E&L AKS 74 hop questions

[SeniorSpaz87]

Hello guys,

As one of my first US Airsoft purchases, I bought an E&L AKS 74. It was a broken gun, but only beeded a new cylinder head, and was a fraction of the price of a new one, so I'm happy with that. One thing I have noticed, however, it that it has a plastic slider for the hop up adjustment... I have heard that these are quite unreliable, and I was wondering if I should get the hop replaced as well as the cylinder repaired.

Thanks,

Spaz

 

[Sitting Duck]

not got one but "think" there was a magwell spacer thingy to fix some feed issues

either it was E&L i think or LCT or something like that

might not be anything to do with your problem but just saying there was a thingy I remember seeing

ahh seems both E&L & LCT might have this bollox - hence me getting confused & unsure as to which

http://gunfire.pl/product-eng-1152208219-Magwell-spacer-AK.html

uhm just ignore this coz Like I said I ain't got one so best wait for a more clever mofo to chime in

 

[SeniorSpaz87]

Ok, not really relevant, but it is a good idea; I've often misseated my AK mags on reloads, so thanks for that. Now on to more questions.

1: I have heard E&L AKs have a plastic slider hop. Others sometimes say this is unreliable, as the slider can move around and screw up your set hop. Should I replace this, and what are some recommendations.

2: what battery should I use? I currently have only a single stick 8.4V 1600MaH battery to split between my Stoner 99 and my AKS. I used 9.4V 1600MaH nunchucks mostly in the UK, but these two guns require sticks. I have never used LiPos, but am not opposed to them.

3: I talked to the shop, which would charge me about £89 to open the AK's gearbox up and replace the cylinder head. So Im doing it myself now . How will I know if this is my issue, and if it is what do yall reccomebdations as a replacement?

4: Anything else? Reccomendations are welcome. Again, I'm not a huge techy, so nothing too advanced please. Also, I am on a college student's budget, so nothing super expensive (yes, I know, I want to P* everything too...).

Thanks

 

[Sitting Duck]

strip box check it is just head or if anything else is problem

sort the issue for now - you could go nutz and do this n that

but if you ain't ultra techy just one thing at a time

hop can be done later - but if it works then leave it

lipo's will need a new charger - say a b3 or b6

maybe these sticks might work but please check yourself

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__17287__Turnigy_nano_tech_1300mah_2S_25_50C_Lipo_AIRSOFT_Pack.html

by all means have a go yourself - do it in small stages and it should go sweet

(rip things to bits with loads of upgrades means more stuff to check or go wrong)

if a shop is good then that might be a fall back option

though just a few places are not quite as good as you might think

No offense to other places who have great techies who would wipe the floor with most of us

just saying the are a few no so great ones I have heard - so yeah go for it and see how you go

worse case scenario - it goes pear shape so either new box or shop techy to rescue

but you got it cheap so wtf have a go yourself

 

[Lozart]

1: I have heard E&L AKs have a plastic slider hop. Others sometimes say this is unreliable, as the slider can move around and screw up your set hop. Should I replace this, and what are some recommendations.

Click to shrink...

The sliding adjuster on a V3 hop unit is held in place by a small screw. Tighten the screw up a bit and job's a good 'un.

 

[Sitting Duck]

sometimes people place a shim behind it to give it a bit more grip

see how it goes in operation once you got the box/head problem sorted

 

[SeniorSpaz87]

Alright, will do

 

[SeniorSpaz87]

Ok guys. Opened her up, found a lot of stock grease, and nothing obviously wrong... The guy I got it from says it's the cylinder head, so I've attached some pics of it. It is black and plastic, but there's nothing obviously wrong to my untrained eye. Feel free to request more pics of different parts; I have till tomorrow around noon to keep her open, then she's off to Uni with me, working or not.

Come on you AK guys, I know yall know what you are doing ?

