ICS CXP 16, Should I change gears to 12:1

[slipperysquid]

Hi all,

         I have an ics cxp 16 and a set of 12:1 gears laying about from a previous project that I'm thinking of installing. Now the question is, should I? Will it put undue strain on the gearbox?

 

I'm running an m100 spring that's giving about 355 or less with .2bbs and 7.4v lipo. I have a Jeftron trigger replacing mosfet installed. Also have a SHS high torque motor.

 

What I'm trying to achieve is a faster trigger response. When I'm spamming the trigger I sometimes get double shots on semi and I'm hoping that changing the gears will help that while being able to maintain a fast trigger action (if that makes sense?) also the couple of extra bps wouldn't go amiss.

 

I have the ability to upgrade some of the internals if needed but I'm more worried about the gearbox holding up (Though I'm sure it'll be fine as US specced guns run a bigger spring and are specced for 11.1 lipo's). 

 

Any advice and guidance taken onboard.

 

Cheers,

[Sitting Duck]

1 hour ago, slipperysquid said:

 

When I'm spamming the trigger I sometimes get double shots on semi and I'm hoping that changing the gears will help that while being able to maintain a fast trigger action (if that makes sense?) also the couple of extra bps wouldn't go amiss.

 

 

The ROF will increase and you will get more overspin/double firing

 

If you have the SHS running on 18:1, mosfet, deans blah x 3, then lets assume your rof is about 19/20rps

you will not get 50% higher rof as it never quite works out that way but maybe 35% to 40% tops

so assume a figure of 19/20rps then goes up to say 26 rps on 12:1 SHS motor 7.4v 25c

 

if you are getting overspin/double cycle already then you will likely get even more with a risk of Pre Engagement on full stroke is my gut feeling.

Your overspin issue could be down to late release of trigger trolley & worn COL plus tight pinching switch contacts that make contact too early on the trigger pull meaning the circuit is closed for longer so it runs on for longer - overspin etc....

Shouldn't get overspin that much and deffo not double firing on 20rps imho unless trigger components are worn or releasing late or the odd trigger discipline/timing

Yes 12:1 gears will slow the motor quicker due to higher speed gearing - but speed goes up so the two will unlikely cancel each other out, so overspin will increase & if she is already double firing then expect this to increase on 12:1

 

The figures are not that important - you could be running say stock gears/motor on 11.1v to hit say 20rps

or a tad more as ICS Turbo motors are a bit quicker than most std motors in guns out of the box

normally up to 20rps you should be OK for overspin unless something is worn or up

as you get into twenties then yes you will get overspin unless you mess about a bit

 

What is your present ROF on what battery& if you having issues at 19/20 then forget trying to go faster until those issues are resolved is my gut feeling

[slipperysquid]

Hi, thanks for the reply,

                                     I'm not hitting anywhere near 20rps at the moment. I'm using a Jefftron V2 mosfet which replaces the trigger contacts in favour of a micro switch and it may be my own for fault for the double firing due to short stroking the trigger? doesn't do it all the time. The gun is virtually new (about a month old) and with the gears just sat about I thought I might utilise them and see what happens.

 

My gut feeling is 10-13 rps at the moment? I could be wrong but it really doesn't feel anything like 20. 

 

Battery is a 7.4v 25-50c turnigy 1200mah.

[Sitting Duck]

21 hours ago, slipperysquid said:

 

My gut feeling is 10-13 rps at the moment? I could be wrong but it really doesn't feel anything like 20. 

 

Battery is a 7.4v 25-50c turnigy 1200mah.

 

An average UK G&G will be hitting say 12-13rps out of box with a mehhhh motor

A hot china gun will hit about 11-12rps @ just under 400fps

 

£ for £ or penny for penny - replacing small tamiya to deans is the #1 best thing you can ever do

this alone will increase your rof by about 10% or say 15% mosfet, deans & rewire

(17% might be the absolute max even with very thick 16awg - doubt if you can boost 20%)

 

But it is about 15rps perhaps if a 330fps gun had deans & maybe mosfet so to speak (std 18:1 gears)

A SHS torque (balanced motor) may get you a further increase of about 25% aprox

A SHS speed motor near 50% but stuff does run warm on faster motors & battery drains quicker too

 

So you can get to about 18 to 23rps depending on neodym motor you use on top of deans/mosfet etc....

(very high torque 22tpa or more neodym motors run about same speed as decent stock motor so 15rps)

On shorter guns the spring will be higher to attain fps so these rough figures will be a little lower

On longer barrel guns often they may only need m95 to hit say 340fps so rps will be a round higher etc.....

This is still staying on std 18:1 gear set btw, going to 12:1 will increase this figure by a third/33% say

Then if going nutz, upping the juice to another lipo cell or 11.1v will boost rps by nearly 50% again

(yes you can hit 30+rps on 7.4v SSG (SS  a few teeth), but stuff runs bloody hot on speed motor & 12:1's)

Due to issues on our lower spring guns we get into low/mid twenties and most tend to be content on this

 

ICS motors are quicker than G&G - I'd say 10% depends on motor being compared

but from my experience of only the basic ICS 42W - it deffo had a bit more zest than a long Raider out of box

 

So I doubt if your ICS rof is as low as 10rps - say 14+rps even with tamiya I would say on 7.4v/8.4v battery

 

You can work out the rps using audacity - youtube tutorials on this stuff if you don't have chrono

there are apps like Android BPS Meter but a bit hit n miss

works better on assembled guns than bare box+motor

sometimes it say 54rps, then next it says 4 rps & finally a couple of times say 18.76rps when it plays ball

 

look into trying to gauge your rof perhaps coz 10-13rps if that overspins you got problems with it Cutting off on semi

If the gun is firing that slow - say 12rps with deans & SHS motor then I'd look into the settings

The Jefftron v2 microprocessor might have had the MOTOR SPEED lowered in the programming

if so you may need to reset the sod back to default and reprogram the bastid....

 

https://www.jefftron.net/upload/navod/manual_processor_unit-v2.pdf

 

try to work out the rof and state the motor being used etc....

think the unit might be trying to slow the rof down

if double firing - wonder of COL is operating 101% correctly telling Jefftron what is what etc...