UKARA Confusion

[DX115FALCON]

After reading the UKARA website's FAQs about the system, a few questions have been raised.

 

1) The FAQs state that you can recieve a RIF if it is "a gift from an eligible purchaser to a minor". Does this mean that if one of my friends has got his UKARA, I can give them enough money to buy the RIF for me?

 

2) painting & taping over coloured parts of an IF to make it appear as a RIF. The website is rather vague about this and does not specify of this is allowed or not. I have seen many players with taped over & repainted guns at some sites, and am not sure if I am able to do this legaly or not.

 

3) buying weapons from overseas. I am not sure if I am able to purchase guns from the USA (with orange tips) even if I am not UKARA registered?

 

*finally*

4) can I switch out two-toned parts (stocks, handguards ect) for RIF parts legaly?

 

Cheers

[ScoobySnacks]

After reading the UKARA website's FAQs about the system, a few questions have been raised.

 

1) The FAQs state that you can recieve a RIF if it is "a gift from an eligible purchaser to a minor". Does this mean that if one of my friends has got his UKARA, I can give them enough money to buy the RIF for me?

No. Not in any case.

 

If you are over 18, then handing over anything of any value in exchange for the RIF is classed as a sale, whether it be cash, goods or services/labour. The person doing the selling would be committing an offence.

 

(Always remember that UKARA is only a retailers database and confers no legal rights or defense. It only covers the retailers by proving they have taken reasonable steps to assure themselves that you offer them a defense against prosecution under the VCRA.)

 

If you are a regular skirmisher at a site that is properly organised and has proper insurance in place then you probably have a defense to offer the seller against prosecution for the offence. UKARA is just handy way of proving the defense, and is no better or worse than any other way of proving the defense. If however you are not a regular skirmisher then the person selling you the RIF, whether UKARA registered or not, is liable to prosecution for selling a RIF.

 

Added to that, as you mentioned a minor, it is illegal to SELL (again, all the same meanings as above) any kind of imitation firearm to a minor, be it an IF or a RIF. It is perfectly legal to give a minor a RIF, but that relies on very generous friends or parents who are skirmishers.

2) painting & taping over coloured parts of an IF to make it appear as a RIF. The website is rather vague about this and does not specify of this is allowed or not. I have seen many players with taped over & repainted guns at some sites, and am not sure if I am able to do this legaly or not.

UKARA is quiet on this point because it's not really relevant to it. UKARA is there purely to provide the retailers with a defense against prosecution for selling a RIF. If you are on the UKARA database then you can show a defense against prosecution for manufacturing a RIF, be it by painting over the bright paint, or covering it with tape.

 

People talk all sorts of nonsense about putting tape on before a skirmish, then taking it off again afterwards. If you are playing on a site that is properly organised and holds proper public liability insurance (if you're paying to play then it should have, but ask them, they should be more than happy to show you their certificates) then you can show a defense against prosecution for manufacturing a RIF, so tape/paint away. If it is not a properly organised skirmish site, and you don't play at any that are, then you will not be able to prove the defense and so manufacturing a RIF will leave you liable to prosecution, whether you only have the tape on at the place you play or whatever.

 

In basic language, you play at a proper site, then you can show a defense, paint/tape away to your hearts content. You don't play at a proper site then don't!

3) buying weapons from overseas. I am not sure if I am able to purchase guns from the USA (with orange tips) even if I am not UKARA registered?

 

 

 

An orange tip does not meet the requirements to change a RIF into an IF. To be classed as an IF, the gun must be at least 51% of a solid block of one of the bright colours set out in the VCRA (basically orange, green, blue, red) or at least 50% clear plastic. Therefore your black gun with a red bit on the muzzle is a RIF, and you are liable to prosecution and seizure of the gun unless you can prove a defense.

 

Customs MIGHT accept a UKARA membership as a defense (but they might not, they're a fickle bunch). They might also accept some kind of letter from your regular site stating that you play there regularly and that they have proper insurance. UKARA is easy for customs to check as you can get the sender to put a note on the packing and/or paperwork stating you are registered on the UKARA database, and stating your UKARA number.

 

(Disclaimer, this is only my opinion, especially the next paragraph, as a lay person interpreting the legislation as written. I do not endorse any action using these opinions, nor do I suggest anyone acts on my advice alone. I offer them purely as MY OWN PERSONAL understanding and I will not be held liable if someone uses my opinion and ends up being prosecuted, or has property seized! Take the time to read the law yourself, and to understand it. If you are unsure consult someone properly qualified in the law!)

