain proof if you feel I am wrong. I believe you mean section 40 which talks solely about purchasing and selling to those under 18. There's no indication it has any interaction with the application of the defence against the offences specified in section 36 or that there's any age limit at all on using the defence. The claim that it does seems to be nothing more than another of the several 'myths' that have arisen over the years about the law and RIFs/IFs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Finius Posted April 21, 2012 Supporters Share Posted April 21, 2012 You've missed my point entirely. It's a grey area that exists in the minds of the judicial system; they'll see the purpose of the act overall and apply it how they see fit. The fact is, there's a chance that a minor who manufactures, defense or not may be convicted. One judge would convict, another might not - the point is, it's not safe. Especially when you consider the Home Office have stated the ONLY solid and absolute defense that 100% guarantees our safety is UKARA Registration, which an under eighteen cannot hold (and thus cannot prove to a court they are a skirmisher with 100% Home Office Assured certainty). Their guidelines on UKARA being very specific and it being made clear to the airsoft community as a whole that UKARA was our best deal. Yes, there are other options, and I prefer to utilize those other options (I don't even know my UKARA number), but they're not guaranteed and would most likely have to be up to the same standards as UKARA Reg. At the moment, no-one has been arrested or charged for it, so honestly, we have no legal precedent to know and until such time as we do, it remains a grey area. If you've read law either academically or professionally (and are thus qualified to advise), you'll know full well that my point is valid and that you're giving unsafe advice that whilst technically accurate leaves massive potential for disaster. I feel you've raised a fair point however, it's been five years since we got the VCRA and there's still no readily accessible document which explains this particular problem; I'll send off a letter to one of the members of the committee we worked with at the Home Office and try and obtain some written decision, though I imagine it will simply be left for a judge to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.