G&G Firehawk low ROF

[Oshia]

I just bought a Firehawk and the ROF is pretty low compared to the vids I've seen, I'm using a 7.4 lipo.
Anybody have any idea's why, the same battery in my Masada gives great ROF.

[Monty]

New or second hand?

[Oshia]

Brand spanking

[Ian_Gere]

Mini Tamiya connectors or Deans?

[Monty]

Mini Tamiya connectors or Deans?

 

Probably Tamiya's.

[Oshia]

Still on Tamiya, only got it earlier today. They have put some kinda wax in the hex bolt where I'd check the motor so I don't fancy voiding the warranty.
My PTS is still on Tamiya too and its running a hell of a lot higher ROF with the same battery. I dunno if I'm just unlucky, its a schoolboy error or its something to do with my battery.

[Ian_Gere]

Well, if the same battery runs one gun fine and when you swap it straight into another gun it doesn't run fine, the 2nd gun is at fault, eh?

 

Mini Tamiya connectors are not very good because both sides connectors are formed from thin brass which is easily bent, so there could easily be a poor connection between one of the pins and its corresponding sleeve. Shine a torch into the female connector and see if there is any shite in there, or if one looks wider than it should. You may be able to sort it out with long nose pliers. If that is not the case, and you are sure of the motor connections, the next most obvious culprit is the trigger - it may be possible to clean it by spraying some computer Drive Cleaner in there, but I'm not sure this is such a good idea, considering that it would get into the interior of the gearbox and may dissolve grease you want to stay where it is.

 

Other than that, there's no point having a warranty if you don't invoke it...

[GiantKiwi]

Could you link the video you are referring to? The ROF stock is less than a PTS Masada, as it has a different gear ratio, Masada is a high speed setup whereas G&G gearboxes are all HT arrangements as standard.

[Sitting Duck]

what exact ROF are you referring to - is the Firehawk really that slow

are we talking less than 15rps & other gun is 20rps ???

 

really silly question but what pistol grip is fitted to your FH ???

 

apart from a couple of variants with battery/without and US or EU market

there seems to be 2 different grips fitted to Firehawks

 

NOW I may be adding 2 + 2 and getting 5 but here is what i mean:

 

G27 type of grip: http://www.landwarriorairsoft.com/airsoft-weapons-c38/electric-rifles-c45/g-g-g-g-fire-hawk-p3375

 

plain texture grip: http://www.zerooneairsoft.com/product_info.php?products_id=9475

 

I think the first batch had the G27 type and these do seem a bit quicker than the plain grip ones...

Now they may have made some revisions - due to stock, reliability, cost or whatever reason

 

They "seem" to mainly ship with plain grip - well this summer they seemed to appear as opposed to G27's

 

How or what am I basing this $hit on - I own both types and imho the plain grip FH has lower ROF - not massive

but deffo doesn't seem as quick - both still on Small Tamiya btw but the G27 is deffo a bit quicker

 

By that I am saying aprox 20rps Vs say 15.5ish on say a 9.6v or 9.9v Life

but haven't chrono'd these for a while myself

 

If my hunch or complete b0ll0cks theory is correct, then I may think they may have used nigh the exact same

stuff but perhaps the first batches might have used a more beefy motor in the small run supply back at Easter

 

I don't think they would of used a higher speed ratio as they probably would grab same CM16 g/box to chuck in

but maybe they used a beefy motor either to give it a good review, or after some of their mosfet AEG's failed

G&G might have thought - whoa best tone it down a bit

(no mosfet in FH but just using the mosfet problem as example)

 

Now all this may be me reading too much into this but i did notice a difference in the 2 versions

then again you never get 2 of anything the exact same either so put it down to one is sweet & other not bad

could be a pi$$ poor build/shimming in one or perhaps not exact same build/motor in the other

 

if your FH has the G27 grip then that screws my theory/difference in two FH's

think Giant Kiwi's FH had the G27 grip - but he also had deans connectors on there too I think

but first lot of reviews said she fired pretty damn quick indeed

 

but we both also have a slightly slower Firehawk it seems

 

none of this crap really helps but thought I would type up some crap findings/theory I have about them

[Oshia]

Sitting Duck, its the plain grip, I'll make a short vid of the FPS on a 7.4v soon and you can judge if this is normal or not as you have both types.
I was hoping for the high ROF I've seen in almost every review vid and I'm a little pissed its not up to par.

[Oshia]

Not a very professional vid here excuse the language, i'm a recovering man flu victim, but you get the idea; both on the same 7.4.
The Masada has a mosfet so it might not be a very fair vid, but judging from what I've seen on other youtube vids of the Firehawk the FPS SHOULD be equal to the Masada.

