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Comfort levels in CQB
- Thread starter MAX DICKER
- Start date
A bit off-topic, but... an interesting point about Assault (not weighing in on Tackles scenario by the way - I'm sure most of us have done angry things in the heat of the moment) that isn't so well known:
You don't have to physically touch someone for it to count as assault.
As per police guidelines:
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Assault is when a person makes you fear that immediate violence will be used against you, or when they do use violence against you.
Assault could be anything from shaking a fist or running a finger across a throat.
No force needs to be applied in order for it to be an assault.
Battery is the application of unlawful force. This could be anything from a push or slap, to serious violence.
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https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/advice/threats,-assault-and-hate-crime/assault/
I remember learning this a few years ago and being quite taken back by it. I'd always assumed assault was beating someone up!
Perhaps one law I've never forgotten!
You don't have to physically touch someone for it to count as assault.
As per police guidelines:
------------------------------------------------
Assault is when a person makes you fear that immediate violence will be used against you, or when they do use violence against you.
Assault could be anything from shaking a fist or running a finger across a throat.
No force needs to be applied in order for it to be an assault.
Battery is the application of unlawful force. This could be anything from a push or slap, to serious violence.
------------------------------------------------
https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/advice/threats,-assault-and-hate-crime/assault/
I remember learning this a few years ago and being quite taken back by it. I'd always assumed assault was beating someone up!
Perhaps one law I've never forgotten!
You are just not grabbing them the right way.
For me it's simple to say you should never put hands on another player. I can understand however people don't always think clearly when in pain/shock but it shouldn't of happened and I would of expected at least a day ban to show people it's not tolerated.
One of the examples I particularly remembered from law on the distinction and combination of the two offences assault and battery was when battery could technically take place without an assault
..... and also the murder case resting on ‘Reasonable’ involving a chapati pan
Physical violence and manhandling should not be occurring in the games where we shoot each other for pleasure.
There is no justification for it, and the case in question just reinforces my opinion against particular types of eye protection.
Its very easy to forget or just be totally unaware, becoming complacent about the added risks of non standard games and unusual venues.
Rules also need to be understood, there is a reason behind every rule set - some are to aid gameplay and the customer getting what they are paying for, some due to the law, insurance (including risk assessment mitigation’s) and some have an absolute safety implication
- Oct 7, 2017
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- 5,375
So technically, if we attend a site that doesn't ask us to sign a disclaimer, it could be said that we all assault each other every time we play.
obviously getting a charge of assault, in most of the variations that have been mentioned, including physical contact that DOESN'T result in any actual harm, to stand up in court is another matter, any half decent brief would quickly get it thrown out.
Anyway, this is yesterday's fish & chip paper when I was public enemy number one, today I'm back to being the big cuddly teddybear ?you all know & love ?.
Back on topic ?
Yeah we've done this to death now, handshakes all round.
Edit : I've read this again, and I just want to make it clear that this is back on topic, not a dig. CQB is not comfortable!
Ultimately, if you don't like a bit of pain on the weekends (wink wink nudge nudge) then don't play CQB.
It's more likely to hurt than woodland, and there's always gonna be someone who can't control their trigger finger making you look like you've got chickenpox.
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Rogerborg
Supporters
- Aug 22, 2017
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That's assault occasioning actual bodily harm. What you've incriminated yourself with is (common) assault by beating.
Don't take my word for it, have a read: https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/offences-against-person-incorporating-charging-standard
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Sorry but this has been bugging me.
Rugby, you get suprised tackled or whatever and react how? Im sure grabbing the neck of the guy would be at minimum a card and sin bin if not off the pitch for the game. Im sure professionally it would be a ban spanning a few weeks. Ice hockey... well they break out into fisticuffs there frequently and im no expert... but im sure you would be sent off for grabbing a neck.... boxing.... a neck punch could kill... and grabbing is as far as im aware (if impossible with the gloves) causes a reset... im not sure on terminology is not a sport i follow
What im getting at here is how is this justification? Surely with all this experience in contact sports, being jumped at by a twitchy kid with poor trigger disipline close up wouldnt illicit such a reaction.. if your initial reaction with toy soldiers is to grab someone in a generally vulnerable area, then how the hell did you last half an hour in any of those actual contact sports...
although you say its fine, you knew the owner blah blah. Im sure the kid probably wouldnt want to return given that you grabbed him AND got away with it. A sound swearing at would surely have sufficed to let him know your displeasure, possibly followed up by a promise to return fire if it happens again.
secondly im sure a few bystanders would have been shocked that the owners let you get away with it. I wonder how many thought twice on returning considering they let that slide. Because if a regular can get physical with someone and get away with it, what else are they fine with?
The only physical altercation i have seen on an airsoft site saw the play stopped and the guy that swung first kicked off and banned.
I have to say I have been grabbed years ago. The bloke who did it was a known see you next Tuesday. And it was a MilSim in copehill down. I have restrained myself a lot not to respond but I now feel compelled to. I appreciate the high stress situation I do but to react as stated is quite frankly grounds for prosecution. I’m afraid mucca you over reacted. Big time. And had a police complaint been filed I suspect you would have been in a world of hurt. I suspect you were infact the lucky man because now and in hindsight he should, could and would have pressed charges.
The background to that incident and I again reinforce was years ago was that I was told to infiltrate. I did. And he reacted. I did not fire I just undermined. And I got throat rashed. Ps I was 20 at the time. He was I asses mid to late 30s.
