Supporters jcheeseright Posted September 10, 2012 Supporters Share Posted September 10, 2012 I'm not getting round the VCRA, I've been 100% compliant, I just don't see the point in registering with UKARA (I have played enough skirmishes at one site to qualify) when there's absolutely no need to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters TPI Posted September 10, 2012 Supporters Share Posted September 10, 2012 Cheese your right and you too Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexb111 Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Heres a question I've never asked: Is it free to register for UKARA? - Not including skirmishes obv I always thought it was just a form to fill in. If so then you have two choices: If you meet the fuzz your quite likely to spend a few hours sorting it out. Or, you can just fill 1 form out, get it sent off and you can be almost completely sure to have no problems if your ever stopped or questions. I think my point stands even more in this situation, is it really worth the problem for the time it takes to fill a form in. If it does cost for UKARA I see your point, yet still Im just looking at the pro's and cons of doing it non ukara and with ukara. Its just seems the easiest way to be sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters TPI Posted September 11, 2012 Supporters Share Posted September 11, 2012 it is free but site's charge you membership otherwise they won't sign your Sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Liam Porter Posted September 11, 2012 Supporters Share Posted September 11, 2012 None of the sites I've been to have charged any membership or anything. Simply just turn up to your first game, ask about UKARA and they'll give you a first stamp (date, signature and stamp), then bring the sheet along the next couple of times to get the final stamps. Then they add you to the database and send an email your UKARA details once done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratmandan Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 And then I find this.... http://www.actionhobbies.co.uk/Kalashnikov...fle_A14VVE.aspx Really! An air rifle has a purpose hunting/vermin control this is just stupid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoobySnacks Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 And then I find this....http://www.actionhobbies.co.uk/Kalashnikov...fle_A14VVE.aspx Really! An air rifle has a purpose hunting/vermin control this is just stupid... Not sure on your point Dan. The AK is classed as a firearm. It isn't an imitation firearm, it is a real one. Albeit a real one that is classified as a type that is "less dangerous" and can be held without a licence. It has nothing to do with airsoft weapons in any way. It is not an imitation firearm and so doesn't fall under the same rules as imitation firearms. It might seem easier to buy one, but actually to purchase an air gun that is a firearm you need to turn up in person, prove who you are, your age etc. (and have those details recorded on an official record). Airsoft weapons can be bought by post, and you are under no compunction to leave any details when you buy one. It is legal to sell airsoft weapons without being a registered firearms dealer, it is not legal to sell an airgun that is a firearm without an RFD certificate. (For information, a "firearm" is defined as "a lethal barrelled weapon". An airsoft weapon gets away with it because the energy level is low enough that it is not considered "lethal" As for using air rifles for killing vermin, yes, absolutely capable of it. The BB gun you linked to isn't, but a proper air rifle is more than capable of taking small ground game (rabbits, squirrels, hare) and vermin (rats, mice, wood and feral pigeon) at sensible ranges. Many people put a lot of food on the table with air guns. But don't try it with an airsoft gun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratmandan Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 My point is that there is a load of bollocks written in the law about restricting TOY GUNS to the general Populus And yet any tw*t can buy a completely pointless ak47 REPLICA "using many real parts" that fires steel ball bearings (more dangerous than an airsoft gun) and it's a replica and anyone could buy it and give it to anybody else as after the initial purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratmandan Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 I do think a .2 at 495 fps would do the job on a mouse though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Richard65 Posted September 20, 2012 Supporters Share Posted September 20, 2012 My point is that there is a load of bollocks written in the law about restricting TOY GUNS to the general PopulusAnd yet any tw*t can buy a completely pointless ak47 REPLICA "using many real parts" that fires steel ball bearings (more dangerous than an airsoft gun) and it's a replica and anyone could buy it and give it to anybody else as after the initial purchase. I know you could buy an air rifle or pistol if you are over 18 but it would be illegal to give it to anyone who is under 18. I did a quick search for Replica AK47 and all the sites had a note about the VCR act. The only one I found that was being sold without restriction was a deactivated one thhat would not fire any projectile. From the point of view of restricting the sale of RIFs that could be used to scare someone then I must agree that the VCR has too many holes in it to be effective. On the other hand, the need for a valid defence for airsoft guns should make it less likely that any potential bad guy would not bother trying to get one but buy an airgun or deactivated one instead. Maybe that could make a difference if they try to tighten the law and would be enough to allow airsofters to continue buying RIFs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexb111 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 The reason is regulation as stated before. Since airsoft guns are "toys" they cannot be properly regulated or restricted (mail order etc) and the under 18 question is in effect too with RIF gifts. When you buy an air rifle your name and address are taken so if your spotted in public its pretty easy for the police to trace who in the