New Airsofter, London, Pros/Cons Starting Airsoft with GBB Pistol

[Sacarathe]

EDIT:

Going to be posting updates from my airsoft experiences to this thread, sort of blog style.

Original Post:

Spoiler

Update: Going with TM G17.

Intro

TL;DR at bottom.

Hi (first post), I found this forum today and I have found it to be really on topic with resources for getting into airsoft - and I have yet to delve outside the new player/weapon review areas.

I live in Greenwich currently and my nearest site is Bunker 51 (walking distance) and as far as I knew operated by Wolf Armouries, but (thanks to this place) at least one (Airborn Airsoft) other organiser.

I have lots of plans regarding protective gear, I really like these below (in addition to knee pads, boots, hats/helmets): Goggles Bravo V2 Strike Mesh Mask with Ear Protection

UKARA

I am not Ukara registered, and due to a congenital disability I will need to fork out £300 for my boots before I can start. Once registered I will buy a G&G M4.

Gun

Wolf Armouries (as far as I know: currently) run a hire purchase scheme which in effect allows players to pay £30 hire fee per game (on top of the game fee) but you use specifically selected weapon which is yours to keep after 3 sessions for £75 off it's price.

I have done extensive research and found 4 other skirmish sites within an hour (south only) and 3 other brick and mortar stores in london.

I would like to know what people think about starting Airsoft with (a) side arm only(?)

For the sake of argument it must be an item Wolf Armouries are prepared to supply:

<Page 1> <Page 2> <Page 3> <Page 4> <Page 5>

My personal requirements are that it has an underrail - blowback is prefered but not required.

I have diagnosed that starting with a Tokyo Marui is a smart choice.

I don't know whether gas or electric will be more complicated for a starting sidearm, I have read that AEGs all the way for SMG/Rifle etc. But the TM Electric's have voltage compatibility issues.

I want to start with a sidearm because:

1. I have a sight issue which for the sake of simplicity causes me to have right hand left eye dominance. I want to learn to get out of this, but if I don't like airsoft with a rifle/smg hire gun or hirepurchase gun(very bad) it could be costly.

2. Wolf armouries don't stock a rifle or quaility brand SMG* in my price range (<£150+ mags batteries) (for a starting gun). This was originally reason number one but the other would always be true.

3. (A bit weak) I'll need a sidearm eventually anyway. And I'll save on unwanted slings.

Cons (I have figured out for myself):

1. Much more reloading for a new player.

- they (WA) operate a 600 BB ammo limit - I don't know how big pistol mags are for gas/electric but I understand it is something like 6mm * Mag length

2. Limited Range - Fairly unimportant if getting Ukara registered at a CQB site.

3. Tactical Limitations: No storming positions.

TL;DR

Summary Questions:

Feel free to comment on any of the above.

AEG vs Gas Sidearms information please? TM Electric side arms complications (WA mentions voltage converters)?

Does blowback on a sidearm reduce the longevity of the battery/gas/mechanism?

Can I attach a tracer mod to a sidearm?

I wouldn't mind a general list of items I need for purchasing a gas or electric specific sidearm(?) - with general and common stuff left out, eg BBs cleaning kit etc.

What Mag size upgrades exist for sidearms? I want to go milsim in the end, but to start I just want to avoid wasting £75 on weapon hire.

General Question:

Glasses or Contacts for Airsoft?

How hard is the lower recieve to change out (for the sole purpose of changing the colour) on a Tokyo Marui P90?

*I did find these on Wolf Armoures, but I am not currently interested:

SRC Brand SMGs (under £155)

KWA Brand SMGs (under £155)

ICS MP5 MX5 A5 Tactical Handguard AEG (£155)

Tokyo Marui H&K MP5K A4 AEG (Tempting, but no, willing to give a go if strong objection to starting with a sidearm is voiced.)

Other Wolf Armouries SMGs: <Page 1> <Page 2> <Page 3>

Their site layout really sucks, if they were not my gateway I doubt i'd buy anything.

