Please delete

[Fordy]

.

[Sitting Duck]

check polarity at motor

if wires are reversed the motor will attempt to cycle in reverse but Anti Reversal Latch will stop this

(or should do)

 

if you have disturbed anything or if the gearbox exploded when you opened it then that might be an issue

 

if you give out some more info it might help too

[Samurai]

Yep, polarity as SD said.

[Fordy]

16 hours ago, Sitting Duck said:

Thanks for the advice, the wires are not reversed as I double checked and the gearbox did not explode when I opened it, there is just a small clicking noise whenever I pull the trigger 

 

[Samurai]

Unscrew the bottom of the grip, move the motor a bit outwards, but keep it still connected, and pull the trigger. Does the motor spin?

If it does not then the click on the trigger pull might be the trigger trolley (the electrical contact's moving part) jumping off the trigger.

[Sitting Duck]

52 minutes ago, Fordy said:

Thanks for the advice, the wires are not reversed as I double checked and the gearbox did not explode when I opened it, there is just a small clicking noise whenever I pull the trigger 

 

As said - more info coz I didn't manage to pick the winning lottery numbers

 

gun/gearbox including make

old spring & new spring - if you are trying to pull a m140 on stock motor you got more chance with a scratchcard

pictures

 

you could have a trigger/trolley switch issue the sector could be parked in the trigger's "dead zone"

(I presume you tried it on both semi and auto)

 

We want to help if we can but we need some info as we are not always good at psychic teching

 

[Samurai]

3 minutes ago, Sitting Duck said:

 

you could have a trigger/trolley switch issue the sector could be parked in the trigger's "dead zone"

(I presume you tried it on both semi and auto)

 

Yeah, that. I always forget that it's not trivial to less experienced tinkerers and I forget to give it as an advice. There are quite a few things that come automatically after fixing that many gearboxes. I remember the first time I thought I need at least two more hands to put the top of the gb on with the spring in. After a while the fingers know where to go. (That's what she said.)

 

So yep, switching to full auto to move it from the dead zone is a very sound tip.

[Sitting Duck]

Soz to OP being sarcastic but info does help

could be trigger prongs/copper strip

could be trigger slipping off trolley like Samurai said

could be a few things....

But give us some more info of stuff first and perhaps a pic as it says a 1,000 words

(easy to spot - you have the swivelly up nut onto top of the doobery watyamacallit instead of underneath)

 

I've seen posts develop into 10 posts towards this or that

Then the OP says something & it is like

Well I wish you had said that at the beginning coz that is something totally different to what you first described

 

Gun - gearbox - so we know what trigger v2 is one piece, v3 is two piece and bit more fiddly

(did this pop off & you replaced it - if so was it replaced back correctly - most likely but just asking)

Hence a pic or at least more info

As Samurai said - you get an idea where to set the sector gear that the trigger or Cut Off Lever is down etc

A pic will soon allow us to say where to set the swivelly up nut etc....

[Fordy]

On 01/05/2017 at 0:51 PM, Sitting Duck said:

 

Sorry for being a bit vague, I understand your frustration  

The gun is an SRC SR416 with a v3 gearbox, I have no knowledge about the old spring apart from the fps it shoots as it came stock with the gun and I can't find any information about it, the new spring is a M120 400fps, I have tried the advice of pulling motor out a bit to see if it still spins and it does, the trigger did also not pop out when I opened the gearbox. I did not yet try on fire it on full auto as I heard from a few people the spring can end up compressed and therefore loose its power ( probably a stupid thing to do I know but I'm new to this) as for the pictures I will send them when I get back from work, which will probably be around 9 o'clock, to help you get a better understanding, thanks for the help because I know neither of you have to give me a hand  

 

Alos, I think I have a rough idea, but could you explain more about the triggers "dead zone" (probably another stupid question but again I'm new  ) again thanks for the help both of you are trying to give me, even if I'm being very vague with my answers so far, and if I still am just say, thanks 

[Fordy]

On 01/05/2017 at 0:41 PM, Samurai said:

 

So yep, switching to full auto to move it from the dead zone is a very sound tip.

Thanks for the advice, like I said I know you don't have to help me and I understand I am a noob, sorry to be a ball ache to help. 

 

Would you you be able to explain more about the triggers dead zone, do I just simply switch the gun to full auto and hold the trigger for a few seconds? And as the gearbox is currently together, should I try this tip now before I take the gearbox apart again to take pictures? Again thanks for the advice  

[Samurai]

Yes, exactly that. When you put the gearbox together you need to set the spur gear to a certain position where it doesn't pull the piston, but the tappet plate can fit. And the deadzone is within that. On single shot the cutoff lever is pushed by the sector gear and in turn it pushes the switch trolley up, breaking the circuit. If the gears stop at this place, the trigger pushes the trolley into the half-raised cutoff, and it pushes it off before reaching the contacts. Switching to full auto raises the cutoff out of the way, so the trolley can reach the contats.

[Sitting Duck]

your gun is a v2 gearbox btw:

 

 

the Cut Off Lever & firing function is best demonstrated in this video

from about 0:30 onward you see what is going inside on semi popping the trolley etc....

 

 

the dead zone is when the COL is part raised still and instead of slipping under or over the switch trolley it hits the pointed tip <=

in between where the words auto appear - this is the dead zone....

