S&T Vss vintorez AEG Not firing

[Compulsive Reload]

Saturday night my vss was shooting fine.

 

Tried using it Sunday and the gun fires but the bbs literally spit out the barrel then drop instantly. Putting my hand over the barrel and no air comes out, sounds horrible when it fires, like metal hitting metal.

 

Opened the hop up to see if there was any issues, bucking is ripped, this maybe the issue? Can't tell if the nub needs replacing or not.

 

Or is it anything to do with air compression in the gearbox?

 

Thanks for any help in advance.

 

Edit: stock specs incase it helps

 

BRAND FORCECORE INDUSTRIES

Electrical operation.
Mode of firing safe - single shot - burst.
Weight: 2500gr.
Length: 955mm.
With inner barrel from 428mm.
Adjustable Hop Up.
Reinforced version 3 metal gear box.
Diameter of bearings in 7mm.
Polymer magazine from 150bb.
Body and metal cover with stock in ABS.

 

[Lozart]

If the bucking is ripped, you'll definitely have problems!

[Compulsive Reload]

4 minutes ago, Lozart said:

If the bucking is ripped, you'll definitely have problems!

So replacing this should make it fire again? I'm new to all this so really don't know what does what, had to follow a YouTube video to disassemble it.

 

If so, any recommendations on bucking rubber I should get?

 

Cheers.

[Lozart]

6 minutes ago, Compulsive Reload said:

So replacing this should make it fire again? I'm new to all this so really don't know what does what, had to follow a YouTube video to disassemble it.

 

If so, any recommendations on bucking rubber I should get?

 

Cheers.

 

Assuming nothing else has been damaged then yes. I would suggest either a Prometheus purple rubber https://proairsoftsupplies.co.uk/en/internal-parts/hop-ups/prometheus-air-seal-hop-bucking-purple or a Maple Leaf 60 degree with a Maple Leaf Omega Nub. https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/hopups-rubbers/maple-leaf-macaron-60-aeg

[Compulsive Reload]

13 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

Assuming nothing else has been damaged then yes. I would suggest either a Prometheus purple rubber https://proairsoftsupplies.co.uk/en/internal-parts/hop-ups/prometheus-air-seal-hop-bucking-purple or a Maple Leaf 60 degree with a Maple Leaf Omega Nub. https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/hopups-rubbers/maple-leaf-macaron-60-aeg

Oh right thanks I'll have a look at that then, I did notice there was a little clear plastic clip that has cracked and keeps falling out of place (added and image of one) there's a little brass ring aswell that slides down the barrel. 

[Lozart]

That's the hop up unit C clip. It keeps the hop up unit locked into place on the barrel. You'll need a new one of those! http://www.patrolbase.co.uk/airsoft/retro-arms-m4-hop-up-unit-c-clip-red.htm#.WvnAEojt6XI

[Compulsive Reload]

Balls

8 minutes ago, Lozart said:

That's the hop up unit C clip. It keeps the hop up unit locked into place on the barrel. You'll need a new one of those! http://www.patrolbase.co.uk/airsoft/retro-arms-m4-hop-up-unit-c-clip-red.htm#.WvnAEojt6XI

Damn! Need allsorts, going to assume I need some form of oil to clean the inside and outside of barrel also as the outside looked dirty.

 

Sorry for all the questions and I really appreciate the help! 

[Compulsive Reload]

 

On Mon May 14 2018 at 5:58 PM, Lozart said:

That's the hop up unit C clip. It keeps the hop up unit locked into place on the barrel. You'll need a new one of those! http://www.patrolbase.co.uk/airsoft/retro-arms-m4-hop-up-unit-c-clip-red.htm#.WvnAEojt6X

It seems that the gearbox may be the issue as there is no air coming out of the air nozzle. Any ideas? 

 

Made a youtubeYouTube video showing the sound it makes.

 

https://youtu.be/NAOJCh3LWiI

[Lozart]

If there's NO air coming out then the piston isn't working. EIther the seal has gone or the piston head itself may have come adrift. Stop firing it, take it apart or take it to someone that knows what they're doing.

[Compulsive Reload]

 

32 minutes ago, Lozart said:

If there's NO air coming out then the piston isn't working. EIther the seal has gone or the piston head itself may have come adrift. Stop firing it, take it apart or take it to someone that knows what they're doing.