 

An interesting point here. Although it is illegal for a person under the age of 18 to buy an IF or RIF within the UK, my reading of the VCRA suggests that a person under that age, who can show a defense against prosecution for importing by way of being a regular skirmisher, can legally import a RIF or IF. I'm pretty sure that this is a loophole rather than intentional, poorly drafted legislation basically, but nevertheless it seems to be true.

 

 

 

*finally*

4) can I switch out two-toned parts (stocks, handguards ect) for RIF parts legaly?

 

Cheers

Only if you have a defense, the rules are the same as for overpainting or taping. Basically anything that reduces the % area of bright colour to below 51% is manufacturing, whether you change it back or not, and leaves you liable to prosecution unless you can prove a defense.

[Silent7Sniper7]

Beat me to it, what he said ^^^^^^^^

[DX115FALCON]

No. Not in any case.

Thanks so much. You have been extremely helpful to me. Looks like I'm going to have to wait for another year and a half until I can get me an RIF.

[Richard65]

SkoobySnacks - does the defence apply to those under 18 as far as taping/painting is concerned?

[DX115FALCON]

SkoobySnacks - does the defence apply to those under 18 as far as taping/painting is concerned?

I believe not. I think, from reading the post, it emplies that you can recolour your old two toned weapons to appear as a RIF

 

 

 

Also, does anyone know the rules about purchasing rubber knifes if under 18?

[ScoobySnacks]

Richard.

 

If you are going to turn an IF into a RIF then you need a defense against prosecution. There is nothing in the legislation that suggests any age limit for such a defense to be valid, nor does it state specifically that a person under the age of 18 cannot manufacture a RIF as long as they have a defense. Of course, they would need to be given the gun in the first place as they cannot legally purchase any kind of imitation. As an IF, however, anybody over the age of 18 can buy it and gift it to them, as long as they don't pay for it in any way.

 

It is therefore my belief, based on the general common law approach that anything that is not specifically prohibited is allowed, that there is nothing to stop an under 18 availing themselves of the defense against prosecution for manufacturing a RIF.

 

DX, "recolouring your old two tones to appear as a RIF" is classed as manufacturing, and you need a defense so to do. As above, I see no mention in the legislation regarding a minimum age limit for such a defense to be valid.

 

As for rubber knives, they are just bits of rubber. I know of no law that would prevent anyone, of any age, from buying one. If you are caught carrying one around town then you'll probably be charged with carrying an offensive weapon, as they can be used to threaten, but I know of no reason why a minor cannot buy and own a rubber knife. Again, as always, I welcome anyone who can tell me otherwise.

[DX115FALCON]

DX, "recolouring your old two tones to appear as a RIF" is classed as manufacturing, and you need a defense so to do. As above, I see no mention in the legislation regarding a minimum age limit for such a defense to be valid.

 

As for rubber knives, they are just bits of rubber. I know of no law that would prevent anyone, of any age, from buying one. If you are caught carrying one around town then you'll probably be charged with carrying an offensive weapon, as they can be used to threaten, but I know of no reason why a minor cannot buy and own a rubber knife. Again, as always, I welcome anyone who can tell me otherwise.

Excwllent. LWA are selling badass rubber Tomohawks online. Totally need to get me one!

 

ScoobySnacks, you have been just about the most helpful person in the world in this thread! Thank you so much

[ScoobySnacks]

DX, check that the tomahawks are LAPR tomahawks. Most sites will specify that any knife used in play must be capable of bending through 180 degrees, so that the point touches the handle. Not sure how they'd react to a tomahawk. I guess if the handle and blade are both rubber then it would probably be ok.

[DX115FALCON]

DX, check that the tomahawks are LAPR tomahawks. Most sites will specify that any knife used in play must be capable of bending through 180 degrees, so that the point touches the handle. Not sure how they'd react to a tomahawk. I guess if the handle and blade are both rubber then it would probably be ok.

http://www.landwarriorairsoft.com/acatalog/Cold-Steel-Laredo-Bowie-Training-Knife-BA_92BKPTH.html#.UZe7Yn3TVoM

 

I know that it says out of stock, but I saw them in store a few days ago

[ScoobySnacks]

Yeah, not going to be allowed on most sites. Although it's made of polypropylene, it's heavy weight and could cause some damage if wielded over-enthusiastically. Look for LARP axes if you really want one!