 

[Sitting Duck]

first pic - does that cylinder head have an o-ring on it in that groove ????

hard to make out but at first glance that should have an o-ring on there to improve seal

add a load of ptfe or plumbing tape etc....

otherwise you'd be losing loads of compression and hence seem like a cracked cylinder head ???

can't be sure with head being jet black - looks 50% missing o-ring to me

did it nigh on fall out of the cylinder ???

when good piston o-ring seal & cylinder head it only compresses a tiny amount and then feels like solid

almost like water is in there or some other liquid rather than air

that is difference between a good air seal & a great air seal

actually starting to see I think the o-ring - but damn its not very pronounced

being jet black is making it hard to see o-ring let alone a cracked head

real test is how good it all seals up when compressing the piston in cylinder with head fitted

 

[SeniorSpaz87]

Better pic. It has a little sleeve that goes over it, I've removed that for clarity

 

[SeniorSpaz87]

More possibly helpful information. I put it back together to dry fire it to ID issues. It seems, when fired with no mag, no air comes out the barrel. However, it does come out the hole that lines up with the mag that BBs go into to (bottom of hop). Any ideas why?

 

[Sitting Duck]

was typing the bits below but you replied with a results test.....

hmmm - firing out of gearbox/nozzle but jack $hit coming out of barrel ????

ok see if you can get gearbox to cycle with nozzle as far forward as possible

place hop/barrel against gearbox/nozzle and blow down barrel

it should of sealed if piston/nozzle seal is good

check hop bucking - could be damaged or torn - just do a visual check than strip it down atm

other issues is tappet not moving fully forward

or

incorrect nozzle fitted as there are 2 types of AK nozzle long n short

but tbh I doubt it as it looks like a stock type of nozzle but who knows what the previous owner did

the nozzle/tappet plate should move nicely forward n backwards - enough to allow bb to enter

and also forward enough to seal against bucking in hop

I would check hop unit is seated correctly and bolted together to the main receiver - all aligned correctly

loss of compression or fps occurs either in gearbox - piston, cylinder head & nozzle

or

a poor seal from nozzle to hop unit (well the bucking can leak around barrel plus torn/worn/damaged bucking)

often a common bad seal occurs from a poor nozzle to bucking seal is one of the likely issues

and can be from worn/damaged/snagging tappet, worn nozzle or wrong nozzle length etc......

atm is seems pi$$ poor seal from nozzle to hop bucking maybe ????

previous essay I was composing about cylinder/piston seals but don't worry too much atm

coz your hop ain't getting much air pushing through it atm

so check hop to box and if nozzle touches the bucking......

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Yup you got single o-ring on it....

now pop that in cylinder, probably won't seal that great but wtf....

pop in piston into cylinder - leave nozzle off

finger over cylinder head and check compression.....

probably a bit crap but see how it compresses

best options are new double o-ring cylinder head & perhaps new nozzle

but if time is short, parts availability limited you can try the cheapo options.....

white ptfe tape - etc... wrapped around cylinder head n jam it in with a bit of grease to help

piston o-ring can be stretched - some say lighter but think the safer way is:

place piston o-ring around cylinder and drop this in a small dish of boiling water

leave to cool, empty & pout in boiling water again - do this about 3 times to help stretch o-ring

(using lighter can be a bit more risky)

realistically - you should replace stuff with better/new bits n bobs but worth a go....

 

[SeniorSpaz87]

I've already got a new head coming, in a few days when it arrives I'll open her up again and see how that works.

 

[Sitting Duck]

check the hop unit is correctly fitted into gearbox nozzle opening

the classic paper test would show same results - air pi$$ing out of magwell which should not be happening

if nozzle seals against bucking - the lips of the hop up = airtight and flows down barrel not magwell

there are different nozzles for all different guns - 2 for AK's

short - 19.6mm

long - 21.7mm

but I doubt if wrong nozzle fitted atm but more info about nozzles n lengths here:

http://www.clandestineairsoft.com/nozzles-c-1_6_14/

what you need to do is check all the factors like I said

see if tappet plate is moving freely back n forth - no snagging (remove spring from tappet btw and slide tappet back n forth)

with box open and tappet+ nozzle fully forward but up hop to half of open box

& see if you can "feel" nozzle touching & sealing against bucking

see if hop unit is sealing correctly against completed gearbox like I mentioned

you need to check all bits involved for any wear or snagging/bad operation

did gun ever fire bb's at all - is bad seal something new or was it like this when you bought it ???