area has a gun of that type and even a poor description could easily lead to your arrest and at the least removal of your firearm. On the other hand if you rob a bank with an airsoft gun there could be hundreds of people of similar build and description (assuming a balaclava or whatever is worn to cover obvious points) who could have been the robber(s). Even with video footage of the gun and your outline they still have no idea who in the UK has airsoft guns and how many or what kind. This is why they have to put some restriction on it to try and make sure nutters can't get RIF's as easy as an internet order. But the police couldn't go as far as to take full details per purchase as its still a toy. Remember in some countries any RIF is illegal and in some airsoft guns even 2tone are illegal!! :S Furthermore, since airsoft guns are designed to be used against people (even though every gun manual states do not shoot at people) and air rifles are for shooting small animals there is some difference in people's perspectives (politicians mainly). Finally the law is the law, even if its stupid you have to follow it or risk being arrested. To change it would require many court battles and a lot of money and political clout which I don't imagine internet forums have. Only thing you can do is talk to your MP but lowering firearms restrictions isn't a known vote winner Do I think there should be heavier restrictions on air rifles: Yes Do I think UKARA and similar are reasonable restrictions but not over the top: Yes But the point is it won't be changed by us talking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratmandan Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 You can give an airgun to 14 to 17 yearolds who can use on private land unsupervised... And the link above shows the "airgun" in question it is a replica of an ak47 which is purchasable by anyone with a driving licence and once has left the shop untracable. I don't really care anyway as I'm not breaking anylaws at the moment....anybody know where you can get small cans of spray paint want olive green a lighter green and a brown my ummmmrifle case isn't that big Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters TPI Posted September 21, 2012 Supporters Share Posted September 21, 2012 .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Richard65 Posted September 21, 2012 Supporters Share Posted September 21, 2012 You can give an airgun to 14 to 17 yearolds who can use on private land unsupervised...And the link above shows the "airgun" in question it is a replica of an ak47 which is purchasable by anyone with a driving licence and once has left the shop untracable. You can loan an airgun to 14-17 year olds but you can not gift it to them. Yes, they can use it on private land but they can not carry it there and back unless supervised by someone over 21. For any 17 year old airsofter who can drive themselves it would be useful to carry a site membership cardm just in case they do get stopped and the police start suggesting their gun is an airgun, as carrying those would be illegal. No wonder you rarely see a poverty skricken lawyer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoobySnacks Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 You can loan an airgun to 14-17 year olds but you can not gift it to them. Yes, they can use it on private land but they can not carry it there and back unless supervised by someone over 21. For any 17 year old airsofter who can drive themselves it would be useful to carry a site membership cardm just in case they do get stopped and the police start suggesting their gun is an airgun, as carrying those would be illegal. No wonder you rarely see a poverty skricken lawyer! Alex, why should airguns have more restriction? I use all sorts of firearms, from airsoft guns right up to deer legal rifles, and invariably the legislation relating to them is unreasonably restrictive, and really doesn't do anything to improve public safety. Anyone who uses guns of any sort needs to support other legal gun users. It's no good saying "yes, I support more legislation and restrictions on HIS guns" and then complaining when the new rules are extended to YOUR guns too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexb111 Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Well a few years back some people on the next street to me (aged about 16/17 at the time) were having a party at their house, no parents or anything. They were drunk and firing an air rifle from an upstairs window into their garden but as ricochets were going into other peoples gardens the police got involved. I just think if drunk teenagers can get hold of one at a party there is something going wrong. As I understand it was the kids gun as well, not the parents which makes it worse in a way... :S And I fully support paintball, target shooting, airsoft (obv) and other such things and I know for normal people with normal purposes its quite a pain but I'd prefer it to be too difficult than too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Richard65 Posted September 23, 2012 Supporters Share Posted September 23, 2012 These kids and parents could be in more trouble if they did this now. The law relating to airguns makes it illegal for anyone under 18 to own an air rifle/pistiol. Also copied this from the airgun forum which would suggest the parents would be in trouble if they had not taken `reasonable precautions'. Crime and Security Bill: Offence of allowing minors access to air rifles/pistols, The Firearms Act 1968 is amended as follows. Failing to prevent minors from having air rifles/pistols. It is an offence for a person in possession of an air rifle/pistol to fail to take reasonable precautions to prevent any persons under the age of 18 from having the air rifle/pistol with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexb111 Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Yeah as I understand it there was some trouble and stuff, I didn't hear that much about exactly what happened but they were under surveillance/asbo thingy for a while if I remember rightly... Just the fact that they could get them in the first place bothered me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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