[Sitting Duck]

Think the plain FH has a more standard motor in

 

deffo G27 is faster - just compared side by side aprox 16 vs 20 as I said

not a massive amount that you notice straight away but when compared

side by side - hang on a sec that don't seem as quick

 

yeah you got mosfet and possible better wiring - hitting at guess 22-ish

similar to a CM18 with high speed motor in we have

 

possible option is to replace FH motor with high torque/speed

 

OR - maybe swap motor's in the 2 guns and perhaps the ROF should balance

out at say 18-ish but this is mega guess work and tbh if other is running sweet

then leave it as is - think leave massada is a good idea tbh

 

If it ain't broke - don't try to fix it

(something I need to take on-board more)

 

reckon get a SHS / ZCI / Big Dragon motor and that should claw back some

and leave you with a FH to be proud of

 

but yeah - deffo the plain FH's seem to have a lower ROF than first batches with G27 grip

 

soz - but it is a pi$$er but then FireHawk's are hard to find and a replacement may be a while

and is such a dinky gun that everybody talks about she comes out of bag...

 

noticed you changed the loud mouthed flash hider - yeah can give the owner a headache

(let alone your team mates especially in buildings - f**k she can be a loud bitch inside)

 

I share you slightly lower ROF on my one - (son nicked my first rapid one I got)

but still a nice gun for money - shame it may need a tweak now that G&G have toned her down

 

(well that was my impression of them and your FH seems to follow this atm but still guesswork)

[Oshia]

I was hoping to get it and leave it completely standard for my CQB games and as a sniper sidearm so I'd have a good chance vs the full auto lads.
The ROF is what drew me to the FH as I would have picked a MP5K, this is bloody annoying, if I'm gonna fiddle with it then I might aswell do it right and mosfet it if I'm gonna be swapping motors.
Maybe a braking mosfet would up the FPS enough for me to be satisfied.. its gonna be fun finding somewhere to put one too.
Its a shame its not up to par with the first batch and have that nice pistol grip.. still a really nice gun.

Oh I have a Noveske sound hog on there now which seems to even louder than the standard amplifier!
It didn't pick up how loud it is on the vid, but everyones gonna know who's firing when they hear it

[GiantKiwi]

Ok, watched the video, that sounds like a standard CM16 Gearbox and Motor, first batch had Toptech internals, which will be the difference in ROF and the sound.

[Sitting Duck]

you also put a crane stock on there probably coz like me

you got fed up messing with the friggin thin batteries in tube

 

Got a cheapo stubby fixed one on both FH's

saves all that pi$$balling about and most time stubby is fine for quick fire shots

on waiting for longer shot and waiting for the enemy to walk into line of sight

yeah could do with a click more adjustable stock but hey ho can't win them all

 

for about £140 she still is good value with other bits on there

 

LWA want £33 for the FH amplifier - no way would I pay for migrane

and the VS02 stock on the FH is crazy money £50+

pah - cheapo knock off one for about £12:50 - wtf is gonna know difference ???

 

but yeah shoved a £15 aprox black stubby on there which has loads of room for

battery of almost any size/shape and you could easily chuck in mosfet too I think

 

cqb is what she was made for but she ain't bad out in the woods either

 

last game of day marshal tells everyone to load up for......

this is when the box mag comes out and all hell breaks loose

very loud and very heavy fire is unleashed upon enemy team

[Oshia]

So will it be ok with a mosfet and new highspeed motor or am I gonna rape the gearbox?
It does say its ready for a 11.1v LiPo so it should be ok right? *fingers crossed*

[Sitting Duck]

deffo higher end motor - might have put in TT box too but

am sure they tweaked it a bit on first batch to make sure she would sell well

 

they was talking about an even high ROF model coming out end of year

but if G&G have started to pull this lower rate crap on subsequent batches

then I think I won't be tempted to get another

(may as well tweak my one a bit - once i get the hang of it a bit more)

[Oshia]

I pulled the soundhog and crane stock off a Troy M4 I have which is currently in pieces awaiting a new cylinder nozzle and nozzle as it was leaking air pretty bad. (bought for £35)
I was considering putting an m4 patriot stock on there so theres plenty of room for a 11.1v ^^
Gonna go for a braking mosfet, the trigger response is good but not great, I'll get the little bastard singing like it should

[Sitting Duck]

even standard CM16 g/box's should have 8mm bearing in there

and they are miles better boxes than crap SRC

 

we fitted a high speed one to a CM18 and ran with old school 9.6v

which was probably banging out 10.6v+ at first

seems like the AR or AR spring has started to fail a little

 

BUT - if you staying with 7.4v and fit a mosfet you really really should be fine

our CM18 is firing fine most of time but now n then you hear box roll back

(might be a sticky AR spring I suspect)

our little problem may have been due to pushing it too much but think a fair

amount of bad luck too - might have failed in a few months but beefy volts

didn't help maybe and she played up a bit sooner than later

 

think you will be perfectly fine especially with mosfet and lower volts

she will fire quicker and last longer too |I reckon but I am still learning also

you are going about it all in the perfectly correct way in my book

[Oshia]

Cheers for your help guys, I just have to wait till payday to order some bits, still not chuffed about having to faff with it, but I probably would have stuck a braking mosfet on anyway.
I'll post when its all done and see if that fixes it.