sounds like previous owner didn't have a clue - might have broke or fitted old nozzle with a new incorrect one that isn't sealing

but you must have a very pi$$ poor seal or big airleak if most air is coming out of magwell instead of barrel

if it was shagged cylinder head very little air would be emerging from nozzle but should pass down barrel

so something is up with that box/nozzle to hop area

btw you can't just shove in a long nozzle where a short nozzle should of been as you will very likely get feeding issues

(improved seal but the correct length nozzle is a must - it needs to be just right to allow bb's to feed and also just enough to seal properly)

to me at first or second glance head looks ok and nozzle looks undamaged too

dunno about the operation of nozzle to hop - you need to investigate this like I said

 

[Sitting Duck]

ok here is some info I dug up that might indicate it needs to be a LONG AK nozzle

but don't quote me or sue me if I'm wrong.....

http://gunfire.pl/product-eng-1152200426-Nozzle-for-the-AK-type-replicas-long.html

in comments bit 2 x reviewers wrote:




Rate:

Author: Ronalds, Riga

I bought this nozzle because I read in comments that it fits E&L AK and I can only confirm, that it fits perfectly. Definite by if you have E&L AK.




Rate:

Author: Kenneth, Oosterzele

Good nozzle for good price. Slightly longer than standard AK nozzle. Perfect for E&L replica's.


so if that stuff is correct check your nozzle is 20.7 and not 19.6mm - yeah I know it is gonna be tricky if you ain't got digital caliper
but at least you might know what type of nozzle "should" be in there....

yup - couple of sites say longer AK nozzle 20.7mm in E&L's

and shs might be one to try n tracck down if needed:
http://www.clandestineairsoft.com/nozzles-c-1_6_14/shs-aluminum-ak47-oring-nozzle-long-2074mm-p-21.html

but you still need to check to operation & correct alignment of hop to box/nozzle etc...

jeez I gotta grab some sleep, hope somebody else is up soon to help ya but I gotta get some shut eye sir

 

[SeniorSpaz87]

OK, another update. I got my new cylinder (short), and installed it. It still has the same problem. could be that its the wrong type, but maybe not. I measured the nozzle (the plastic cover I didn't ID in the previous pictures), and when fully in it is 5mm long; when extended, 7mm. This was a warning sign straight away, as it needs to move 6mm to allow a BB to enter, and then slide forward to forma seal (please, correct me if im wrong). Does this help ID my problem? Do I need a new air nozzle instead of a cylinder head, or are the two related?

 

[Sitting Duck]

Actually needs to move about 8mm,

6mm bb + a smidge either way to enter easily

and to shove it into hop

Tappet plate n nozzle has to move to very front of box

and all the way back to cylinder head or nigh on

This should be the usual aprox 8mm movement

Remove tappet spring and rotate sector gear to check how the tappet moves back n forth.

Check for any snagging or broken bits or wear or bent tappet plate etc....

Strongly advise open up box

Do loads of close up examination of tappet moving

Take a few good pics too to show what is going on

I'm no expert especially on v3's

But sounds like something broke/worn

or worse previous owner may badly fitted something

Heck even a v2 tappet into a v3 or something daft

But you are making progress yourself in identifying a too small movement in tappet perhaps

Get some pics up first before fitting any new bits

As present parts may not be worn badly or heck

They might be the wrong parts or fitted badly

At some point you may need to fit a new nozzle with o-ring for better seal

But the tappet movement sounds wrong and needs thorough investigation atm

When you have checked it all out you might need a tappet plate so you can add a nozzle maybe at same time, but for now check out everything is as it should be

 

[SeniorSpaz87]

Ok, issue one fixed. The lip on the tappet plate had worn off, so that's been replaced. Now, I still think my problem is a too short cylinder head. Looking down the feeding tube with a BB loaded shows the nozzle only extending 1/2 way across the feeding tube. Therefore I think the extra length is the solution, but I'll wait for your I put before I buy anything else. And no, pics aren't gonna happen; the hole is too small and dark to get a pic that shows anything, I tried.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Ok, issue one fixed. The lip on the tappet plate had worn off, so that's been replaced. Now, I still think my problem is a too short cylinder head. Looking down the feeding tube with a BB loaded shows the nozzle only extending 1/2 way across the feeding tube. Therefore I think the extra length is the solution, but I'll wait for your I put before I buy anything else. And no, pics aren't gonna happen; the hole is too small and dark to get a pic that shows anything, I tried.