 

Took it apart and black ring has snapped on piston and the end cap won't screw in properly, maybe needs a nut. 

[Lozart]

5 minutes ago, Compulsive Reload said:

 

 

Took it apart and black ring has snapped on piston and the end cap won't screw in properly, maybe needs a nut. 

 

Just get a new piston head. That one's shite.

 

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/pistons-heads/ra-piston-head-double-oring-pom

 

If the "nut" part of your piston head has gone walkabout you bets try and find it, it'll make short work of your gearbox otherwise!

Unless of course your piston is one of those spectacularly cheap ones where the piston head literally screws on in which case you'll want one of these too: https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/pistons/ra-14-5-tooth-piston

[Compulsive Reload]

Rubber that was on it doesn't seem to fit properly also, the white end bit gap seems too large for rubber.

3 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

Just get a new piston head. That one's shite.

 

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/pistons-heads/ra-piston-head-double-oring-pom

Will do thanks for that, hopefully it works after that, will the piston head come with a nut too tighten it to the other side, also is the piston I have alright? Cheers.

[Lozart]

1 minute ago, Compulsive Reload said:

Rubber that was on it doesn't seem to fit properly also, the white end bit gap seems too large for rubber.

 

The O ring isn't supposed to be tight on the piston head, but tight inside the bore of the cylinder.

5 minutes ago, Lozart said:

If the "nut" part of your piston head has gone walkabout you bets try and find it, it'll make short work of your gearbox otherwise!

Unless of course your piston is one of those spectacularly cheap ones where the piston head literally screws on in which case you'll want one of these too: https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/pistons/ra-14-5-tooth-piston

 

2 minutes ago, Compulsive Reload said:

Rubber that was on it doesn't seem to fit properly also, the white end bit gap seems too large for rubber.

Will do thanks for that, hopefully it works after that, will the piston head come with a nut too tighten it to the other side, also is the piston I have alright? Cheers.

 

As above - if the "nut" part of your piston head has gone walkabout you bets try and find it, it'll make short work of your gearbox otherwise!

Unless of course your piston is one of those spectacularly cheap ones where the piston head literally screws on in which case you'll want one of these too: https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/pistons/ra-14-5-tooth-piston

[Compulsive Reload]

14 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

The O ring isn't supposed to be tight on the piston head, but tight inside the bore of the cylinder.

 

 

As above - if the "nut" part of your piston head has gone walkabout you bets try and find it, it'll make short work of your gearbox otherwise!

Unless of course your piston is one of those spectacularly cheap ones where the piston head literally screws on in which case you'll want one of these too: https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/pistons/ra-14-5-tooth-piston

Think I have found the nut for it, it fits the screw so going to assume its the one, i'll prob get the new head aslong as it fits, should i stick with this piston or replace both pieces you think? 

 

Cheers.

[Iceni]

4 hours ago, Compulsive Reload said:

Think I have found the nut for it, it fits the screw so going to assume its the one

It's a nut that fits but it's the wrong kind of nut.

You would be better served by a nylon locking nut. You can get a box of assorted sizes from several Uk hardware type stores and off the net.

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p60090

The plastic part on those nuts stops them undoing. You could also use thread lock as well. The very last thing you want is the nut coming loose, finding its way into something spinning and stripping the teeth off the gears!

For the regular heads I always blue threadlock them into place. Again it can be picked up anywhere that sells to the automotive trade, Halfords, Machine mart, Eurocarparts, GSF, Ect Ect it's very easy to get hold of, and there is no excuse to not use it.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/051110843/?da=1&TC=GS-051110843&gclid=Cj0KCQjwre_XBRDVARIsAPf7zZjA79ISHvk_-2zRo4DzWvgd0eTdc78mnwN0LRLIDD4INzOjYLpg8K0aAqqdEALw_wcB
 

[Compulsive Reload]

4 hours ago, Lozart said:

6 minutes ago, Iceni said:

It's a nut that fits but it's the wrong kind of nut.

You would be better served by a nylon locking nut. You can get a box of assorted sizes from several Uk hardware type stores and off the net.

