Wat Em Best Tournament Gnu? Yes All My Titles Are Going to Be That Stupid)

[Sitting Duck]

I already have the upgrade kit in the arp.

But since perun is about to release their ETU++ I thought I could plug the upgrade kit I already have into the new gun (mainly for the binary trigger and battery protection), and then wait for the etu++ and install that one in the arp. Or the other way round, you know, they are pretty much the same thing, the new one has a few more functions (that I'll never use anyway).

I can definitely source a C-10 (or a C-21, slightly longer front end for not much more weight), I can actually source that AY thingy too as it's available in my usual San Marino retailer.

A friend of mine just told me he has a spare ETU switch (+ dedicated selector plate) that he is willing to swap with two unbranded shit 363x6.08 barrels. Will pick it up on Friday omw to the office.

I'm not a fan of optical FCUs, imo there is a lot that can go wrong with them compared to more classical mechanical/micro switches.

Stubby stock is coming next week as well, so the externals of whatever gun I buy are sorted.

I'll have a look at these 3 guns (C10, C21, AY thingamajig).

Click to shrink...

AY-0026 is all metal, tinpot metal receiver, slightly qwirky o-ring nozzle/hop unit

and that bit missing off front of box (wouldn't build a DSG or stressy build in that box)

View attachment 63194

AY aka ForceCore v2 gearbox, with chopped front end on top ???

only very very minor radius this box, coz fuck all there to begin with

But after you get past it qwirks/flaws it still is a lot of bang for ya buck

(bit of a cheap bang in quality - but still worth it for "must be metal" peeps)

The real clincher is the rarer than rocking horse shit stubby stock

than the so-so quality - but good bang for ya buck (maybe)

Not QC, so really something SA like C-10 or whatever that nigh on fits the bill on looks/length

(so altering little externally)

If you got the ETU bits n bobs spare then yeah, worth a go like you proposed sounds good

just saying wouldn't buy ETU kit new & then Perun upgrade on top

As said - it needs a selector plate for DMR/single shot only

hence why they include a selector in the G&G kit...

(But your m8 is including the DMR/ETU selector plate so no biggy)

coz it relies on COL popping up/down even in AUTO to inform ETU of sector's position/just fired/cycled

But the way it always completes the cycle & parks is very clever

Sure possible flimsy tiny micro tactile switches - damn fucking small

But then fancy stuff with optical sensors can go all crazy if grease/dirt gets on them or misaligned sensors

So the ETU's 3 x switches can be a little more simplified - with less likely to be effected by flying grease

just don't pull the trigger ultra hard that it wrecks the tiny micro switch on trigger

(The COL micro switch & the rear switch that detects semi/auto mode, are usually OK, it is the trigger one that can fail)

But it is mainly the picky G&G ETU unit, where most of the problems are, thank fuck for Perun

(G&G should just quit making their ETU unit, negotiate with Perun on bulk pricing and just use these instead)

Then they might start selling more ETU guns, once they stop being so unreliable or temperamental

(reclaiming some of their reputation they lost from iffy ETU's)

 

[Impulse]

VSR am bset tornament gnu.

The answer is always VSR. Even when it's a 1J gun.

Yes, it's totally an m4 platform and is lightweight and satisfies every requirement you laid out. Don't question it.

No, I'm not biased.

*glances at multiple VSRs against the wall...*

 

[Skara]

Had a chat with my tech, he suggested to buy a cheap G&G combat machine and go from there.

Now, my local retailer has a G&G CM16 MK18 going for €185 (couple quid cheaper than online). Yet another option. Not a fan of the weight distribution, despite having a plastic DD style handguard, it's a little front heavy.

Option number 5: a lot of people in my club use G&G Combat Machines, so maybe I can trade my honey badger with one of those. So I get the base gun and they get something a little less basic.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Had a chat with my tech, he suggested to buy a cheap G&G combat machine and go from there.

Now, my local retailer has a G&G CM16 MK18 going for €185 (couple quid cheaper than online). Yet another option. Not a fan of the weight distribution, despite having a plastic DD style handguard, it's a little front heavy.

Option number 5: a lot of people in my club use G&G Combat Machines, so maybe I can trade my honey badger with one of those. So I get the base gun and they get something a little less basic.

Click to shrink...

G&G CM18 is a nice gun - bit dated launched late 2014

older big white CM logo on receiver, same metal flip sights as FireHawk

I call it the big brother/Daddy of FH

came with better Blue Ferrite "Powerful Motor", sorta ferrite IFRIT motor

However there is Raider 2.0E - E standing for ETU inside

or the FFR A2...

https://www.softairgames.net/en/m4-m16-stubby/4715-ffr-a2-cm16-ecu-black-gg-gg-egc-16p-fa2-bnb.html

My FFR A2 - the ETU blew when I swapped motor after finding the slow lame std 18k grey motor inside

(so went back to old school trigger/mosfet, new selector plate & 13:1 SHS motor etc...)

G&G now also do a green 17k motor - really G&G, just make the Blue motor (ferrite) & Orange Ifrit (neodym)

(Think there was a red motor, but reckon it was a forerunner to Ifrit, though honestly think 18k/17k should be shelved)

here's a run down comparison of motors...

as said Blue "Powerful" is a decent-ish ferrite motor not far behind the neodym Ifrit

though weaker magnets means a bit less torque & slightly less rof under load maybe

but better than the std 18k motor for sure, and both blue/orange motors are worth keeping for a cost effective build

The Raider 2.0 E and/or the FFR A2 are about the cheapest G&G's with DairyLea ETU inside

(dunno what motor is in Raider 2.0 (non ETU) or the 2.0 E (ETU) guns

a 300 BOT "might" have a basic std mosfet but don't quote me on this & no clue about motor inside

Unsure what is in the KR CQB, I'm guessing it is no mosfet like a CM18, but again dunno what motor is in there

If trading on a used gun, then the motor's inside could be bit tired, needing a service/replacing

but more in case you buy new or trade a hardly used gun perhaps, for a low budget build/project

BUT - they are not QC spring boxes or receivers like SA c-10's etc...