Regards,

Andrew

EDIT:

I am not asking for people to chose me a gun which is TM with an underrail, but perfectly happy if people want to take the time too look at the options on Wolf Armouries and make a recommendation (£<150). Advice on the main topic and electric vs gas in the correct context is the main objective.

Also, discussion of brands is awesome but I am not particularly interested in any rifle weapon class discussion at this time - will make a new thread when UKARA'd if needed, though I doubt it as this place is very informative.

EDIT2:

I am aware of the distinctions between:

AEP

AEP w/ Blowback

Gas Powered Pistol

Gas Powered Pistol w/ Blowback

But not the effect on power/gas consumption of blowback versus non-blowback.

 

[Baz JJ]

Welcome to the forum.

If you just use a pistol which has small mags compared to an SMG, you are liable to be outgunned.

If you have plans to move on from CQB to outdoor games, then I would look at an AEG SMG or a gas TM pistol.

Pistol blowback will use more energy but IMHO its worth it - for the effect - just carry enough gas.

Have you read the WA review on here ? there are cheaper retailers.

http://www.airsoft-forums.co.uk/index.php/topic/9865-wolf-armouries/

Personally I'd go contacts rather than glasses - spectacles are a pain, both from a steaming up point of view and wearing with face protection.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Go to £155 and get the ICS MP5 MX5 A5 Tactical handguard aeg. Its a good cqb gun nice and light and more versatile than just a pistol. Ics guns are well built so you wont have to worry about it failing for a while. I know a few that are a couple of years old and have been skirmished a lot and never had a single issue. Thats wolf armouries price there are cheaper shops.

 

[Airsoft_Mr B]

If MP5s are your thing I'd also recommend the G&G MP5A4 (http://airsoftzone.co.uk/egm-mp5-a4-blowback-aeg-gng?filter_name=mp5)

An SMG will be better than a pistol from my experience, and would work well if you did an outdoor skirmish too, where a pistol would struggle to reach longer ranges. Plus you're limited by magazine capacity, using gas all day is expensive (at least buy a propane kit instead) and a pistol would struggle in terms of performance to reach out very far

My dad needs glasses with bifocal lenses and couldn't get any eye pro to fit over it properly. The only thing we've found works are Bolle PILOT / PILOPSI goggles, which have a slit inside to allow your glasses frames to sit underneath.

Downside is that they are bright orange inside though. Only other option as far as I know are prescription lens inserts for certain goggles and glasses.

Blowback pistols are using more gas as it's also powering the slide movement for each shot, whereas NBB all is used to propel the BB. So sacrifices some 'realism' you could say (just more fun to shoot with blowback really) < hope this answers that question

 

[Sacarathe]

Welcome to the forum.

If you just use a pistol which has small mags compared to an SMG, you are liable to be outgunned.

Yep and the other thread, it looks like they suck a little but it's my only reasonable choice to get UKARA registered, and frankly while I am sure their hirepurchase scheme is unusual and intended for its purpose - to sell more guns and save them wear and tear on their hire guns, its £75 saved towards the UKARA registration.

As for mags, yes, that is a problem. I'm hoping some hi-caps are available.

Go to £155 and get the ICS MP5 MX5 A5 Tactical handguard aeg. Its a good cqb gun nice and light and more versatile than just a pistol. Ics guns are well built so you wont have to worry about it failing for a while. I know a few that are a couple of years old and have been skirmished a lot and never had a single issue. Thats wolf armouries price there are cheaper shops.

That is helpful to know. The price yes, generally i've found WA prices not comparable with other stores (worse).

If MP5s are your thing I'd also recommend the G&G MP5A4 (http://airsoftzone.co.uk/egm-mp5-a4-blowback-aeg-gng?filter_name=mp5)

An SMG will be better than a pistol from my experience, and would work well if you did an outdoor skirmish too, where a pistol would struggle to reach longer ranges. Plus you're limited by magazine capacity, using gas all day is expensive (at least buy a propane kit instead) and a pistol would struggle in terms of performance to reach out very far.

Well, once I am registered I am certainly going to immediately get a G&G M4 for outdoor and indoor use - WA dont stock any cheap reputable rifles.

