dave1 Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Hello everyone, I am doing an AEG build, where I will be using an Orga Magnus 6.23mm wide bore barrel, and flat hop. I have bought the matching Orga Magnus cylinder and piston head set ( bore up ). The Orga Magnus cylinder and piston head set, doesn't come with the cylinder head. What cylinder heads have people been using for the Orga Magnus cylinder and piston head set? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 At the most bore up cylinders over an extra 5% volume for the same piston stroke. The bore of a stock cylinder is 23.8mm and the OD is 25.4mm. The thinnest cylinder wall I've measured on a 'bore up' cylinder is 0.5mm so the bore is 24.4mm. You can get that extra 5% for free by just being a little less picky about the AOE adjustment. The difference in bore is so close that a tight fitting standard head should still seal, perhaps with the help of a little PTFE tape. The Orga barrels can work on an AEG, but only if they're quite short so you can get the volume ratio, but you get less cushioning affect of the BB in the barrel so the piston tends to hit the cylinder head hard. What length barrel are you trying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1 Posted December 3, 2017 Author Share Posted December 3, 2017 I've already done extensive research and I'm happy with my choice of parts. The barrel and Prowin hop-up are already fitted anyway and the Orga cylinder and piston head is already here. Its well documented that Orga barrels compared to stock barrel ( stocks barrels are different in size from manufacturer to manufacturer ) have an fps lose of around 26-33fps, due to the wide bore. My current set up shoots 340fps in stock form with out any upgrades. So 340fps - 29fps = 311 fps. So if your saying that big bore cylinders give 5% increase. 311 + 5 % = 326.55 fps. I'm currently running an M105 spring. 105mps is 344fps. So my current spring in my completely standard gun is as advertised minus 4 fps probably due to air seal. With the Orga wide bore, Orga cylinder and piston head, M110 spring fitted. My gun should fire 342.55 fps. Of course if I wasn't using the big bore cylinder and piston I'd have to use a M115 spring to make the difference up, an M115 should bring it to 348fps. The only choice of big bore cylinder heads I'm aware of are Guarder and Baal. Guarder cylinder head isn't flat and is concave to take a domed piston. The Orga piston is flat but with 8 ports to increase the O-ring seal against the cylinder, compared to most manufacturers 6 port piston head. If the Baal or any other big bore cylinder head is flat? I'd really appreciate it, if some one could let me know? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1 Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 Just to let every one know, and in case somebody is lead to this thread in an internet search. Modify do a bore up Version 2/3 non silent ( flat head ) cylinder head for use with non silent piston heads. I've actually decided because the standard AEG parts air seal is so good, that I'm going to chuck in an M115 spring and see where that gets me. If it achieves 340fps plus, then I'll leave it set up like that. There might be an improvement in air seal, due to the Orga Magnus barrel having slightly larger OD than the standard barrel, the slightly larger OD of the Prommy purple hop rubber, and the CNC machined Prowin hop up unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 The 5% extra air volume doesn't translate as an extra 5% fps. What cylinder /barrel volume ratio are you trying to achieve, and what weight BBs are you intending to use? Also be aware that trying to achieve a decent air seal with the Prowin can be a bit hit or miss. It's also worth checking that is compatible with your receiver, although if you've used one in the gun before with good results you should be OK. Keep posting, as I'm interested to see what results you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1 Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 As already stated in an earlier post the Prowin is already fitted along with the Orga barrel. I know it isn't a straight 5%. Prowin generally have a good reputation, in fact I've never heard a bad word, very consistent batch to batch, as they are CNC milled from solid metal. They have a cult following and are getting harder to get hold of. If you had read my previous posts properly, you would of saw I have come to a conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 I've got two Prowin, and they are anything but consistent when you measure them. The latest batches are allegedly CNC machined and then grit blasted, which seems like a pointless additional process, but it might hide the manufacturing process that gives rise to oval holes. The earlier one I have does at least work, but out of 4 M4s, I've got one that the Prowin actually works in, and that took a bit of filing to get a clean fit. It genuinely works well in that one gun, but not in any of the others. They're also a pain to get right with a flat nub and an R hop due to the very short hop arm. I have read your posts carefully, and I've followed your reasoning. I'm not trying to shoot you down, in fact I'd like to see you succeed so I can expand my knowledge base, and perhaps help if you don't get the results you expect. This is why I was querying the barrel length and BB weight. It may be that one of my set ups has similar parameters and could offer a point of comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters ImTriggerHappy Posted December 4, 2017 Supporters Share Posted December 4, 2017 Prowin have become so bad I refuse to use them on any build. Love orga barrels but they are tricky to get working perfectly but worth the effort when they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1 Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 Your one isolated case that I know of so far, like i said most folks are happy with them. I'm not new to the sport, don't let my lack of post count or registration date fool you, if anything that should indicate it is very rare I need airsoft forums at all, its ever rarer that I ask for help. I might add you never answered my question directly, in the original posts. And you managed to miss the fact I had already fitted the Orga barrel and Prowin hop up unit. So I tend to disagree with you that you read post very carefully. I've been Airsofting for 16 years.. I've had no problem flat hopping with the Orga and Prowin. I followed Amped Airsoft instructions...I guess the Orga being designed to be flat hopped helps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1 Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said: Prowin have become so bad I refuse to use them on any build. Love orga barrels but they are tricky to get working perfectly but worth the effort when they do. My Prowin fits brilliantly and works as it should do, with very fine adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 It wasn't clear from your previous post if the barrel and hop are simply fitted, or whether you've already checked for function. At the moment you've offered quite a lot of 'could' and 'should' and I'm interested to see how the expectations meet with measured results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 23 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said: Prowin have become so bad I refuse to use them on any build. Love orga barrels but they are tricky to get working perfectly but worth the effort when they do. Can you quantify the improvement, and some of the pitfalls? Currently I'm intrigued by some of the results people are claiming for the Crazy Jet barrels, and I'm looking for something interesting to do to my DMR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1 Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 The only "could" be was the hypothetical maths on performance. I stated very clearly that the Prowin and Orga barrel was already fitted, to quote myself when it was originally stated "The barrel and Prowin hop-up are already fitted anyway ". There is no " could " about that last statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangtight Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 I'll say it again. I'm not here to give you a hard time. I'm genuinely interested. I'm pleased the Prowin works in this application, I simply wanted to pass on my experience, and of others that with the newer versions that is not always the case. I'm an engineer, I ask questions and I question everything. It's a path to understanding, not a device intended to raise hackles. And I'm still interested in the cylinder/ barrel volume ratio vs BB weight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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