Just-cos

[Draculaw]

Browsing a retailer I came across this as a purported valid defence: https://www.just-cos.co.uk/about-us/

 

Anyone have any experience or know how widely it’s (a) accepted and (b) recognised as a defence? I’m struggling to reconcile just cosplay with the re-enactment defence, although I’m no criminal lawyer.

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

Quite simply - it's a load of bollocks!

 

Cosplay isn't a valid defense under the VCRA.

[Draculaw]

That’s where I was thinking. Seems a long stretch to attempt to pull cosplay into the re-enactment defence, but wasn’t sure if I was completely missing something there.

[typefish]

25 minutes ago, DrAlexanderTobacco said:

Quite simply - it's a load of bollocks!

 

Cosplay isn't a valid defense under the VCRA.

 

Agreed.

 

It's not uncommon knowledge as to why Just-Cos is being promoted...

[Rogerborg]

13 hours ago, DrAlexanderTobacco said:

Quite simply - it's a load of bollocks!

 

Cosplay isn't a valid defense under the VCRA.

 

/thread, basically.  It's a wheeze run by one retailer to bump the price of their RIFs by £20 when they're selling them without a defence.  I would be surprised if there was anything like an actual meaningful indemnity policy behind it.  I mean, what third party liabilities are you likely to incur as a cosplayer anyway?

 

A few of us have pondered whether the retailer should be ratted out for doing this, assuming that you could find a copper who cares.  I'm 50:50 on whether it's better to avoid drawing attention to it in the hope that they're not selling too many RIFs to wrong 'uns, which might draw attention anyway.

 

Perhaps OP will be the superhero and/or villain that we need to find out.

[Draculaw]

Definitely not - not risking a career over a scheme I’m not 100% comfortable with. That being said, I’m almost tempted to pay £20 just to find out who is underwriting this scheme and what they’re insuring against. Mental anguish caused by a scary cosplay?

[Tommikka]

31 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

.....

I would be surprised if there was anything like an actual meaningful indemnity policy behind it.  I mean, what third party liabilities are you likely to incur as a cosplayer anyway?

.....

A performing / ‘professional’ cosplayer, or groups / clubs would have PLI requirements ..... among other things such as the combined cost of their costumes & props 

 

But of course .... they wouldn’t need the ‘CosPlay’ defence as they have the Theatrical defence .......  and would need real PLI, that for example gave you policy cover details in advance, rather than just:

 

 

“Public Liability insurance in their right as a re-enactor to wear and carry costume articles that may prove alarming or ‘scary’ to third parties who may not understand our purpose.”

 

“It’s £20 per year ......   and you probably won’t need to use it”

 

That sounds to me that they are insuring people in case they scare the public - so what’s the claim and payout for just scaring ?  ...... and wouldn’t that be to do with not being a dick in public with a RIF which is likely to be an offence in itself.  Is an underwriter going to payout for the consequences of unlawful acts?

 

 

 

 

In paintball we have the UKPSF, they have offered membership with and without insurance.

Originally UKPSF Membership fees went entirely to the insurance premiums.

I generally opted for the option without insurance, not because it was cheaper, but because the fee would all go into the UKPSFs funding and as a government employee (of a number of decades .... meaning I’m on the best employment terms) my injury / time off / loss of earnings cover far exceeds any policy that can be bought.  It doesn’t cover me for any PLI, but I do have other sports related insurance, and ideally I (personally as a player) won’t be putting myself in the circumstances of needing PLI

 

 

 

[Rogerborg]

42 minutes ago, Draculaw said:

not risking a career over a scheme I’m not 100% comfortable with

 

They're the ones risking their career by selling without a defence.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

PLI requirements ..... among other things such as the combined cost of their costumes & props

 

Public liability insurance indemnifies you against being sued for damages by someone else due to your actions or negligence.

 

It doesn't cover loss of your own equipment, or (as implied by their comedy site) for any legal costs or other losses that you might incur from someone else's actions, e.g. having your RIFs confiscated or being prosecuted over "the right to carry imitation weaponry that could otherwise be mistaken as real or mistakenly reported as an offensive weapon."

 

I too am interested in what the alleged policy professes to cover, but not enough to throw away £20 on it.

 

Either way, it's not one of the allowed defences to VCRA S36.

[Tommikka]

27 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

 

Public liability insurance indemnifies you against being sued for damages by someone else due to your actions or negligence.

 

It doesn't cover loss of your own equipment, 

 

 

Mine wasn’t worded well there ..... it was meant to say that anyone needing PLI, such as a group would be interested in cover for a variety of requirements such as PLI and loss or damage of equipment etc

 

..... and any such policy would most likely start at double the price of JustCos, and for any group etc with real cover wouldn’t be a small

annual fee —- £20 might stretch to cover 3 months 

[Rogerborg]

Ah, gotchya.  Yes, we are in agreement.  On the face of it, it's not even suitable for cosplayers, let alone as a VCRA defence.