Click to shrink...

The cylinder head itself is not the length problem perhaps....

A G36 cylinder head has a longer spout but often can't be used as shorter M4 & AK nozzles "bottom out" on nozzle tube on head

What I'm trying to say is the nozzle hasn't travelled far enough into the hop at rest

A cylinder head with long/short nozzle tube won't matter atm coz if nozzle tube was too short it would fall off

yes a longer nozzle may need a longer nozzle tube on cylinder head for stability but in itself it wouldn't restrict the nozzle travel at rest

The nozzle may be catching on hop unit - a large/fat nozzle may not fit inside the hop unit correctly

a too tight fitting nozzle may be catching as it enters the hop unit.....

easy check - remove nozzle and see if it enters the hop unit fully and seals against bucking

(nozzle inserted with finger holding nozzle in place - blow down barrel = airtight seal)

if you feel the nozzle dragging/binding that may need investigating

(some nozzles - SHS red M4 nozzle can be a smidge tight fitting in G&G hops, can bind and a red mark appears quickly in hop's nozzle end)

So check the nozzle - and any nozzle slips back n forth in the hop unit

if it binds or catches on hop - sometimes the the thicker end of nozzle catches in hop - stopping nozzle entering hop fully

OK once this is checked an ruled out/fixed

nozzle back in gearbox - either complete gearbox or right side of case removed....

nozzle fully forward at rest = max nozzle smacked up against the fron of gearbox....

place hop unit up against gearbox - the nozzle has gotta seal against bucking....

how the nozzle is still failing to travel say 3 or 4mm short is unclear to me.....

if it is only half way in hop unit's feed tube is beyond bizzare unless the nozzle has started to retract again

which it does when firing on semi's cut off position - it shouldn't in theory but in practice it does as box slightly "over runs" a little

Thus when it finishes after a single shot on semi - the nozzle has just started to retract again so it may seem like it is stopping short

Phew all that crap is confusing to me but hopefully you get what I'm trying to say - the nozzle might have started to pull back 3mm

and so it "looks" like it is stopping short, when in fact it might not be and retracting once again.....

Yes it seems like the AK might use longer AK nozzle but that is only 1mm longer not 3mm difference

so investigate the nozzle's proper full travel - paying real attention to the proper fully forward/resting position

and also check how the nozzle slips into the hop in case it is too tight/binding

And yes - it is all a major bollock ache checking n double checking stuff but it really has to be done with every single part

a tiny difference or minor misalignment will through out by loads or fail to operate correctly

Any part changed needs to be fully compared with the part that is replaced at every stage

chuck more n more new parts and if there is any slight difference - just nozzles - length too short or binding in hop creates mega grief

add in a few more bits n bobs - tight piston fit inside box, bad seals, hop bucking lip catching on bb's and creating feed problems

Oh yes so many bits not quite working correctly together 101% = a weekend of aeg headache's

So to check EVERYTHING is working as 101% best and as smoothly as possible takes more just a quick couple of hours of slappin this n that in there

Soz for ultra mega War n Peace post - but you need to REALLY check a few more things out first before jumping in and ordering more stuff

You should have say 8mm or so nozzle movement, that should be fine for bb to enter and nozzle to seal into bucking

if not something ain't right or hop isn't seating correctly to gearbox/nozzle

It is difficult for any of us to see what is front of you - hence trying to ultra detail stuff you need to check out first

pics will help though

I doubt if any wrong parts have been fitted by previous owner but you never know with some people

so thorough checks will need to be done for everything until the main problem(s) are indentified

 

[SeniorSpaz87]

Haha, I've come to expect long and slightly confusing posts fro you. It is defiantly the nozzle not coming forward, but for what reason, I can't tell. The only thing I know is that it isn't sealing. I can load a mag, put the trigger a few times, get the gears to wind and "fire", and yet no bb travels down the barrel. When the mag is removed, I can see s liver of the bb at the forward end of the hop feeding tube. I don't actually believe any of the bbs are even entering the hop chamber. I'll take the fun apart again in a few hours and test the seating with the hop; I haven't been able to get the hop out of the gun so far, but I haven't really tried.

Keep it coming