My main problem is the right hand left eye dominance. It could be a sport killer.

I'm going to wolf armouries store tomorrow to find out the order time on their out of stock items and find out if they are willing to get in a non listed gun, that £75 is too much not to save, particularly as their hireguns have been defined as bad in two threads on this forum and once elsewhere.

If GBB is using more gas but not sacrificing power I can live with that.

 

[Sacarathe]

Actually Wolf Armouries online reputation seems to be particularly bad, that's partly why I am put off doing hirepurchase of a £350 gun (TM P90) because they keep it for 5 weeks after youve effectively purchased it. Thus the £150 weapon cap(soft).

 

[SeniorSpaz87]

Ok...well, here's my thought. Today at The Mall one kid came with pistols only; he did well. Another guy's G36 ran out of battery, and I lent him my G17 for the duration of the game, and we held out on the balcony for a long time. In CQB, pistols can hold their own, you just need to think about your engagements. Also, if full auto is allowed, then pistols do give you the disadvantage of ROF. I am also left eyed right handed, and I shoot pistols with my left and anything else with my right; as I've been able to train myself to use both eyes; and when using sights with a large FOV then eye dominance doesn't affect shooting as much as with iron sights.

 

[Russe11]

http://www.wolfarmouries.co.uk/airsoft/bb/product.asp?page=product&id=29PTLTMSCM23

This is possibly one of the best CQB guns ever. 28 round magazine and it's virtually silent which means that what you lose in firepower over people with AEG's you can make up for in stealth and agility.

That said an AEG will be something you will want in the long run.

I also am right handed and left eye dominant and it took me a long time to get used to using iron sights. Consider investing in a cheap red dot sight.

 

[BrightCandle]

In Bunker 51 you can be pretty competitive with just a pistol. Most of the shots are done at fairly close range and if you don't suppress you aren't going to need much ammo in there. Because the games are mostly just static shoot at each others you can choose the level of ammo consumption to an extent. You'll need a couple of spare mags but I have seen people pistol their way through games there and I have done games with just my pistol on that site. But bare in mind that site kind of sucks really badly, its not a good example of an airsoft site. The hirepurchase scheme is a little flaky, multiple people have requested their guns be brought to game and ended up with them not only forgetting to bring it but also having to pay hire costs to get a hire AK just to play for the night, its daylight robbery. They aren't the only site that does hire purchase (I think you can do it at Billericay Skirmish in their shop as well) for UKARA purposes and you can learn the sport in a different site.

On a different site its unlikely you'll want to start with a sidearm however, but many don't ridiculously overcharge for hiring and hence you can play out your pre UKARA period without it costing insane amounts of money. Most of the economic issues driving you to your decisions are based around Bunker 51, but its the worst site in London by a country mile and its to be avoided. If you go elsewhere you'll find the economics of things change quite a bit and that is what I would recommend you do.

 

[SeniorSpaz87]

For CQB go to The Mall in Reading

 

[Sacarathe]

Right, after spending far too long researching this and reading your replies and two PMs, I have had to conclude that starting with a sidearm is too probably complicated and expensive.

Mainly expensive.

As I've said I'm looking to avoid my right hand left eye dominance issue and take advantage of the Wolf armouries Hire purchase to save £75 (and avoid crappy hire guns) - I would just select the Tokyo Marui P90 TR - except that ealier I found that for sale at Zero One £60 cheaper than WA.

It's just a case of picking a gun at Wolf Armouries with a price within £50 of their competitors that is not too expensive - having my shoes adapted is going to cost £320-400 (for boots) drains my funds immensly.

Just hoping they will order in a cheaper M4 than those on their site.

Of course if not for UKARA I'd just go straight to the TM P90 £250 (or the PS90). Little sad about that.

Dispite what I've wrote I still want to start with a sidearm.

