Want an upgrade, will it cope?

[SCAR_Jester]

Hello all,

I have an ICS CXP-16 L (full metal). I wanted it to fire a bit faster or at least decrease the time the motor spins p so I'm going for an 11.1v LiPo.

Only problem is I don't know if the motor will handle it? The gears are steell, the piston is metal too so no upgrades are needed internally unless the motor sucks ass.

It is fitted with an ICS Turbo 3000 Long... does this suck? or am I good to go?

 

Thanks

[team flex]

I think you would actually be looking at getting a mosfet, it acts as an electronic gate between the trigger switch and the motor in the gearbox. This can then allow you to use 11.1 lipos. The bottom line is don't use over a 7.4 without a mosfet. I don't know much about them, so maybe ask someone who knows a lot about them.... but I don't think it's a good idea without a mosfet.

[SCAR_Jester]

I think you would actually be looking at getting a mosfet, it acts as an electronic gate between the trigger switch and the motor in the gearbox. This can then allow you to use 11.1 lipos. The bottom line is don't use over a 7.4 without a mosfet. I don't know much about them, so maybe ask someone who knows a lot about them.... but I don't think it's a good idea without a mosfet.

Oh ok, I guess that would also decrease the response time, as well as being safer. I shall have a think, but thanks anyway.

If anyone else has info on the motor please let me know!

Thanks

[BrightCandle]

The motor will almost certainly be fine with a 11.1 V lipo, they are usually designed for 12V or a little more. However the trigger contacts will see arcing with a 11.1V lipo and this will degrade them much faster than with the usual 7.4 or 9.6 V nimh. So while with a 7.4V a mosfet is somewhat optional its definitely not optional on an 11.1V lipo. If you don't want to rewire the gearbox and such you could try an inline mosfet like the burst wizard. But really the best way is to wire in a BTC or other mosfet into the trigger and the external part so that the large voltage doesn't run through the trigger contacts. In addition it would be a good idea to switch to deans connectors for 11.1V to reduce the temperature/resistance of the connectors. Tamiya connectors do get hot when dealing with high voltage and current batteries and its possible to melt them on full auto so its usually best to switch to a low resistance connector as well.

 

There are a few different ways to reduce the firing time depending on the root cause of the slow speed. Some of the problem could for example just be a long trigger pull and reducing that down with a bit of shimming of the trigger could make a pretty big difference. Then it could also just be the motor struggling to turn the gears and pull the spring, a softer spring and some shimming of the gears could help reduce the issue. You could also move towards a torque motor that will have a moderate ROF but get started really easily. Or you could have a lot of electronic resistance and want to rewire your gun and switch to deans. 11.1V is kind of a hammer approach, it will help reduce the problem but it doesn't focus on the core issue causing the slow ramp of the motor, it just pumps more juice at it to get it moving faster without attacking the reason why its slow, but in the process it puts more strain on everything in the guns electronic system.

[SCAR_Jester]

The motor will almost certainly be fine with a 11.1 V lipo, they are usually designed for 12V or a little more. However the trigger contacts will see arcing with a 11.1V lipo and this will degrade them much faster than with the usual 7.4 or 9.6 V nimh. So while with a 7.4V a mosfet is somewhat optional its definitely not optional on an 11.1V lipo. If you don't want to rewire the gearbox and such you could try an inline mosfet like the burst wizard. But really the best way is to wire in a BTC or other mosfet into the trigger and the external part so that the large voltage doesn't run through the trigger contacts. In addition it would be a good idea to switch to deans connectors for 11.1V to reduce the temperature/resistance of the connectors. Tamiya connectors do get hot when dealing with high voltage and current batteries and its possible to melt them on full auto so its usually best to switch to a low resistance connector as well.

 

There are a few different ways to reduce the firing time depending on the root cause of the slow speed. Some of the problem could for example just be a long trigger pull and reducing that down with a bit of shimming of the trigger could make a pretty big difference. Then it could also just be the motor struggling to turn the gears and pull the spring, a softer spring and some shimming of the gears could help reduce the issue. You could also move towards a torque motor that will have a moderate ROF but get started really easily. Or you could have a lot of electronic resistance and want to rewire your gun and switch to deans. 11.1V is kind of a hammer approach, it will help reduce the problem but it doesn't focus on the core issue causing the slow ramp of the motor, it just pumps more juice at it to get it moving faster without attacking the reason why its slow, but in the process it puts more strain on everything in the guns electronic system.

This helps a lot thanks, though many players have given me a tilted head when I say I only run an 8.4v NiMh yet it fires like a 9.6v / 7.4v LiPo. Wind up time is not a massive problem atm.

So I think a cheap change to deans = easy 10min job, 11.1v LiPo Annnnnd a mosfet... might go for an inline or get a tech to fit it inside.

[BrightCandle]

This helps a lot thanks, though many players have given me a tilted head when I say I only run an 8.4v NiMh yet it fires like a 9.6v / 7.4v LiPo. Wind up time is not a massive problem atm.

So I think a cheap change to deans = easy 10min job, 11.1v LiPo Annnnnd a mosfet... might go for an inline or get a tech to fit it inside.

 

7.4V is actually the minimum voltage for a lipo, once a cell gets to 3.2V you have to stop using it or you damage the cell. Lipos actually start at a higher voltage, around 8.4V after charge and then gradually drop to 7.4V, and they sit somewhere around 7.9-8.0 at the 50% mark. So they do feel basically the same as a 8.4V nimh for good reason. They do however provide a lot more current, and in some motors that can pull that current they can dramatically help the motor get going and pull tougher springs. But if the motor isn't helped by the extra current then there isn't really a lot of difference between the nimh and the lipo because its the same voltage.

 

I recently had the unfortunate experience of using a big nimh 8.4V battery on my Tar 21. I had forgotten my battery and got a nimh loaner from the site owners. I didn't notice any difference in motor turn over speed on semi auto from the lipo 7.4V but I did notice a difference on full auto. The full auto was quite a bit slower on the nimh despite the similar voltage and I also had problems on full auto with consistency that isn't there with a lipo. So the current can matter if you have the motor to utilise it, but if you don't then its all about the voltage. I think most motors benefit from more current availability on start but in my experience on that gun its a minor effect.

[dex]

As above, if you are considering using 11.1 lipos, get a mosfet installed. Don't use plug and play ones, they are purely for features such as 3 round burst etc. Also, use Deans connectors, I have no idea why they don't come as standard on AEGs.