[Tommikka]

I was at a CosPlay event this weekend, (Frome Comic Con) ..... I’ve checked out their rules , based on their rules, and the rules for another that I may be going to later in September (Coastal Comic Con Bournemouth)

 

I hadn’t checked the rules of any previous Comic Cons that I have been to.

 

Surprisingly JustCos insurance and the trader who provides that are useless to Cosplayers as they are not permitted to have BB guns that are capable of being fired or even to have props that have been made out of BB guns.

 

They do require anything to have orange tips.

(Use of the American orange tip BB rule/law in the UK does generally annoy me, back in the day an orange tip meant things were incapable of firing, and those toys that could fire anything did not have an orange tip .... however the CosPlay rules I’ve read do require non shooting guns, so are compliant with the old UK orange to rule)

 

There was a Lara Croft, who had blue pistols without orange tips.  I didn’t check if they were Airsoft pistols or proper blue dummy pistols

 

There was a guy as a Men In Black costume in Saturday, with a space gun with no bright markings, but on Sunday he was in full US Army rig with an orange tipped gun .... (I assumed it to be an airsoft gun) but it was a modified water gun.

 

(Another trader was selling crossbows, (what a rebel!), and when we arrived on Friday for setting up there was a drone being setup to fly around the car park 

 

There were a few Harley Quinn’s, with and without bats.  They may have been sponge / foam bats but there was a kid one with a suitably sized wooden baseball bat.

 

I was my usual rebel of bringing my own alcohol, but this time instead of sat in a gazebo we were in one of the main corridors using tables and we were drinking cans in front of every passer by.  We would have been out in the central square but the gazebos were not safe in this weekends weather*.

Sunday had thunder & lightning, but the very very frightening were a pair of Pennywise clowns - I protected one of my ladies (just the once) from their passing 

 

A nice long post about something anyone with a braincell already knows - JustCos insurance is a load of bollocks, and any RIF sales in relation to it are in contravention of the VCRA, but these rules also show that RIFs aren’t meant to be in CosPlay, whereas the rule of thumb appears to be “don’t be a dick”

 

The weather and change of plans also meant that the van wasn’t empty and I therefore had nowhere to sleep .... other than the front seats , so I ended up in the attic room of an antiques shop in the centre of Frome with a miles walk first thing on Saturday morning!

 

 

 

https://www.fromecomiccon.com/faqs

 

https://www.coastalcomiccon.com/cosplay-guidelines/

 

 

BANNED AND PROHIBITED ITEMS: Note that the following items are banned from Frome Comic Con: 

• Metal blade weapons or Articles whether sharp or blunt (swords, axes, kunai, ice skates, and knives). 

• Guns, Rifles or artillery (including Airsoft guns, BB guns, Paintball guns or props built from parts of these items).

• Functional projectile weapons (strung bows or crossbows) 

• Laser pointers, Vuvuzelas, Silly string, and Drones (even if part of a costume). 

• Other prohibited items (glass bottles and vessels, alcohol, and E-cigarettes). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Coastal Comic Con is intended as a family-friendly community-based event and as such, certain cosplays may be denied entry. These include:

•  

2. Please be aware that while Coastal Comic Con encourages all our attendees to cosplay appropriate for a family event, some cosplay costumes may be intimidating for younger children and people of a nervous disposition and we advise appropriate adult, carer discretion and/or supervision.

 

4. A number of items are forbidden at Coastal Comic Con. These include:

• Any metal edged object such as knives, axes or swords.
• Guns/Bows that shoot projectiles or could be enabled to shoot a projectile – eg. air guns, Airsoft weapons, crossbows, or replicas of actual guns, also including real weapons.  Weapons must not have any firing mechanisms or be able to fire any projectiles including water or other liquids.
• Hard bats, paddles or clubs e.g. wooden or metal baseball bats, golf clubs.
•  

5. All realistic looking prop weapons must have a visible orange tip to them.

6. Please ensure that all your cosplay weapons are kept concealed or covered and not visible to the general public when outside of the venue. Please also show the same courtesy of covering props or keeping props out of sight when travelling home after the event. We ask all attendees to avoid any activity that could cause public alarm.

Coastal Comic Con reserve the right to deny entry, withdraw access, or cancel tickets without refund to anyone deemed to be breaking these rules. Moreover, Coastal Comic Con and security for the event and venue reserve the right to reject any weapon or prop if deemed likely to cause a nuisance.

 

 

 

 

[Rogerborg]

10 hours ago, Tommikka said:

Surprisingly JustCos insurance and the trader who provides that are useless to Cosplayers

 

 

Thanks for that, it confirms both what we think about Just-"Cos", and what I think about people who's pp's get hard while writing rules that they have no intention of enforcing.