EDIT:

In Bunker 51 you can be pretty competitive with just a pistol. Most of the shots are done at fairly close range and if you don't suppress you aren't going to need much ammo in there. Because the games are mostly just static shoot at each others you can choose the level of ammo consumption to an extent. You'll need a couple of spare mags but I have seen people pistol their way through games there and I have done games with just my pistol on that site. But bare in mind that site kind of sucks really badly, its not a good example of an airsoft site. The hirepurchase scheme is a little flaky, multiple people have requested their guns be brought to game and ended up with them not only forgetting to bring it but also having to pay hire costs to get a hire AK just to play for the night, its daylight robbery. They aren't the only site that does hire purchase (I think you can do it at Billericay Skirmish in their shop as well) for UKARA purposes and you can learn the sport in a different site.

On a different site its unlikely you'll want to start with a sidearm however, but many don't ridiculously overcharge for hiring and hence you can play out your pre UKARA period without it costing insane amounts of money. Most of the economic issues driving you to your decisions are based around Bunker 51, but its the worst site in London by a country mile and its to be avoided. If you go elsewhere you'll find the economics of things change quite a bit and that is what I would recommend you do.

Aboslutely, if I was not living IN greenwich borough I would not even consider it. I have read many of your posts which have been quite illuminating. I would be beyond pissed if they tried to get me to pay the hire, i think i'd just go home and stuff the deposit.

I can get transport (I dont drive) to other sites but I am not comfortable with the travel distance (while still having so many concerns about airsoft to think about). I can get to that venue for £3 return from my residence.

That makes getting UKARA registered quite cheap at under £100 + hire purchased gun. Problem/complication is batteries/gas.

Can you get UKARA registered from 3 events in 2 months at different sites?

Tbh after hire purchase and BBs/mags/Gas I don't plan to shop at wolf armouries any further their site is too much of a pain and their manufacturer ranges too narrow.

 

[Sitting Duck]

at a risk of pi$$ing more people with my budget spam....

http://www.onlybbguns.co.uk/hg-104-m92f-beretta-hfc-hg-104-m92-gas-pistol.html?filter_name=hfc&page=3#.VSr03Y7p8i4

http://www.onlybbguns.co.uk/gg-106-hfc-gg-106-mk8-compact-gas-pistol.html?filter_name=hfc&page=3#.VSr1CY7p8i4

buy 1, buy 2 but perhaps get an extra mag at same time at a slight reduced price

some gas to get ya going etc....

RC10 = 10% discount code

would suggest perhaps getting the 104 - coz I know TWG do the 104/105 Green Gas mags really cheap

get ukara then over at TaiwanGun - when ukara'd, you can get the 104/105 or mk23 socom at silly prices and cheaper extra mags if needed

plus get a decent M4/AK/G36 very very cheaply too

but for now you could get by with a green gas pistol for about £30 or £27 with discount for all non-ukara peeps

well you could get a cheap mk23 but personally I'd wait for ukara and get it at TWG

http://www.onlybbguns.co.uk/hfc-hg-302-mk23-airsoft-gas-pistol.html?filter_name=hfc&page=2#.VSr3fo7p8i4

or half price

http://www.taiwangun.com/en/mk23-heavy-weight-gas-pistol-stti?from=listing&campaign-id=19

 

[Sacarathe]

http://www.onlybbguns.co.uk/hg-104-m92f-beretta-hfc-hg-104-m92-gas-pistol.html?filter_name=hfc&page=3#.VSr03Y7p8i4

http://www.onlybbguns.co.uk/gg-106-hfc-gg-106-mk8-compact-gas-pistol.html?filter_name=hfc&page=3#.VSr1CY7p8i4

I'll give this serious consideration, though it's becoming more clear to me that my problem is the UKARA restriction and not money or that the local site offers hire purchase.

If there was not the UKARA restriction i'd buy a Gun right now, up to £350 - I know its against all typical advice, but I know what I want, and I know what I want to pay for it.

I am normally a very slow decider, so knowing what I want now is quite helpful.

