Rolo Rolo Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Having done a fair bit of research online, I chose my weapon and am pretty satisfied with it. Time and time again on AF-UK I've read warnings about the budget "Pro" guns. But what happens if you DON'T research properly? Enter the BS(?) M901A from justbbguns.co.uk. The reason I'm posting this is because I think the website is quite misleading about the gun. Anyway, here's what I see.. In fairness to my friend who bought it, she has neither the spare cash to buy a better weapon nor the patience to save up for it. So £60 for an AEG with battery and charger and a V2 Metal gearbox, "just" like the one I paid £155 for, seemed like a bargain to her. Unboxing the M901A reveals it to be initially appealing. It's got a good weight to it (more of that later) and not being bothered about mil-sim at this point, the orange colour isn't unpleasant. The magazine is metal and has a winged allen key to wind the spring, as well as the usual thumbwheel underneath. The thumbwheel isn't particularly nice to use. It's a little stiff and the metal edges on the gap exposing the wheel are a little sharp IMO, so the key is the way to go. Fitting the slim battery and cover is a bit fiddly, but actually slightly less of a palaver than my ICS. Incidentally, the battery is rated at 8.4v but measures at 9.5v on my DVM. Unhelpfully, the charging advice is rudmentary, to say the least. Essentially it is "charge the battery until it gets warm, but stop before it catches fire". Brilliant(!) A phone call sorted out a rough charging time from the guys at justbbguns. In use, the claimed 12BB/s doesn't seem to be achieved. I'm guessing it's more like 5-8BB/s, I'll have to measure it. Certainly it's a damned site slowwer than my ICS M4. Until I can get the thing on a rig, I can't comment on it's accuracy. While we were having a play with the gun, we found there was a rattle coming from the stock. So we took the bottom of the stock off to reveal.... What's this? An extra battery perhaps.....? Erm, sadly not. It's about a pound of weight added to the gun to make you think you're getting value for money. Or maybe to "balance" the gun? The whole shooting match weighs just under 2kg. But without the ballast, the gun is a little less substantial at 1.5kg. Additionally, justbbguns claim "This NEW gun features a reinforced metal gearbox, which allows for it to give just a little bit more power while improving overall durability.". It then says "New high-strength polymer internals have been installed for maximum performance without compromising reliability". Looking behind the trigger I can see one of the polymer gears through clear plastic, so I'm not exactly how that fits in with the unit having a "reinforced metal gearbox". (I've tried uploading a picture of this, but cannot for some reason. I'll maybe try again in a subsequent post.). It's obvious that justbbguns are trying to big-up this gun to make it sound more impressive than it is. I found the added ballast particularly irritating, but it COULD be argued that it gives the gun a better feel. As a skirmish AEG, I really don't think this AEG would take much heavy use and the £60 would be better spent hiring or going towards buying better equipment. But as a fun toy, for £60 all in, it doesn't seem to be outrageously bad value for money. And if the gun fails, you can always throw the weight at the enemy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Richard65 Posted October 6, 2012 Supporters Share Posted October 6, 2012 On their website it shows this as reduced from £149.99 to £59.99. If the higher price was ever genuine (rather than just a temporary figure to allow a sale price) then it should be reasonable quality. I did a quick `google' and there are a couple of other sites with BB in their names selling similar (identical?) guns for £59.99 and they also say metal gearbox. One claimed incredible accuracy to 80m! If you really believe that the site description is misleading then why not contact Trading Standards and they will look into it. Also be interesting to hear how it stands up to a few skirmishes - might turn out ot be an OK buy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexb111 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Yeah Just bb guns arn't known for their quality and good products. Not for their service either. There's a fairly large topic on them in the places to buy section that pretty much mirrors what you've said. As for bigging up guns that's standard but the cheaper websites (or what I'd call bb gun websites) do it more than compared with airsoft websites. Ballast is standard for plastic guns as all the weight is in the front with metal barrels and stuff. Not 100% if there's such on metal guns but nothing unusual, even for a cheap website. Yeah the original price, I'd say that's a load of BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Rolo Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 On their website it shows this as reduced from £149.99 to £59.99. If the higher price was ever genuine (rather than just a temporary figure to allow a sale price) then it should be reasonable quality. I did a quick `google' and there are a couple of other sites with BB in their names selling similar (identical?) guns for £59.99 and they also say metal gearbox. One claimed incredible accuracy to 80m! If you really believe that the site description is misleading then why not contact Trading Standards and they will look into it. Also be interesting to hear how it stands up to a few skirmishes - might turn out ot be an OK buy! I had a look at taking the thing apart completely, but it's construction really doesn't invite it, so until it fails, I won't mess with it. I'm guessing they have been VERY careful with their wording and somewhere in the gearbox case is some metal which acts as reinforcement. They do clearly state that it has "polymer internals", so I think setting trading standards on them would be overkill. I really have no axe to grind with justbbguns, they've done everything they said they were going to do and my friend got everything they said she was buying. It's just that the gulf in quality between my friend's gun and mine is well worth the extra money IMO. (I know that's what everyone on the forums says anyway, but I thought it would be nice to have a case study. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Rolo Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 Yeah Just bb guns arn't known for their quality and good products. Not for their service either.There's a fairly large topic on them in the places to buy section that pretty much mirrors what you've said. As for bigging up guns that's standard but the cheaper websites (or what I'd call bb gun websites) do it more than compared with airsoft websites. Ballast is standard for plastic guns as all the weight is in the front with metal barrels and stuff. Not 100% if there's such on metal guns but nothing unusual, even for a cheap website. Yeah the original price, I'd say that's a load of BS The difference in the tone of the websites "serious" webites and the "Big Boys Toys" sites is remarkable. I have to admit I love watching the justbbguns video reviews they have with a lot of their guns. That guy's enthusiasm is really infectious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungfumonkey Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 just watched the video review and he does say it has a metal gearbox not metal reinforced. but on the subject of price when it breaks which if its the same as my mates cheapsoft shouldnt be to