You my friend made a mistake. Anger got the best of you. I understand that. But and here it is. You committed assault. Had I witnessed it I would have reported you and I would without compunction have said the exact same in court.
Sorry but that is my take of having been appointed to stand in the dock and provide many character statements to defend people accused of the same.
The background to that incident and I again reinforce was years ago was that I was told to infiltrate. I did. And he reacted. I did not fire I just undermined. And I got throat rashed. Ps I was 20 at the time. He was I asses mid to late 30s.
You my friend made a mistake. Anger got the best of you. I understand that. But and here it is. You committed assault. Had I witnessed it I would have reported you and I would without compunction have said the exact same in court.
Sorry but that is my take of having been appointed to stand in the dock and provide many character statements to defend people accused of the same.
Skara
Members
- Oct 20, 2017
- 3,231
- 1,240
I'm just leaving this here.
I remember an episode from many years ago, it was a shit day in terms of weather so instead of going to our own field, we went to this "cqb field" inside this abandoned 1860 era fort, in which every Sunday you can find someone playing and makes for a good backup when your plans go to hell..
Long story short, two guys were exchanging shots, one decided he's had enough, rushed, poked the other in the cheek with his barrel and fired a long-ish burst.
This poor guy had 2 bbs stuck halfway through the cheek and was bleeding as if he took a real 5.56 round.
These 2 started a fight and we promptly separated them and both got kicked out of the field. I never saw them again.
Violence should stay out of anything related to airsoft. Period.
Yours was an isolated episode and didn't escalate further, which is after all a good thing.
I just hope it stays an isolated thing.
As for full auto in cqb, I think it's stupid and dangerous. Prefiring a corner is instead a smart thing to do, given you actually know how to properly corner and you're sure there's someone there.
I remember an episode from many years ago, it was a shit day in terms of weather so instead of going to our own field, we went to this "cqb field" inside this abandoned 1860 era fort, in which every Sunday you can find someone playing and makes for a good backup when your plans go to hell..
Long story short, two guys were exchanging shots, one decided he's had enough, rushed, poked the other in the cheek with his barrel and fired a long-ish burst.
This poor guy had 2 bbs stuck halfway through the cheek and was bleeding as if he took a real 5.56 round.
These 2 started a fight and we promptly separated them and both got kicked out of the field. I never saw them again.
Violence should stay out of anything related to airsoft. Period.
Yours was an isolated episode and didn't escalate further, which is after all a good thing.
I just hope it stays an isolated thing.
As for full auto in cqb, I think it's stupid and dangerous. Prefiring a corner is instead a smart thing to do, given you actually know how to properly corner and you're sure there's someone there.
Rogerborg
Supporters
- Aug 22, 2017
- 9,190
- 6,048
Red?
Blue?
Dead player?
Marshal?
It's blind fire by another name.
I know why people do it, but I'd prefer if they didn't.
Yes this is the behaviour I can't stand. But it's a slippery slope. Where does it become acceptable. I don't think any of us would intentionally open fire on someone with their eye pro knocked off but if you are not looking before you shoot how do you know that when he rounded that corner his glasses didn't slip off his nose etc?
In the depot when you can see through the slats upstairs I will prefire a window or corner for them walking in to view the bbs. Maybe I am wrong for doing that too but feels like I know what I am shooting at.
Pre firing ruins airsoft tbh. I'm sure people do it in speedsoft all the time, but I'm sure most people prefer airsoft over say, paintball, because it's slightly more realistic.
No point using any sort of coordinated tactics if Mr DSG comes sprinting around the corner spamming his trigger, having already put 329 BBs into the wall before he finally sets his sights on you.
No point using any sort of coordinated tactics if Mr DSG comes sprinting around the corner spamming his trigger, having already put 329 BBs into the wall before he finally sets his sights on you.
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Skara
Members
- Oct 20, 2017
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Them 329 BBs will prevent you from peaking and potentially having a shot on him.
Not a bad tactic at all.
Also, where's the realism in firing an ultralight round pellet that gets its trajectory affected by a fart?
Leave this milsim shit out please.
1 - That requires no skill, other than being able to move your fingers quickly, and no degree of accuracy. As others have pointed out, by the time you've seen what's the other side of the solid object you've already put several BBs towards it.
2 - In CQB wind and other environmental factors are much less pronounced.
3 - I've never done a milsim in my life (not yet anyway), but that trigger spam nonsense is what speedsoft was made for, surely?
- Oct 7, 2017
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Lol, I don't know what you expect me to say, I reacted in a manner that most of you feel was inappropriate, & many of you seem intent on painting me as a "bad tempered psycho who needs serious help", which isn't the case in this incident, nor is it applicable in any of the contact sports I've been involved with, nor my time in the military, quite the opposite actually.
As for prosecution etc, we'll never know will we, I could rattle on about having no criminal record, & actually having twice received commendations for taking on violent criminals who later got time, but some of you have clearly made up your mind about me, having apparently never lost your tempers in high stress situations ?.
i can only think that some of you need to get a life, as 15 seconds of mine is apparently worth discussing more than the actual thread topic.
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Rogerborg
Supporters
- Aug 22, 2017
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Oh, it is effective, no argument there.
It's also a dick move, for reasons covered above: blind/blinding fire, friendly fire, overkill on dead players, hitting marshals, or shooting Tackle in the face at which point he'll reach down your throat and rip your viscera out (I think, I stopped reading a while back).