 

[Sitting Duck]

sorry I thought it was additional cost related since you have to pay out for boots etc.....

was trying to show you that you can get started with some half decent stuff cheaply

but to be fair most cheap stuff from sites with BB is really crap

actually most doesn't cover it - a bloody lot of BB site stuff is $hit for kids plinking

but there a few things that are pretty decent without breaking the bank

I am very very sure the MK23 HFC Stti SRC is same one as ASG

not TM MK23 - no way

but ASG buy a lot of their stuff from other makers & rebrand it

the ASG electric or AEP Glock is a Cyma 030 Glock for example

anyway - just thought I'd chuck a cheap n cheerful option to get you going

once you got ukara and if you think you are hooked like most of us

GO FRIGGIN' NUTZ AND BUY THE LOT - oops soz thats my motto

Oh and you need to skirmish at same site for ukara really

(well you might get lucky and they allow you skirmish at more than one but I doubt it)

The main reason is your ukara entry - there is no such thing as license just you on a database of saddo's that play with toy guns

your ukara number is linked to your main skirmish site

you might get a memership card from your site and that may have your ukara number on it

but it is not a ukara license as such coz it doesn't exist - just your name etc.. on a database of regular skirmishers so to speak

Hence the reason you probably have to do your games at same site, they might fast track it but I really doubt that and make you wait

the time or a little longer - some process them very quickly mine I waited a bit longer and I was chomping at the bit to get my first RIF

Getting into airsoft is like passing your driving test I think

Yes you can buy a bloomin' nice motor but most of use start off slowly, and when we think are gonna treat ourselves

more often than not the next car or gun we buy is not the same we really thought we wanted a while back

by the time you get ukara'd I would reckon you have seen some other guns you like the look of

(note to myself - I do not need any more guns, well maybe just one more (or two))

 

[Sacarathe]

Ok, so we all know the wolf armouries site sucks, and we all know there are problems with bunker 51, but as I live £1.50 from it, and it has hire purchase, and I have the rather worrying right hand left eye dominance, without further ado - All the Tokyo Marui Pistols on Wolf Armouries:

All their pistols: <Page 1> <Page 2> <Page 3> <Page 4> <Page 5>

Theres a lot :- 47 Gief Tables!

I stripped out the brand name for the sake of our eyes, they're all Tokyo Marui

I think I want to avoid the AEP (automatic electric pistol), only weapons in bold are under consideration, items are linked because they have rails under/over OR if I cannot tell their rail status (Glocks mostly).

Ideally I want to be able to fit a tracer onto this gun.

Extra Short List: (3)

Ranked these three on looks alone.

Spoiler

S&W M&P9 GBB Pistol (£130)

Glock 26 Advanced GBB Pistol (£125)

H&K HK45 GBB Pistol (£125)

Shortened List: (11)

Spoiler

S&W M&P9 GBB Pistol (£130)

Glock 26 Advanced GBB Pistol (£125)

H&K HK45 GBB Pistol (£125)

Hi-CAPA 4.3 Desert Warrior GBB Pistol (£120)

Strike Warrior GBB Pistol (£125) - Does this have a rail?

XDM-40 GBB Pistol £130)

Sig Sauer P226 Railed Frame GBB Pistol (£125)

FN Five-seveN Black GBB Pistol (£125)

Night Warrior GBB Pistol (£130)

Sig Sauer P226 E2 GBB Pistol (£130)

Glock 17 GBB Pistol (£120) - Does this have a rail?

H&K USP Electric AEP Pistol (£115)
Beretta M93R Electric AEP Pistol (£130)
Glock 18C Electric AEP Pistol (£120)
H&K MK23 Socom NBB Pistol (£120) - Not Blowback, Not sure what this particular LAM Unit is.

- £130 price cap - I am willing to stretch to £140 for an exceptional item.

£140-£145 List: (5)

Spoiler

Foliage Warrior GBB Pistol (£140)

Glock 18c GBB Pistol (£140)

Beretta Px4 GBB Pistol (£140) - Does this have a rail?