long tell her to either save up (and extra £60 would have got her a cm16 m4a1 with battery and charger) or buy second hand off the forums as theres loads of two tone guns about on different forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheriffHD Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Id say grab a bargain off the forums, There has been a fwe people selling G&G rifles dirty cheap on here, I think a fw weeks back there was a dude selling his two tone for £40 with Battery in good condition. So its always worth checking the buy section out on these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Rolo Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 I think the idea about a 2nd-hand gun off the forums is an excellent idea, thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Rolo Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 My mate and I took our respective guns up to The Grange (thanks for the recommendation Tariq), to get them checked out prior to going on a skirmish. As has been said by people far more experienced than I, the real world is where a JBBG AEG falls over spectacularly. I'd like to point out that JBBG have a handy little legal disclaimer webpage for this gun "Specifications, colour and contents may vary on this product", which I assume means that all their wild claims for it don't have to be true. Nice(!) JBBG specs claim their M901A AEG has 300fps with 0.20 BBs and their video review claims it has 320fps. They claim "It is the NEWEST and most powerful AEG on the market." The chrono showed that managing even 200fps was only occasional. The power output was inconsistent with some BBs falling short and others achieving an acceptable range. JBBG claim the M901A is very accurate. It really isn't. The hop-up unit is all or nothing, with a tiny sweet spot that allows you to give the BBs their best chance of going where you expect. However there is no adjustment to compensate for the BBs veering off to either side, and the inconsistent power output of the gun means that hop-up adjustment is like to herding cats. To top it off, later in the day the gun mysteriously died for a while. A little fiddling and shaking restored normal operation, but it doesn't inspire confidence. So I've gone from thinking it's not so bad for the money, to realising it really is a toy with delusions of grandeur. If my friend skirmished with this, she'd never hit anyone as the accuracy is so poor, and I'm pretty sure the gun would fail after heavy use. Having bought this AEG to see if she likes Airsofting, she realises she'll have to hire a weapon anyway. So she has a cute toy which is a little bit too dangerous to play with. What's REALLY annoyed me is that pretty much EVERY claim JBBG makes for this AEG is misleading/incorrect/dirty lie. That grinds my gears! Legally though, I think their "everything you read and hear about this weapon may be incorrect" disclaimer keeps them just legal, In fact it's probably the most honest thing written on their website! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungfumonkey Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 yeh it really is depressing that by putting a sentence that says they talk crap means they get away with it, you would think that trading standards would enforce that company's have to give honest stats and reviews on there products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Richard65 Posted October 12, 2012 Supporters Share Posted October 12, 2012 I don't think the `disclaimer' would protect them if the gun is nothing like the advertisement and video review. It could also be argued that the placing of the disclaimer (after the reviews/comments section) makes it likely that the average buyer would never even see it. It still has to be `fit for purpose' and the video clearly suggests that it would be a great gun for skirmishing. In the first instance i think you should contact the company and give them the chance to put things right - they may agree that you have received a faulty gun and offer a free replacement. If you get no satisfaction then a referral to Trading Standards and/otr Advertising Standards Authority is required - if no one is willing to make the effort to report the compant then they will be able to carry on selling crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzuki Yamamoto Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Sorry guys, but i'm unable to view the JustBBGuns website via my office computer. In the description of the gun does it state that it is suitable for skirmishing? All the descritpions regarding the gun would have been supplied by the manufacturer (i'm guessing) when they are purchased by the retailer so it may not all be JustBB's fault over the description and refferring it to Trading standards may not have much of an impact. It might be worth checking with JustBBGuns as to where their information regarding the gun came from (manufacturer or self manifested) and give them a chance. It may actually be the manufacturer that needs reporting to Trading standards rather than the retailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Richard65 Posted October 12, 2012 Supporters Share Posted October 12, 2012 On the site they rate it as a Pro AEG, 311 fps and with great quality. They do not state that it is suitable for skirmishing but... They say "It is one of the most effective AEGs you wiill ever have the joy of shooting" and "It is the NEWEST and the most powerful AEG on the market". In the video they claim it is very accurate - hitting a post 3" wide at about 10m. The video is on the same page as the gun pictures and description. Maybe this gun was just a faulty one and the company will offer a replacement as it seems that it does not perform anywhere near the advertised spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungfumonkey Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 i have owned a double eagle gun before on the box it said hop up adjustable, range upto 40m's auto elec pro softair gun. then the normal pics and warnings etc. as for it being called a pro airsoft gun theres no such thing really as what defines pro? buy the looks of it if d.e put lower stats on there boxes then just bb must exaggerate them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Rolo Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 I am going to twist her arm and get her to complain to JBBG about this gun. Maybe it IS just a lemon and they are normally okay. It is pretty outrageous that they claim so much for this gun. I think we could probably get them under the trades descriptions act. I've googled and found this on Trades Description Act 1968 (my italics) (1) A trade description is an indication, direct or indirect, and by whatever means given, of any of the following matters with respect to any goods or parts of goods, that is to say— . (a)quantity, size or gauge; (b)method of manufacture, production, processing or reconditioning; . ©composition; . (d)fitness for purpose, strength, performance, behaviour or accuracy; . (e)any physical characteristics not included in the preceding paragraphs; . (f)testing by any person and results thereof; . (g)approval by any person or conformity with a type approved by any person; . (h)place or date of manufacture, production, processing or reconditioning; . (i)person by whom manufactured, produced, processed or reconditioned; JBBG certainly makes claims that fall under (d) IMO. Anyway, if I get anywhere, I'll update this thread accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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