Help with gear ratio decision for a particular build.

[Slaverius]

Hey there gang!

 

Name of the game is a carabine balanced between, Triger responce/durability of internals and reliability/ long and relatively short range effectiveness. So you will se almost all parts are following a familiar ideas for other specialized builds but meeting a few ideas half way, in the end it it all adds up to a replica that is just all purpose and is inside the legal requirements in my country. Which are 100 mps and 1.7 jaules with.0.30 bbs.

 

Base is an E&L Mark18 Platinum the externals, gearbox, taper plate, sector delayer and barrel are the only things left stock E&L stock internals are just so bad. After 4 sunday skirmishes the piston went, and soon after that the piston head and I decided to just make it my own and use the one peace cylinder set for a different project.

 

PARTS LIST!

 

Motor is Ultimate 22k 22TPA, really wanted the 28 TPA 18K but it was out of stock so went with this one. E&L Motor was pretty decent but I wrecked it trying to change the pinion, now centre pole that holds the pinion and is inside the armature is loose and keeps spinning out and wreking bevels and pinions. Will fix it some day.

 

Lonex cylinder head with silicone gasket washer to correct AOE, haven't tested how long they last but it seems to dampen impact quite well, and doesn't compress to much. Will be adding a nylone padding to the back to piston head to get the AOE samck dab 90 °.

 

Cylinder is Retro Arms type C 290mm - 369mm barrels, to to have a little over volume even after AOE.

 

Piston is Modify Quantum not to impressed with how narrow the teeth are, shiming is a chore but it seems sturdy enough, its about 18 g just 3 grams over, what I intended it to weigh but will do for now.

 

Piston head is Retro Arms, CNC Aluminum Piston Head - X. Should be 10 g according to them but is closer to 12 g. Stil it's no biggie.

Both parts are now 30g, but with the cylinder head having padding on the front, the AOE correction and the Beaffy mf that E&L GBs are the weight and m110 spring it is not be a big deal in terms of reliability.

 

 

So I did prof of concept for the light JC results were 0.36g Bbs got me 89 mps and 1.6 jaules and 0.30g Bbs 100 mps and 1.45 jaules. But I went for 14:1 triple bearing Gears, which are geat on paper, scilent as F on a rushed shim job, the bearing delayer is a good idea as well but just needs to be a smidge larger, I tried 3 different tappet plates and an adjustable nozle but I just could not get any mid- cap mags to feed without having to pad the mag well, not ideal considering it was working fine before with 18:1 stock gears and limits me from using a teammate's mags when in a pinch. Also bearings onto of bearings just more points for potential issues.

 

Right now I have a 11.1v 1100mah 20/40 C Nuprol battery. That was fine with the test build. Maybe a 140 mag short of the 18:1. But that was with the stock E&L motor, that I have no idea what the specs are.

 

Now I just need advice on which what ratio gears to use?

 

I am mentioning them but forgeting brands (as if the cheapo faster gears last a year without any issues then a higher end set might outlive my airsoft career) I'll get a set as soon as I find it available on sites that deliver to me.

 

So....

 

What would be the better choice just when It comes to ratio, for concept of the build, and just general reliability.

 

14:1 "Big Dragon" standard non bearing gears (to be honest seem decent) I tested by hitting one tooth on sector and spur gears with a screw driver and a hammer and they seem to just scratch and dent the tiniest bit.

 

Vs.

 

ASG/Lonex "Ultimate" 16:1

 

Both sets are having bushings on spur and sector and bearings only on the bevel.

 

And both ratios will be using the ASG Bavel as it meshes with the motor perfectly and with the BD spur as well.

 

I also have just a basic mini fet by perun. But AB is something I am considering, if it's worth fiddling with selector switches and plates 

So I ca slap spare G&G ETU that I have, and now has no home, because a buddy of mine gota GATE Titan....

 

AB might solve a lot of issues that the 14:1 gears might pose. It will keeping the motor from overspining and preventing possible PME on auto plus I can get rid of it and use burst for then intense moments, helping with consistency of power output as get that much tighter, considering all other factors are taken care off and just an extra reliability feature if something brakes mid cycle might be nice.

 

I know G&G electronics have a reputation failures between me and all my regular teammates we have had 15 plus replicas with different batches of and recently versions, and we had only one board that got hotter than  normal and started burning fuses but a 30 amp fuse fixet the issue functionaly but the replica goes through batteries some heat faster then others.

 

Plus have it already and the G&G ETU, is the only other triger system I'd trade stock trigger for, Treeger feed back just bearly passable but it just makes up for it with the trigger responce, with 18:1 and m100 and 25k G&G motor, just hits the right spot for me. And on my build it should have even better TR. Maybe a rewiring will help it last longer as well. And if it brakes or it just won't play well with the GB and selectos. I'll just put back the standard triger and a GATE nanoAB or piccoAB.

 

I'm not fond and Optic triggers in general or even mechanical like the ASCU lite that I tested with its bogus shimig prerequisites and mushiest microswitch I have ever used, and yes my friend had his fited by an experienced tech but still it's just the random oddity from time to time that I just so annoying. When it's in top environmental conditions it works very well, but the light sensors are pretty finicky, the triger pull just feels incomplete to me I just prefer the tectile feedback of the normal triger contacts much better. Worst case I'll settle for a michroswitch but clicky!

 

Precocking is pretty cool and a big advantage to have, but it is so much strain on almost the whole internal system that its woth on a purpose CQB build that it would se the most benefit. Heh and besides a Warfet has almost the same features as the titan for a much reasonable price and if something goes wrong you just unplug it and plug a spare. 

 

So all and any advice is appreciated. And sorry for the long post just wanted to tell the whole story.

 

And got a bit carried away with my own opinions about stuff.