Glock 17 Foliage Green Custom GBB Pistol (£145)

Glock 17 Flat Dark Earth Custom GBB Pistol (£145)

Full List: (47)

Spoiler

S&W M&P9 GBB Pistol (£130)

Glock 17 GBB Pistol (£120)

H&K HK45 GBB Pistol (£125)

Beretta M92F Chrome Stainless GBB Pistol

Colt 1911 Series 70 Nickel Finish GBB Pistol

Samurai Edge Chris Redfield Ltd Edition GBB Pistol

Sentinel Nine Leon Model Biohazard P226 GBB Pistol (£235)

Desert Eagle .50AE Chrome Stainless GBB Pistol

Foliage Warrior GBB Pistol (£140)

Glock 18c GBB Pistol (£140)

Colt Government 1911 Series 70 GBB Pistol

Colt M1911A1 GBB Pistol

MEU .45 GBB Pistol

M9A1 Stainless GBB Pistol (£165)

Desert Eagle .50AE GBB Pistol

Glock 26 Advanced GBB Pistol (£125)

Detonics .45 Combat Master GBB Pistol

Beretta M92F Silver Slide GBB Pistol

Hi-CAPA 5.1 GBB Pistol

Hi-CAPA 4.3 Custom Dual Stainless GBB Pistol (£150)- Does this have a rail?

Hi-CAPA 5.1 Stainless Model GBB Pistol

Beretta M92FS Tactical Master GBB Pistol

Hi-CAPA eXtreme Full Auto .45 4.3 GBB Pistol (£145) - Does this have a rail?

Beretta M92F Silver Frame GBB Pistol

M9A1 GBB Pistol (£165)

H&K USP Electric AEP Pistol (£115)

Hi-CAPA 4.3 Desert Warrior GBB Pistol (£120)

Detonics .45 Silver Slide GBB Pistol

Strike Warrior GBB Pistol (£125) - Does this have a rail?

Glock 26 Concealed Carry GBB Pistol (No Picture)

Beretta M93R Electric AEP Pistol (£130)

Glock 18C Electric AEP Pistol (£120)

Detonics .45 Silver Frame GBB Pistol

Beretta Px4 GBB Pistol (£140) - Does this have a rail?

XDM-40 GBB Pistol £130)

Beretta M92F Military GBB Pistol

H&K MK23 Socom NBB Pistol (£120) - Not Blowback, Not sure what a LAM Unit is.

Bio Hazard Samurai Edge Standard GBB Pistol

Sig Sauer P226 Railed Frame GBB Pistol (£125)

Hi-CAPA 4.3 GBB Pistol (£135) - Does this have a rail?

Hi-CAPA 5.1 Match Custom GBB Pistol (£170) - Does this have a rail?

FN Five-seveN Black GBB Pistol (£125)

Glock 17 Foliage Green Custom GBB Pistol (£145)

Glock 17 Flat Dark Earth Custom GBB Pistol (£145)

Night Warrior GBB Pistol (£130)

Sig Sauer P226 E2 GBB Pistol (£130)

Samurai Edge A1 Jill Valentine Model GBB Pistol (£220)

I realise some of you might laugh at the thoroughness of my desire to save £75, I want to buy 1 sidearm period.

Tbh in some way this is just for me, to stay organised, but surely of interest to others - Maybe once UKARA'd i'll update the thread title to include a Wolf Armouries criqitue.

EDIT:

sorry I thought it was additional cost related since you have to pay out for boots etc.....

I have no income, so I want to make as fewer gun purchases as possible.

 

[Sitting Duck]

I have answered this in this thread to avoid clogging up the brief Q&A thread

(especially the way I waffle on)

Thanks for the reply.

Im sorry, you're a little hard to understand: to an airsoft newbie. I apologise if this appears ungrateful, but I simply cannot understand:

What a ASG MK23 Socom has to do with TM guns, whether the adapter you mention was include or purchased separately, where I would find the review you are referring to. Also your last line, I have no idea. (also what is ccw - counter clockwise?)

Russel11 posted this TM

http://www.wolfarmou...id=29PTLTMSCM23

This is possibly one of the best CQB guns ever.......

Now the ASG one is a cheap copy of it - and it is even cheaper if you are ukara'd from TWG

or a cheap already 2-toned one is available at OnlyyBBGuns for non-ukara peeps

review here: http://www.airsoft-forums.co.uk/index.php/topic/23771-asg-mk23-socom/#entry193483

CCW - yes Counter ClockWise, Sp00n said the silencer was also a barrel extension that took it over 350 when fitted

but coz he wanted it to be quiet but under 350fps he went about looking to fit a conventional plain silencer...