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p60090

The plastic part on those nuts stops them undoing. You could also use thread lock as well. The very last thing you want is the nut coming loose, finding its way into something spinning and stripping the teeth off the gears!

For the regular heads I always blue threadlock them into place. Again it can be picked up anywhere that sells to the automotive trade, Halfords, Machine mart, Eurocarparts, GSF, Ect Ect it's very easy to get hold of, and there is no excuse to not use it.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/051110843/?da=1&TC=GS-051110843&gclid=Cj0KCQjwre_XBRDVARIsAPf7zZjA79ISHvk_-2zRo4DzWvgd0eTdc78mnwN0LRLIDD4INzOjYLpg8K0aAqqdEALw_wcB
 

 

Cheers will have a look.

 

Got the gun working but it doesn't fire like before think it's an issue with the selector plate as I'm not sure how to fully aline it as the vss isn't a well known model.

 

Fires on and off on semi, like every second trigger pull fires,and you have to squeeze harder,  bbs coming out randomly.

 

Sometimes semi completely cuts off.

 

Auto works, put a full mag in and it fired around 20 bbs before it stopped, auto seems to push the selector plate to eithe semi or safe sometimes.

 

After shooting most of the mag, tried auto for about 5 seconds and 1 or 2 bbs flew out at around 2-3 seconds in, some would roll out of barrel.

 

Any ideas? 

[Iceni]

Vss uses a version 3 gearbox and is very similar to an AK both in layout and selector plate function. Have a look for AK guides and you should get the information you need.


The single/semi issues could be the dolly isn't resetting correctly, or the trigger contacts are a little too far apart. There is loads of information if you search for the same problem with AK's.

Get the gearbox sorted first before you look at the BB issue. Because I think you have an airleak but where that is could be anyone's guess.

Start with a compression test on the cylinder with and without the air nozzle, and work from there. You might find you have a few O-rings to replace. They can be ordered in bulk if you need to provided you have the size of them.

 

[Compulsive Reload]

1 hour ago, Iceni said:

Vss uses a version 3 gearbox and is very similar to an AK both in layout and selector plate function. Have a look for AK guides and you should get the information you need.


The single/semi issues could be the dolly isn't resetting correctly, or the trigger contacts are a little too far apart. There is loads of information if you search for the same problem with AK's.

Get the gearbox sorted first before you look at the BB issue. Because I think you have an airleak but where that is could be anyone's guess.

Start with a compression test on the cylinder with and without the air nozzle, and work from there. You might find you have a few O-rings to replace. They can be ordered in bulk if you need to provided you have the size of them.

 

Hi, 

Had a look at the ak gearboxs and they are similar but different to the vss, positioning and different pieces for the selector, I'll take it apart again tomorrow and take photos.

 

As for the air, the nozzle has air pressure now, should there be an o ring in the nozzle? Because there isn't. 

 

[Iceni]

1 hour ago, Compulsive Reload said:

should there be an o ring in the nozzle

Standard ones generally don't have an o-ring, Upgraded ones might.

You can measure the nozzle and pick one that is the same length if you can't find VSS specific ones if you think the nozzle is at fault. AK2M4 have a selection of cheap upgrade nozzles and provided you can get the correct length and it fits the hop there will be no other problems.

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/air-nozzles

Looking at that picture:

The anti reversal latch isn't in correctly and it's very light on gear grease. (chances are you have already corrected this).

The slides for the piston could do with some grease as well. And that shell has a slight casting deformity so it's not straight. Just run the piston on it and make sure the piston runs without any binding.

The inner barrel is also 430mm so you might want to see if you can grab a non ported cylinder to see if it improves the guns consistency.

The trigger dolly could do with a very light smear of grease on the plastic ways. And check the gap of the contacts if it looks too wide just give them a little poke to close the gap a little (not enough to pinch the bridging contact tho).

Did you remember to put the spring in the cut off lever when you tested it?

Evike have a VSS gearbox with the selector in place, It might be a decent image reference for the selector rebuild.

https://www.evike.com/products/61951/

[Compulsive Reload]

3 minutes ago, Iceni said:

Standard ones generally don't have an o-ring, Upgraded ones might.

You can measure the nozzle and pick one that is the same length if you can't find VSS specific ones if you think the nozzle is at fault. AK2M4 have a selection of cheap upgrade nozzles and provided you can get the correct length and it fits the hop there will be no other problems.

