Would Airsoft be bigger in the UK without ukara?

[Lozart]

But that's not UKARA's choosing, that's the law (VCRA). I think that's what @AshOnSnow was indicating. ?

I'm speaking in broad terms and trying to avoid the whole "but UKARA isn't the only defence" bullshit.

And the OPs whole point was that he had to wait for a black RIF because of his age which then caused the entire misunderstanding.

 

[EDcase]

Yeah UKARA isn't perfect but it works and airsoft with RIF's wouldn't exist without it.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Yeah UKARA isn't perfect but it works and airsoft with RIF's wouldn't exist without it...

indeed, it's still a better option than everyone being forced to run 2 tone, or worse that it'd mean *shudders* we'd all have to play paintball.....

 

[Lozart]

I think was the biggest issue iv seen is the laws seriously seriosuly needs to be reworked badly as I get that Airsoft are RIF so they look the same but it seriously needs to be separate and have more clear guidelines etc

What isn't clear? Over 18 with a defence or no black gun. Simple.

 

[Gtech]

I think was the biggest issue iv seen is the laws seriously seriosuly needs to be reworked badly as I get that Airsoft are RIF so they look the same but it seriously needs to be separate and have more clear guidelines etc

It's never going to happen, any rework of the law will only affect us in a more negative manner. The only time this will be revisited is if they want to clamp down further and show the public more fear about guns.

I actually don't see any problems with the law at a high level. You have to be over 18, and a regular player of a skirmish site. 

The problem is the grey areas which we try to scuttle around while still convincing ourselves that we're a self-policing industry.

Yeah UKARA isn't perfect but it works and airsoft with RIF's wouldn't exist without it...

I wouldn't say RIFs wouldn't exist without it. There are plenty of retailers who don't pay the subscription and still check the defence, it just requires a little more work.

UKARA wasn't the only one fighting for us, and they sure didn't pick the entire bill for the lawyers and consultations.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

I actually don't see any problems with the law at a high level. You have to be over 18, and a regular player of a skirmish site. 

indeed, just remember it could always be worse, like all airsoft guns limited to 1 joule....

 

[EDcase]

indeed, just remember it could always be worse, like all airsoft guns limited to 1 joule....

Amazing what careful hop design can do with 1 Joule  

At least we don't have to have orange tips...

The law regarding RIF's certainly isn't going to be relaxed in the future so things can only get worse...

Any miss-use will get negative attention and add another nail in the coffin of airsoft as we know it.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Amazing what careful hop design can do with 1 Joule  

indeed, but it kinda screws up being a sniper when muggins here can dish it straight back with his sig

 

[padraigthesniper]

You dont have to have Ukara if you make your own aeg from parts... 

 

[BigStew]

you don't need UKARA to buy a RIF just proof of defense and building a RIF from parts will probably cost double buying a complete RIF. 

 

[Tommikka]

You dont have to have Ukara if you make your own aeg from parts... 

But you do still need a VCRA defence as assembly is covered by “manufacture”

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/part/2/crossheading/imitation-firearms

 

[padraigthesniper]

But you do still need a VCRA defence as assembly is covered by “manufacture”

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/part/2/crossheading/imitation-firearms

How so? When was the last time a police officer raided someones house because he built a rif because he like fake guns and call of duty... YOU DONT NEED UKARA FOR A DEFENCE lol UKARA lets shops know you have a DEFENCE easy peasy like. If you skirmish and have 3 photos that can prove that or receipts your a skirmisher. PLUS if you occasionally work on videos you have a another defence of use for media content. The police have got legitimate criminals to deal with rather than Dave down the road who watches too much Spec Ops TV Shows and spends his nights reading up on AEG Gearboxes lol F**k all this bulls**t we need better parents and a better culture where kids arent allowed or dont want to be idiots with toy guns and then we dont need to baby sit idiots with laws.

 

[Sacarathe]

Buying a RIF isn't illegal... ?

#troll

Was this thread started by someone that only viewed UKARA through a UKARA shaped lens?

 

[STORMZOMBIES]

Buying a RIF isn't illegal... ?

#troll

Was this thread started by someone that only viewed UKARA through a UKARA shaped lens?

That's supposed to mean what?

 

[padraigthesniper]

Buying a RIF isn't illegal... ?

#troll

Was this thread started by someone that only viewed UKARA through a UKARA shaped lens?

Yeah lol i forgot its just illegal to sell not to buy without a defence UKARA is just the check for the defence made easy so either way its all good

 

[Duff]

I don't have a UKARA number and I've bought both new and second hand, two tone and normal. I have 5 rifs now, 2 of which were purchased from retailers. The one that came two tone I stripped the paint and redid myself, looks fine. Second one I just asked a mate to order it for me on his numbers.