[Ian_Gere]

The FH sounds like a nasty shim job and not enough grease to me.

[Sitting Duck]

yup but my ear has less experience than many on here (or hear)

and/motor height slightly out of wack - both will reduce rof etc....

 

also listening on vid's things sound a tad different perhaps

but deffo pointing out there where some changes made

maybe they changed ratio say from 18:1 to 16:1 and/or beefy motor

 

maybe recent G&G's may have had some less than perfect shimmed boxes

or lower "just chuck it in" build quality maybe...

 

But think motor will help and if he is fitting mosfet & redoing the wiring in box

then can check if the shimming is $hit too

I would be very interested as I'm in same boat but still reasonably happy with my

own less than snappy FH

 

Shame these lower FH's appeared, but like the TT mosfet problem - G&G are not

without their flaws but way better than most value for money M4 makers

(they make higher end stuff but most bread n butter probably comes from low/mid range stuff)

 

I love the CM18 - and think G&G's 2 x 30th edition models were not best lookers

should of done a nice metal receiver CM18 for one their releases

then again think they should do a clear Raider for beginners as well

 

soz for waffle post again - if OP susses out or manages to get her singing like she should

then please enlighten us with your findings - muchas gracias squire

(and fanx to all on here that assist noobs like me trying to learn as I go)

[Sitting Duck]

FINAL UPDATE & SOZ FOR NOT CONFIRMING THIS BEFORE

 

G27 rapid Firehawk DOES have Top-Tech Gearbox in

 

Plain grip FireHawk has STANDARD CM16 Gearbox in

 

sorry chaps - putting them away and clocked the magwell and can deffo see

a larger TopTech Hologram sticker on G27 one and grip motor cover has red

paint presume to deter tampering and invalidate warranty

 

Plain FireHawk has smaller normal G&G sticker and is same box on CM18 & CM16's

no red paint on different grip motor cover

 

So there ya go - G&G threw in a top tech gearbox deffo on initial first batch of FH's

but just fitted the normal CM16 box on second batch with plain grip

 

probably 16:1 on TT box Vs 18:1 CM16 box

dunno about motor coz the rapid one has tamper red paint

at first glance the box looks about the same from what little I could see

but maybe they used higher speed gears and took a little more care in shimming/assembly

think all G&G's from about March were using TT boxes & 8mm bearings but maybe ratios

are different (must be) and perhaps better shim plus better piston/cylinder seals perhaps

but first glance box could well be a TT gearbox case but with standard build spec on slower FH

 

mystery solved - sort of so OP might wanna check change gear ratio if still after nutter ROF perhaps

whilst he has her all in bits - if he does the full monty of motor/gear/mosfet it should easily wipe the

floor/range with the first batch of FH's - hassle but might have to do this too

(probably have my sneaky son nick it and give the old one once he's knackered it with box mag)

 

Kiwi was right - seems like a proper full TT box in there - bastid G&G looking for great first reviews

[jcheeseright]

like Ian said, the fire hawk gearbox sounds AWFUL, that high pitched noise it's making isn't the motor. it's the gears screaming at you that they're too tight.

 

Shim and grease it properly and I'm sure it'll not only sound nicer, but perform better too.

[Oshia]

Bastards, I'm gonna write to G&G and complain.
Well I have new SHS metal tooth piston, piston barings, alloy nozzle with seal and cylinder nozzle with 2 seals to stick in there when I open her up to sort the mosfet.
I will re-shim it and possibly change the motor, if its still not up to par then I'll change the gears too. The SHS shit was for an M4 project but I might aswell use it in the FH and stick the FH stock crap in the TROY M4.
I must say I'm really pissed off with G&G, I watched a thousand vids and reviews before ordering her, all with fantastic reviews and the ROF was insane.. its SHITE on the stock one I have now, I want it firing like a laser beam!
And the annoying thing is, I can't open her up until the mosfet arrives as I have a game on sunday and want to use it, I aren't gonna open it just to put the nozzles in when its running at 330fps already.
Thanks Sitting Duck, this info has been very useful.