 

Would like your thoughts on the dilemma. Thanks in advance.

[Sitting Duck]

2 hours ago, Slaverius said:

So I did prof of concept for the light JC results were 0.36g Bbs got me 89 mps and 1.6 jaules and 0.30g Bbs 100 mps and 1.45 jaules. But I went for 14:1 triple bearing Gears, which are geat on paper, scilent as F on a rushed shim job, the bearing delayer is a good idea as well but just needs to be a smidge larger, I tried 3 different tappet plates and an adjustable nozle but I just could not get any mid- cap mags to feed without having to pad the mag well, not ideal considering it was working fine before with 18:1 stock gears and limits me from using a teammate's mags when in a pinch. Also bearings onto of bearings just more points for potential issues.

 

Did you try a SHS v2 tappet as that is one tappet that retracts a smidge more imho

(not a great deal but a whisker more)

Sand front of tappet to get it to return more and use a whisker shorter nozzle or sand nozzle etc....

 

There are various bodges & work-arounds for each situation

BUT you have discovered those cam bearing sectors are a bit limited for tappet travel tuning (you can't fit delayer)

Well you can but more involved bodging or slightly larger bearing or remove bearing and tap in a large conventional cam

 

Those 14:1 bearing cam sector gears - chuck it in a V3 maybe that has a smidge more tappet travel to begin with

and you should have less tappet/feed issues I reckon than on a V2

 

The joules & mps & bb weight crap kinda got me confused at first... - keep it simple with chrono on 0.20's results

But then you are using a m110 - so no biggy pulling stuff on a 22tpa neo

 

Maybe 16:1 on 11.1v is what I'm guessing you are using to power it all ???

G&G ETU's like 11.1v than lower voltage & the ETU is I believe AB or partial AB breaking

(but still wouldn't trust it long term, but that is just me)

 

Me personally, I like either SHS or Cyma pistons as they are good cheap pistons for ya buck

SHS Blue pistons can bind in a number of boxes - lovely in a G&G box though

Cyma's are a bit loose in some boxes (like the G&G that loves SHS pistons)

& in some instances where one is too tight/loose perhaps...

I have another old ACM in pink & also in black from years & years ago that are like tanks but in the middle of SHS/Cyma fitment in those inbetween boxes, but very few left now, damn they were nice, should have bought more at the time

Bit heavier but really like tanks - sadly long gone out of production  but cheap and strong as an ox driving an M1 Abrams

 

Realistically you are looking for 20~25rps build so how you get there you will have numerous options/ways of doing it

some will have more overspin - but you can argue that it will have a bit of pre-cocking & park the gun on 7.4v before packing up for day

you could use AB or a m120 & Short Stroke - which if using 16:1's you can utilise the old std 18:1 sector to experiment with as long as release tooth is not the fat type - you can leave the full rack on piston

if a large release tooth on sector then best remove teeth on piston too

 

TM gear but seen this jumbo release/last tooth on some reg AEG's....

 

 

so if your sector has teeth all the same size - you don't have to remove the spare teeth on rack

it will work, though many remove them just to be on safe side, yet if you check your work you can leave rack

Then with full rack you can experiment with a 1 tooth SS, 2 tooth SS, 3 tooth SS etc - just remove another tooth on sector cleanly on pickup

if all fails/you remove too many teeth, then on a 16:1 set you should be able to grab a decent std sector

and "should" be compatible with the rest of 16:1 set and start over again with more teeth on sector etc...

(shimming permitted and a bit of nice meshing etc... but "should" work or be able to find one decent 18:1 sector from a box of spares)

 

TBH if you just chuck in a basic mosfet like the titchy perun, or a diy 3034 - heck the donkey work is done

then look to add a more featured warfet or something in minutes at some point later on if needed

 

But if I understand you are using 11.1v to power it all then 22k & 16:1 might be the way I would look to go

Something on a m120 SS say 2 teeth running 15rps say on 7.4v to make 24rps with a bit of overspin on 11.1v

I'd drop a steel COL in there maybe if you spam on semi a lot - or test present COL see if it is magnetic/ferrous/steel already

 

Thing is you ask this question and you will get a number of variations perhaps

more than one way to skin a cat and all/most will be valid & wise, usually arriving at a 20~25rps snappy build eventually

 

I'd keep the trigger conventional & have the regular external mosfet "Warfet ready" if needed

heck fit the basic perrun /diy 3034 onto a set of deans in the middle of loom, deans at both end

two mosfet supply/signal wires on a 2.5/2.54mm XH/JST connector or something

There ya go - Warfet ready if you want some bells & whistles at some point

then sell your gun on with the basic tiny perun/3034/ASR mosfet in there to keep your flashy warfet for next project

 

ahhh just slap it together, test it out and get a feel yourself based on your more recent builds of what you usually roll with

 

The best planning in the world, the best rps calculations and wotnot only get you so far

Most of the time the specification of a build is often based upon what shit works so far

and factor in a bit of variation depending on different spec of your next gun/build

In other words, you end up going with your own wisdom & gut instinct on a build spec most of the time

what works, the results, response, battery life, reliability etc.. - new gun's spec mostly based on your last couple of builds

 

You get a good feeling if/when you can predict fairly accurately the gun results/performance on the planning table

and identify if something isn't quite right if those figures fall considerably short of expectations

(bad shimming, poor motor performance or poor airseal/fps drop etc...)

 

Understand you wanting to plan it out as much as possible...

But don't be like me - way way way overthinking stuff much too often either perhaps

build it - use it - if it breaks then fix it and learn from it, how most of us have found out the hard way

improve with every build maybe, but spend less time over-planning and more time playing with the results

(I'm too old for this shit so have become a gearbox anorak saddo  )