 

http://www.calimacil.co.uk/weapons/axes/sachem-the-throwing-tomahawk.html

 

That would probably be more suitable.

[DX115FALCON]

Yeah, not going to be allowed on most sites. Although it's made of polypropylene, it's heavy weight and could cause some damage if wielded over-enthusiastically. Look for LARP axes if you really want one!

 

http://www.calimacil.co.uk/weapons/axes/sachem-the-throwing-tomahawk.html

 

That would probably be more suitable.

Been going through that site you linked me to. Some badass stuff on here. Any idea if any of the following would be legal?

 

http://www.calimacil.co.uk/weapons/brick.html

 

http://www.calimacil.co.uk/weapons/tensho-color.html (with rope attached of course: if your going to get one, at least LOOK like Scorpion)

[ScoobySnacks]

What each site will allow is down to the individual head marshall/manager on the day really, but if it is hard and likely to damage someone if you get over-enthusiastic then it's more than likely to be a no. If you couldn't hurt someone with it, short of shoving it up their a##e, then you'll probably be ok.

 

Not sure whether they'd allow a "brick kill", but most sites have a bit of a sense of humour over these things so talk to them and see!

 

I'd say the Tensho would be absolutely fine. It's soft foam, and bends in half, which is the test I've heard at a few sites. There's no shaft in it so there really is no way you could injure someone.

 

As before, that's only my opinion, you'd need to check with the individual site before using either in game.

[DX115FALCON]

Reviving this topic to ask an important question: would white guns count as two-tone?

 

For example, I was on Redwolf and found a nice g&g m4 ( http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/AEG_AEP_G_G_G_G_Chione_16_Electric_Blowback_White.htm)but am not quite sure if this is legal for non-registered players.

[Mack]

Reviving this topic to ask an important question: would white guns count as two-tone?

 

For example, I was on Redwolf and found a nice g&g m4 ( http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/AEG_AEP_G_G_G_G_Chione_16_Electric_Blowback_White.htm)but am not quite sure if this is legal for non-registered players.

No

These are the approved two tone colours

• transparent
• bright red
• bright orange
• bright blue
• bright yellow
• bright green
• bright pink
• bright purple

[Zombie Man SVS]

I was told today that if you are know by a retailer as a regular air softer you don't need a Ukara to by black guns? Is this correct?

[Mack]

you dont need to be known by a retailer, and you dont need UKARA either You just need to be able to provide a defence agains prosecution, ukara being one of many.

[Zak Da Mack]

I was told today that if you are know by a retailer as a regular air softer you don't need a Ukara to by black guns? Is this correct?

That is an acceptable method of proving that you are a regular skirmisher. Some retailers may not accept it though

[Zombie Man SVS]

That is an acceptable method of proving that you are a regular skirmisher. Some retailers may not accept it though

Thanks. I wasent sure? I have to retailers that know me very well so I should be ok?

I'm still going to renew my Ukara though. Thanks for the advice!

[Longshot]

I only recently bothered to renew my UKARA after not having one for about two years. I bought something in the region of 12 RIFs in those two years. You do not need UKARA, but it may make things easier depending on where you are buying from.

[Zombie Man SVS]

I only recently bothered to renew my UKARA after not having one for about two years. I bought something in the region of 12 RIFs in those two years. You do not need UKARA, but it may make things easier depending on where you are buying from.

I am in the process of renewing my Ukara anyway! Just seems strange everyone banging on about Ukara when there are ways around it lol.

[Longshot]

UKARA is just there to make life easier (mainly for retailers) it's not a legal requirement and it's not essential.

[ScoobySnacks]

Longshot, I'd say it's entirely for retailers! (Being a retailers association).

 

If a retailer wants to make a sale, they can phone the site to find out if you are a regular. UKARA just means they don't need to do the leg work.

[Longshot]

Longshot, I'd say it's entirely for retailers! (Being a retailers association).

 

I'd say it was entirely designed for use by retailers, but that it is not used exclusively in this way since the actual association of members is less important than their database of players. I've checked the UKARA database for information on players in the past and I'm not a retailer. Many other non-retailers have done the same. It makes it easier for anyone to check that they have a defence to make a sale if they have access to the database.

[UIVenger]

So... how do you access the database if you're not a retailer?