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/air-nozzles

Looking at that picture:

The anti reversal latch isn't in correctly and it's very light on gear grease. (chances are you have already corrected this).

The slides for the piston could do with some grease as well. And that shell has a slight casting deformity so it's not straight. Just run the piston on it and make sure the piston runs without any binding.

The inner barrel is also 430mm so you might want to see if you can grab a non ported cylinder to see if it improves the guns consistency.

The trigger dolly could do with a very light smear of grease on the plastic ways. And check the gap of the contacts if it looks too wide just give them a little poke to close the gap a little (not enough to pinch the bridging contact tho).

 

Hi

 

Haven't regreased it as I don't have anything to grease it with, which grease should I use? 

 

Anti reversal latch? 

 

Most of what you said is alien to me but I'll try and find out more on said things, only new to airsoft you see and its the first time I have disassembled an rif.

 

Cheers.

[Iceni]

The anti reversal latch is the bit I've highlighted in pink.

It should follow the direction in blue, and catch the other side of the bevel gear. The bevel gear has a pattern cut in it so the anti reversal latch will only allow the gearbox to rotate in one direction.You also have it in upside down I think, the flat side should be on the face of the bevel gear, The curved part should be down under that gear. They require 3 hands to fit.




For grease you can use pretty much anything that lubricates and doesn't fly all over the place. There are numerous cheap options but I tend to stick with some cheap Ebay greases that come in handy little pots.

I use this stuff on pistons/air nozzles.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SYNTHETIC-SILICONE-GREASE-TEFLON-50g-TIN-2HT-PLASTIC-SAFE-LOW-FRICTION-/391399159157?hash=item5b21353575

and this stuff on gears.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Molly-MOS1-Grease-Airgun-Servicing-50-GRAM-TIN-/173321340281?hash=item285ac1c579

It's nice and cheap, and works really well for airsoft gearboxes. You don't need a lot for it to work just a small dab or two enough to get into the gears and protect them.

[Compulsive Reload]

12 hours ago, Iceni said:

Standard ones generally don't have an o-ring, Upgraded ones might.

You can measure the nozzle and pick one that is the same length if you can't find VSS specific ones if you think the nozzle is at fault. AK2M4 have a selection of cheap upgrade nozzles and provided you can get the correct length and it fits the hop there will be no other problems.

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/air-nozzles

Looking at that picture:

The anti reversal latch isn't in correctly and it's very light on gear grease. (chances are you have already corrected this).

The slides for the piston could do with some grease as well. And that shell has a slight casting deformity so it's not straight. Just run the piston on it and make sure the piston runs without any binding.

The inner barrel is also 430mm so you might want to see if you can grab a non ported cylinder to see if it improves the guns consistency.

The trigger dolly could do with a very light smear of grease on the plastic ways. And check the gap of the contacts if it looks too wide just give them a little poke to close the gap a little (not enough to pinch the bridging contact tho).

Did you remember to put the spring in the cut off lever when you tested it?

Evike have a VSS gearbox with the selector in place, It might be a decent image reference for the selector rebuild.

https://www.evike.com/products/61951/

 

11 hours ago, Iceni said:

The anti reversal latch is the bit I've highlighted in pink.

It should follow the direction in blue, and catch the other side of the bevel gear. The bevel gear has a pattern cut in it so the anti reversal latch will only allow the gearbox to rotate in one direction.You also have it in upside down I think, the flat side should be on the face of the bevel gear, The curved part should be down under that gear. They require 3 hands to fit.




For grease you can use pretty much anything that lubricates and doesn't fly all over the place. There are numerous cheap options but I tend to stick with some cheap Ebay greases that come in handy little pots.

I use this stuff on pistons/air nozzles.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SYNTHETIC-SILICONE-GREASE-TEFLON-50g-TIN-2HT-PLASTIC-SAFE-LOW-FRICTION-/391399159157?hash=item5b21353575

and this stuff on gears.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Molly-MOS1-Grease-Airgun-Servicing-50-GRAM-TIN-/173321340281?hash=item285ac1c579

It's nice and cheap, and works really well for airsoft gearboxes. You don't need a lot for it to work just a small dab or two enough to get into the gears and protect them.