Then he discovered the pistol thread was not usual 14mm ccw thread but 16mm ccw

But he located an adapter & fitted a normal silencer staying under 350 so all happy ever after

What I thought is that instead of fitting a normal silencer like Sp00n did to the ASG mk23

you could fit a tracer/silencer unit on there if you so wish and in effect get your gas pistol with tracer

(think the tracer/silencer would be about £30 & £45 pistol (with discount delivered) or nearly half that at TWG once ukara'd)

The ASG seems to be a good copy of TM and uses same mags or vice versa

plus the cheapo HFC Stti SRC "seem" to be the same gun as ASG MK23 Socom

so in effect the ultra cheap one uses same TM compatible mags too

No worries if you really want to spend more though - nothing wrong with that

but was merely pointing you don't have to spend that much especially when you are just starting out

Though you say money is not a massive problem - but to some people they have a more limited budget

Plus there is always a chance some people may decide playing toy soldiers with toy guns is not really for them

 

[Sacarathe]

I have answered this in this thread to avoid clogging up the brief Q&A thread

(especially the way I waffle on)

No worries if you really want to spend more though - nothing wrong with that

but was merely pointing you don't have to spend that much especially when you are just starting out

Though you say money is not a massive problem - but to some people they have a more limited budget

Plus there is always a chance some people may decide playing toy soldiers with toy guns is not really for them

Thanks for not taking offence

Well, its being trapped in WA's hire purchase and living £3 from bunker 51, i'll laugh if I go there today and they say they've stopped it ^^

Indeed there is always that chance, but I think £200 to try something I wanted to do years go but could not for medical and geographical reasons is worth it.

I did not know a tracer was available so cheaply. Certainly not getting one upfront though.

I have just noticed that some of the GBB pistols without rails have a slide for fitting rails, but it's a little hard for me to spot it. Hopefully after visiting some airsoft stores this week I will have some first hand observations of the pistols.

I'm perfectly happy buying a [lightweight] plastic GBB as a first gun only concern is the cost of the mags.

I am hopeful that I can choose one which will take a 50rd mag. Then I can run with 1 <30 rd, a mag reloader, a 50rd, and two "other" spares.

 

[Sitting Duck]

I'm no expert on - well anything but deffo not on higher end gas blowback

dunno how big the mags are for some guns - best ask around

I only know the crazy 100 round mag for the lower 200fps cyma's that take the 030 glock mags

cm030, cm122 & cm123 AEP's - but only hit 200 - 220fps

where as the gas ones hit 300 to 350ish on green gas & co2 often is a bit too powerful to use at sites

(often a fresh co2 bulb hits 450-500+ for a little while then say 390-425 until bulbs starts to deplete)

Always check the price and availability of spare mags on any pistol though

no point buying a lovely gun if the mags cost a bomb or hard to get hold of imho

my GC-105 was a CO2 one but luckily a few pistols have different type mags available that work in it

(GG-105 & GC105 well it is same gun just comes with Green Gas or Co2 magazine in box)

plus they are so cheap to buy them mags it is no real biggy if a mag leaks

or if gun leaks - well just chuck it or keep for spare parts - not gonna bother strip & try to repair it at that price

£150 pistol - that is different story mind

No worries & no offense taken - my post are hard even for me to understand & I'm the one who type that crap in first place

 

[Sacarathe]

[delete]

 

[Sitting Duck]

get adapter 16 to 14ccw adpter (ask sp00n for more details if needed)

then these might do the job:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Night-GLOW-Illuminator-BB-Tracer-for-Airsoft-/281487934765?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4189fd052d


http://www.tinywind.com/auto-tracer-silencer-round-type-14mm-p-11224.html

http://www.tinywind.com/dragon-fluorescent-full-auto-tracer-illuminator-unit-14mm-coyote-brown-p-13202.html