UKARA is needed by retailer, not you. Sites seem to charge differing amounts to add you to a database, what does it actually cost? I bet nothing. I personally don't like how some sites insist you attend a certain amount of games in a set time to obtain it. Not everyone can play that many games within the time specified.

That said I'll probably get mine by end of the year at some point because I'm saving up for a TM Scorpion mod M. I don't see one of those going secondhand anytime soon.

 

[Tommikka]

How so? When was the last time a police officer raided someones house because he built a rif because he like fake guns and call of duty... YOU DONT NEED UKARA FOR A DEFENCE lol UKARA lets shops know you have a DEFENCE easy peasy like. If you skirmish and have 3 photos that can prove that or receipts your a skirmisher. PLUS if you occasionally work on videos you have a another defence of use for media content. The police have got legitimate criminals to deal with rather than Dave down the road who watches too much Spec Ops TV Shows and spends his nights reading up on AEG Gearboxes lol F**k all this bulls**t we need better parents and a better culture where kids arent allowed or dont want to be idiots with toy guns and then we dont need to baby sit idiots with laws.

Not getting caught does not mean it’s legal.

A VCRA defence is required for manufacture, which could be assembly or repainting a two tone and modifying to RIF

I’m not aware of any prosecutions for non compliant sales either.

However you are correct that UKARA is not required as a defence, it’s just one recognises method of showing the airsofter defence

Occasional video making is not a defence.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/37

Those purposes are—



(a)the purposes of a museum or gallery;



(b)the purposes of theatrical performances and of rehearsals for such performances;



(c)the production of films (within the meaning of Part 1 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (c. 48)_see section 5B of that Act);



(d)the production of television programmes (within the meaning of the Communications Act 2003 (c. 21)_see section 405(1) of that Act);



(e)the organisation and holding of historical re-enactments organised and held by persons specified or described for the purposes of this section by regulations made by the Secretary of State;



(f)the purposes of functions that a person has in his capacity as a person in the service of Her Majesty.

(Note that airsoft skirmishing is not a defence under the primary legislation but the Secretary of State can make other provisions and did so for airsoft)

The Home Office are quite keen on paying attention to people claiming defences for film work, especially following a black market arms dealer claiming to work on films and using the secrecy behind the Bond franchise for the lack of his ability to justify his claims

 

[Nick G]

UKARA is needed by retailer, not you. Sites seem to charge differing amounts to add you to a database, what does it actually cost? I bet nothing. I personally don't like how some sites insist you attend a certain amount of games in a set time to obtain it. Not everyone can play that many games within the time specified.

That's interesting I thought the 3 games in not less than 2 months thing was standard. Are some sites insisting on more games ?

 

[Gtech]

That's interesting I thought the 3 games in not less than 2 months thing was standard. Are some sites insisting on more games ?

The Home Office set out a minimum of 3 games in OVER 2 months. That's in the VCRA.

UKARA set the standard that it's 3 games at a single site.

I don't have a UKARA number and I've bought both new and second hand, two tone and normal. I have 5 rifs now, 2 of which were purchased from retailers. The one that came two tone I stripped the paint and redid myself, looks fine. Second one I just asked a mate to order it for me on his numbers.

UKARA is needed by retailer, not you. Sites seem to charge differing amounts to add you to a database, what does it actually cost? I bet nothing. I personally don't like how some sites insist you attend a certain amount of games in a set time to obtain it. Not everyone can play that many games within the time specified.

  

That said I'll probably get mine by end of the year at some point because I'm saving up for a TM Scorpion mod M. I don't see one of those going secondhand anytime soon.

@Duff, sorry to be boring here...BUT.

Technically stripping the paint without a defence may falls under the VCRA as you're converting a IF into a RIF. Remember it's still illegal, however you won't have a defence against prosecution.

Having someone else order the RIF, means they're selling it to you (since money exchanged hands) to someone who doesn't have a defence. The law doesn't set precedence whether this is brand new or second hand. It's still a sale.

Sites have free membership to UKARA, but it's still their time - So, essentially you're paying an admin fee.

In terms of sites insisting you attend a certain amount of games, the law requires 3 games in more than 2 months (and less than a year). This makes you a 'regular attending player', and less likely to be buying the RIF for anything beyond airsoft.

UKARA set out the requirement that it must be at the same site, and that the site must have proper liability business insurance for airsoft skirmishing.

 

[proffrink]

You're not being boring. There are still a lot of people who clearly don't know the basics!