Hello, 

 

Thanks for the info and the vss gearbox image helps as its the exact one.

 

Will get some of that grease.

 

Not sure what you mean in spring in cut off lever? 

 

I'll do that with the latch, is the bevel gear above the flat one?

 

[Compulsive Reload]

19 hours ago, Iceni said:

The anti reversal latch is the bit I've highlighted in pink.

It should follow the direction in blue, and catch the other side of the bevel gear. The bevel gear has a pattern cut in it so the anti reversal latch will only allow the gearbox to rotate in one direction.You also have it in upside down I think, the flat side should be on the face of the bevel gear, The curved part should be down under that gear. They require 3 hands to fit.




For grease you can use pretty much anything that lubricates and doesn't fly all over the place. There are numerous cheap options but I tend to stick with some cheap Ebay greases that come in handy little pots.

I use this stuff on pistons/air nozzles.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SYNTHETIC-SILICONE-GREASE-TEFLON-50g-TIN-2HT-PLASTIC-SAFE-LOW-FRICTION-/391399159157?hash=item5b21353575

and this stuff on gears.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Molly-MOS1-Grease-Airgun-Servicing-50-GRAM-TIN-/173321340281?hash=item285ac1c579

It's nice and cheap, and works really well for airsoft gearboxes. You don't need a lot for it to work just a small dab or two enough to get into the gears and protect them.

Well just checked the gear while trying to address the reversal latch issues and a tooth has broken off a gear. Other gears won't seem to turn all together fully either.

 

 

[Iceni]

You'll need a new gearset then.

The standard ratio is 18:1 and V3 boxes need the standard gears.

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/gears/zci-gear-set-18-1

or these

 

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/gears/shs-ra-standard-gear-set

I'd probably go with the standard £10 gearset to keep costs down.

The anti reversal latch goes in looking like this.

Hopefully you can see with the image.




The flat side is onto the bevel gear, and the spring holds it to the gear all the time.


Chances are when you ran it with the AR latch in the wrong position it caught the tooth on the spur gear and removed that tooth. You have to have a good look for the missing tooth to make sure it's not hiding in the gearbox ready to break something else in the future.


The gears not turning well could be that old grease, or that missing tooth. You have to fully strip it to inspect. And it would be a good idea to remove as much of that grease as possible and drop some light oil into the bearings to free them up. It doesn't need to be fancy oil 3 in 1 will do (you can also use it to clean the grease off) then re grease with the ebay stuff when that arrives.

You need to remove the main spring, piston and tappet plate to see the gears moving. All of those components will add resistance or stop the gears.


The spring I mentioned for the selector plate/cut off lever is located on the back side of  the gearbox.


 

[Compulsive Reload]

17 minutes ago, Iceni said:

You'll need a new gearset then.

The standard ratio is 18:1 and V3 boxes need the standard gears.

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/gears/zci-gear-set-18-1

or these

 

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/gears/shs-ra-standard-gear-set

I'd probably go with the standard £10 gearset to keep costs down.

The anti reversal latch goes in looking like this.

Hopefully you can see with the image.




The flat side is onto the bevel gear, and the spring holds it to the gear all the time.


Chances are when you ran it with the AR latch in the wrong position it caught the tooth on the spur gear and removed that tooth. You have to have a good look for the missing tooth to make sure it's not hiding in the gearbox ready to break something else in the future.


The gears not turning well could be that old grease, or that missing tooth. You have to fully strip it to inspect. And it would be a good idea to remove as much of that grease as possible and drop some light oil into the bearings to free them up. It doesn't need to be fancy oil 3 in 1 will do (you can also use it to clean the grease off) then re grease with the ebay stuff when that arrives.

You need to remove the main spring, piston and tappet plate to see the gears moving. All of those components will add resistance or stop the gears.


The spring I mentioned for the selector plate/cut off lever is located on the back side of  the gearbox.


 

Damn new gearset, I found the little piece before noticing the gear and removed it. 

 

Ah I see, yes that spring on the back is in there.

 

After correcting the latch, and fixing selector plate the gun now fires okay, although getting it on auto was a pain.

 

Going to leave it alone now until I get the parts, thanks for the help. I'll update when I can.