A little help required with my Guarder Glock frame

[emilianoksa]

It's the Gen 2 one which I have fitted to a TM Glock 22. I just swapped over the internals from the frame and will be running the TM upper stock.

 

Managed to get it done, but there were three problems: 

1. The takedown lever isn't a good fit. I is loose and goes up on one side and down on the other. Will a Guarder takedown lever fix this?

2 The slide went on to the frame but not as well as I would have liked. I removed everything and sanded down the top of the frame to get it straight. Problem fixed.

3 The mag will not stay in position. I put it in, and it immediately slips out. It could be that the mag release spring isn't strong enough, but it seems fine to me. It works well enough on the TM frame. It seems to me that the whole internal dimension of the Guarder grip is too big. I suppose the only way to deal with that is to pad it will a couple of thin strips of plastic.

4 Unrelated to the Guarder frame I notice that my TM recoil spring is unlike any I have seen before. The coils are not all of the same diameter, which makes the spring look kinked. Is this normal?

5 And finally the most serious problem; when I press the trigger with a gassed up mag in, holding the mag so it doesn't drop out, the slide goes back only partially and all the gas escapes from the mag. I assume this is because the mag is not making proper contact with the bbu in the slide.

 

But what do I know?.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Some of these problems might be related. Apart from them, the gun functions normally. If I put an empty mag in and rack the slide it locks back. If I use the sling shot method to release the slide it works. I love the Gen 2 frame and would like to make it work. Trigger and hammer seem to work as one would expect. If necessary I will keep the gun as a display piece. Bit of a waste though, so I am hoping I can fix it.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by emilianoksa

[Guest]

It sounds like it’s not assembled correctly, BUT they are never a direct fit.

 

Which mag release have you used? The G22 mag release is different to a standard release with the metal insert.

 

Take down lever only goes one way, (ramp facing forward) and it needs to sit on its spring correctly, is the spring correctly installed?

 

I wouldn’t have sanded the front rail, I’ve built dozens of TM based Glocks and have never needed to.

 

Recoil spring sounds odd, got a picture?

 

In fact, some up close hi definition pics would be very handy (of everything)

 

 

[emilianoksa]

Thanks for the reply.

 

I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

[emilianoksa]

I replaced all the internals in the TM frame and the gun functioned. So I don't believe I didn't assemble the gun correctly.

 

I then put them back into the Guarder frame. Same problems re loose takedown lever (though it works) and mag not connecting but falling out of grip.

 

However I made an interesting  discovery; I put a WE Glock mag in the gun and it worked. I then put the TM mag into a WE      Glock and that worked too. So it would appear the Guarder does not like the Glock 22 mag with two cut outs and a metal reinforcement. It just doesn't seem to fit.

 

So, if necessary I will change the gas routers on a couple of my WE mags. Does Laylax make one that fits the TM bbu?

Edited August 10, 2022 by emilianoksa

[Cr0-Magnon]

Which serial/safety plate are you using? (ie the TM or one which came with the frame)

[emilianoksa]

The one which came with the Guarder frame.

 

The spring below the takedown lever doesn't have the strength to keep the lever up. Do you think using the TM base plate/sliding safety might be the way to go? Or is there another way to go. At the moment the lever is just loose in its two slots.

 

I have been trying to download some better pictures but I always have trouble reformatting them from my wife's iphone. 

The one of the recoil spring does not really show how much it is kinked. So I'll try to download another.

Edited August 10, 2022 by emilianoksa

[Cr0-Magnon]

I always experience this issue when using a Guarder serial plate with a TM front rail. From memory (I've got one on order) the underside shape of the Guarder version makes up for the gap caused by the smaller serial tag, effectively shimming everything and applying more pressure to the little arm bit under the takedown lever. I know it's not ideal but you may well find that the takedown lever issue is fixed by using the TM serial plate.

[emilianoksa]

Here, I hope is a better picture of the recoil spring.

 

This is the way it came in a brand new Glock 22 which I purchased two weeks ago. It seems to work but clearly doesn't lie well on the guide rod.

 

Is it really supposed to look like this?

 

How do I get the spring off the guide rod? Which end comes off? And does it pull off or screw off. And why is there a flat indentation on the rod itself?

 

Would appreciate an explanation.

 

And thanks by the way, for your help.

 

[Cr0-Magnon]

That's just the design.

 

You can see the same on Firesupports website:

https://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/guarder-enhanced-recoil-spring-guide-for-marui-glk-g17g18c

[emilianoksa]

1 hour ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

I always experience this issue when using a Guarder serial plate with a TM front rail. From memory (I've got one on order) the underside shape of the Guarder version makes up for the gap caused by the smaller serial tag, effectively shimming everything and applying more pressure to the little arm bit under the takedown lever. I know it's not ideal but you may well find that the takedown lever issue is fixed by using the TM serial plate.

Thanks again.

 

I am using the Guarder serial plate without the tag plate accessory in a Guarder Gen 2 frame. I thought that if they supplied the tag without the attachment, it wouldn't need it in a Guarder frame.