 

 

what you need to aim for is the cam on sector nearly touching the tappet plate on assembly:

 

 

BUT - Even in this position it might still have the COL slightly raised a tiny bit

close up gearbox - quick test nozzle & trigger spring operate - but on AUTO

no motor or anything - just test all bits seem to function properly

(think we all forgot the tappet spring once or twice in a rush)

 

Test trigger operates on AUTO - selector plate back towards the rear of box raising COL

OK - try to gently test the semi with plate in middle position....

if it feels odd, rotate the bevel gear with a thin screwdriver at bottom of box

there will be little tension atm and can only go one way - if AR Latch fitted correctly

as you might just start see the nozzle retract then you should for certain be able to test semi

 

What ever you do - DO NOT FORCE TRIGGER if it is in the dead zone

Trigger seems okay - shove it back in the gun and carry on putting it back together

[Fordy]

3 hours ago, Samurai said:

 

3 hours ago, Sitting Duck said:

 

 

Thanks for the information, it looks like I might be finishing work late tonight and so will have to try these tomorrow evening as that's when I'm next free, I will tell you what happens, cheers  

[Fordy]

On 02/05/2017 at 6:35 PM, Samurai said:

 

On 01/05/2017 at 0:51 PM, Sitting Duck said:

 

Does this look right to you guys? If so I'll put back together and try out your advice, just thaught I'd  check. 

 

[Hangtight]

It looks like the anti reversal latch is on the wrong side of the bevel gear and is jamming the spur gear. It should be pointing down towards the motor.

[Sitting Duck]

yup - you could rotate the sector gear a little more counter-clockwise

so that it touches the tappet plate fin

The COL is raised still probably starting to lower - which is what I explained

(you might need to rotate the bevel a little to start drawing the tappet plate back for COL to drop completely after box is closed)

 

Hope you got the shims to go on those gears in the correct place

Thank goodness they are better gears in there than the cheap nasty SRC sportsline boxes with toffee gears

 

With the COL raised like it is in pic, you should test fire on auto first if you don't rotate the gears a smidge

It will be fine I think, I feel you may have got confused in the dead zone of trigger - NEVER FORCE IT

Hopefully shims go back ok, bit of grease might help

 

Damn that AoE is screaming at me

[Sitting Duck]

14 minutes ago, Hangtight said:

It looks like the anti reversal latch is on the wrong side of the bevel gear and is jamming the spur gear. It should be pointing down towards the motor.

 

Good shout sir, I was looking at sector & COL position

It is hard to tell from pic,just saved & rotated it

 

OP check the gears can't turn the other way....

The bevel should be able to rotate counter clockwise but not clockwise

 

The AR latch should be a fiddly bastid to fit at first with the spring trying to pushing the bevel over

fit the bevel, hold it back and plop the bevel into place

it may try to jump out - a magnet underneath helps keep AR in place

but often after a while you get the hang of it all fitting together and not always need a magnet

 

crap video - ffs wtf is this music crap but more info....

 

 

ahhh wtf if you get into trouble use the knife wrench....

 

 

soz but searching youtube I still love scrubs

[Fordy]

37 minutes ago, Sitting Duck said:

 

49 minutes ago, Hangtight said:

 

Thanks for the help  

The way you described to fit the AR latch and the way it was shown in the video was the way I had it installed, it may have been hard to tell from the picture, I have also moved the sector gear so that it is touching the fin of the tapper plate.

This is how I had the AR latch fitted before if it is right

[Sitting Duck]

Gotta say - nice pictures, really helps

yup AR Latch looks good to me

(gears look dry as a bone though)

[Hangtight]

It was difficult to tell from the first picture, but I thought it was a good idea to eliminate the obvious!

[Fordy]

3 minutes ago, Sitting Duck said:

Cheers  

Yeah ik, i shimmed them a couple of times but as I kept on having to take the gearbox apart over and over again I thaught I would save the trouble and once I get the thing working again I would take it apart and give it a proper shim, (probably stupid of me ik) hopefully I won't have to re-open it with this problem again tho  

[Hangtight]

It's not something as simple as the first sector tooth hanging up on the piston due to the poor angle of engagement is it?

[Sitting Duck]

Ahh - the problem with shimming you must be careful with the shims on top of bevel

 

This is a critical starting point as the height of bevel and the motor height needs to be as close to perfection as possible

 

The other two gears go roughly like this with a bit more tolerance.....

 

Spur - usually a thin shim about 0.15mm to 0.20mm below & whatever above is required

 

Sector - usually the aprox same thickness of shims split between the two sides above/below

 

Adjust these accordingly to spin test, lift sector whilst watching spur shaft doesn't move (swirly pattern on spur)

 

But bevel is critical and together with motor height meshing will be a very important factor in how she runs

Too low - too high on bevel/pinion will cause inefficiency and possible more friction/stress slow running & increased amps

 

Need to be careful messing with shimming, it is not that easy to suss out quickly but really easy to screw up if unsure

[Fordy]

9 minutes ago, Hangtight said:

 

I have no idea as I have little experience with the angle of engagement, could you tell me more as to where it should be?  

[Sitting Duck]

9 minutes ago, Hangtight said:

It's not something as simple as the first sector tooth hanging up on the piston due to the poor angle of engagement is it?

 

It's SRC - they don't even bother to remove 2nd tooth

like most slapped together stuff - it is amazing the pickup doesn't just snap clean off