 

But I am coming to the conclusion that the tag plate is the problem. There isn't enough material below the take down spring to tension it and push the lever up.

Thanks again mate.

 

Wondering if I should have purchased a new serial tag set from Fire Support but then I saw this warning.

https://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/guarder-series-notag-set-for-marui-g23-early-type

 

So the Gen 2 frame takes the serial plate only, and not the other attachment which is for Gen 3 frames.

 

When I get round to opening it up again, I will try to shim under the chassis to put some pressure on the spring.

Edited August 10, 2022 by emilianoksa

[Cr0-Magnon]

Yeah they state you shouldn't use the black plastic bit with the gen.2 frame but even with that you can see that the total size is still a lot smaller than the TM serial plate and obviously doesn't extend under front rail like the TM does. If you're up to the task, shimming underneath that little V shaped bit (which applies pressure to the safety lever), may be your best bet. I can never be bothered with this and either make do with the TM serial or purchase the Guarder rail.

[emilianoksa]

Thanks again.

 

I doubt it would be possible to put the TM serial plate in the Gen 2 frame. It tapers quite a bit.

 

The Gen 2 has always been my favourite Glock and Guarder is the only manufacturer that makes a Gen 2 frame. I'm not keen on pistols with rails for lights. I prefer the cleaner lines of those without, which is a nuisance since so many come with rails these days. I don't skirmish with pistols so I don't really have a need for a rail.

[Guest]

Glad you’re getting there. Can you bend the take down bar spring open more to put more pressure on the take down bar?

 

 

[emilianoksa]

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

I'll give that a try.

 

Do you happen to know if a Nine Ball gas router for a TM Glock mag will fit a WE Glock mag.

 

Is it really worth changing the router from WE to TM type for a pistol that will only occasionally be used for plinking in the garden?

 

 

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, emilianoksa said:

s it really worth changing the router from WE to TM type for a pistol that will only occasionally be used for plinking in the garden?

Nope, TM gas routers don’t fit WE nozzles very well, but WE gas routers fit TM nozzles just fine.

 

You can fit Nineballs if you want, but I wouldn’t bother

[Cr0-Magnon]

How did you get on with this?

 

You inspired me to swap the frame on my Gen.3 (Which also has a Guarder slide and barrel). I'm glad I did, this is definitely the more the version I remember in movies from my childhood.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Cr0-Magnon

[frontsight]

22 hours ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

 

Is that one of those porcelain slides I keep hearing about?

[Cr0-Magnon]

19 minutes ago, frontsight said:

Is that one of those porcelain slides I keep hearing about?

 

Edit: Just Googled it! Your memory is obviously far superior to mine, as I watched Die Hard 2 not so long ago.

 

Although, I'd need to file-off the 1 from seventeen for it to be accurate!

Edited August 16, 2022 by Cr0-Magnon

[frontsight]

Jokes aside, Glocks without light rails are the shit. Really nice looking one you got there!

[Cr0-Magnon]

5 minutes ago, frontsight said:

Jokes aside, Glocks without light rails are the shit. Really nice looking one you got there!

 

Variety is the spice of life n' all that but yeah love a classic movie gun. This slide is made to take RS sights, so now I'm thinking of options to finish it off nicely.

[emilianoksa]

On 15/08/2022 at 22:36, Cr0-Magnon said:

How did you get on with this?

 

You inspired me to swap the frame on my Gen.3 (Which also has a Guarder slide and barrel). I'm glad I did, this is definitely the more the version I remember in movies from my childhood.

 

 

 

I managed to get it up and running.

 

The only remaining problem is that it won't hold a TM Glock 22 mag. Even if I hold the mag and push it up tight when shooting, it just blows out all the gas.

 

So I have decided to use it with a couple of my WE mags with 144a. I wonder if the original TM Glock 17 gen 3 mags without the metal reinforced mag release would work. However they aren't easy to find these days.

 

Irony is that I can use my TM Glock 22 in my WE Glocks, though as rocketdogbert says, they don't provide the best seal. Might just have to buy another TM Glock and keep it stock. Then I will have two mags for it.

 

Your gun looks great by the way. Love Gen 2 frames.

[Cr0-Magnon]

Glad you've got it sorted.

 

That's strange about the mags, I always assumed the only difference between the G17 & G22 mags were markings and baseplate.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

Glad you've got it sorted.

 

That's strange about the mags, I always assumed the only difference between the G17 & G22 mags were markings and baseplate.

WE and TM mags aren’t the same, very similar though. 
 

TM G17 and G22 are as you said, except G22 are ambidextrous

[Cr0-Magnon]

33 minutes ago, rocketdogbert said:

G22 are ambidextrous

 

I'm pretty sure when I recently purchased a TM G17 Gen.3, it came with an ambi mag. Seems like all the ones they're making are.

 

Either way, I'm not sure how it's causing the issue with dropping out.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Cr0-Magnon

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

Either way, I'm not sure how it's causing the issue with dropping out

I don’t think it is lol