So you are unticking one of your boxes

So me personally I'd still be leaning towards the C-10 or something...

eg: maybe a CM18 type gun like the SA C05...

https://gunfire.com/en/products/sa-c05-core-tm-carbine-replica-half-tan-1152215725.html

or c08, c10, c11, c12 blah blah blah - no fancy pdw stock if changing to stubby

Ideally, some base that matches the length/look you are aiming for without you needing external modding up front

Best G&G option, find somebody with say a FFR A2 to swap with HB perhaps

but as said, you are losing the QC option, which with strict field limits like you got

then the QC option is a strong consideration if aiming for max 0.9999999j but not over

What you are facing is a conundrum of minor trade offs most likely as I said

against time/money/effort & availability/options in buying/trading/part-exchange etc...

So this bit is like option 6 - maybe 7 & even option 8

Reckon you will be up to option 10+ by start of next week

Though you got a few nice working guns to hand, so no need to rush making any decisions

I would keep an eye out for a stubby stock, or some gun with it, to grab, mild tweak, replace with crane & sell on

Then once you got a stubby, then look for light QC donor gun to go nutz on

(other than that, I'd just bide my time as see what comes up)

 

[Skara]

Might have found a kid willing to swap his combat machine (raider? The 10" plastic ris gun) with the HB.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Might have found a kid willing to swap his combat machine (raider? The 10" plastic ris gun) with the HB.

Click to shrink...

Raider 1 is not a bad gun, I prefer the shorter version 233mm over the longer 350mm or so version

(why I like the Cyma CM517 is coz it sits as a cheap Raider copy but in the middle at 295mm barrel)

The Raider/Carbine sight is cast into the outer barrel end - not the two pins to remove front sight

it is actually cast into the outer barrel end itself - some have actually hacked the front sight off coz it can't be removed

The long/short versions have a final end barrel with sight cast into the piece - just a longer or shorter end barrel with cast sight 

The hop/dust cover on Raider v1's is sprung loaded shut, than pull charging handle to release & drop down

this is how it is on V1 Raiders and slightly cheaper M4 carbines in the basic classic Combat Machines

not a biggy - just letting ya know

Bronze bushings likely - check wear & replace with steel ones under the gears

the bronze bushing one under the spur wears rather quickly, if left unchecked it wears out of alignment

then the gearset starts to go & teeth fly off

Nice & easy to work on, weird screws on underneath as you'll know

But mostly to let ya know the hop cover is sprung loaded which some are unaware of on classic CM Raider/Carbine guns

Cheap low fps DSG project:

grab a CM517, remove crap front sight - drift out small pin, remove tiny screw under sight - sight comes off

take out outer barrel, give to a m8 with lathe - cut outer barrel down to say 15mm in front off RIS

cut a 14mm ccw thread, shove in a 233~250mm inner barrel & better hop

re-do box, leave most of it as is, but replace piston with full metal rack - usual mild tweaks

drop in SHS dsg, maybe a m140 spring to get a 290fps or use existing m120 spring for low power German AEG

rewire cheap mosfet

budget light dsg sleeper gun (especially with a stubby stock & 11.1v block battery, yet not too insane wanker gun)

TLDR - Raider is a nice base, a good starter gun to mess about with - just springy dust cover/flap

 

[Skara]

While I wait for the thundercunt kid to decide.

Do I wait for G&G to release their wanker trigger? I kinda want one but from what I've seen they aren't really compatible with anything but HPA boards, but maybe I'm wrong.

Also, since my arp died again yesterday, I could do the following:

1. fix the ARP box (install 13:1s and all that crap);
   
2. slap said box into the CM16 once I get hold of it;
   
3. completely rebuild the arp at a later date (DSG/HPA depending on the budget)
   

 

[Adolf Hamster]

if you aren't limited to semi-only there's not really much call for a long blade trigger and feels like it'd be more a hinderance than a help.

it's pretty much only for the "that's not full auto...." crowd......

 

[Skara]

Thundertwat refused my swap offer

Oh well, back to choosing a base

 

[Sitting Duck]

What went tits up on the ARP ???

Thought you had the perun etu in there ???

Or mech failure ???

Well to each their own, old school or bells & whistles

If a gun cycles at stock 13rps then that is slow to cycle

and prone to lockup if you release trigger too early

Where as if a gun cycles at say 19/20rps then less likely

as it runs quicker to complete the cycle on semi

(unless you are a wanker speedsofter spamming trigger to fuck)

So as long the gun runs around 20rps

& below 30rps then that will do most people

If people want other bits, bells & whistles then is up to them

I'm not bothered, but like to get a gun just nudging the twenties

If possible, take up some trigger slack, not hairline BS

(Can't really do hairline on reg mech trigger)

Get it running sweet & a bit snappy on mild amps & that's it for me

All guns have their flaws, so picking a base gun will be open to debate

There is a lot to be said for a steady gun that is reliable

Over another faster/more whistles one that is prone to failure

No worries, you got the HB & now ARP to service

So you got enough to keep you busy

No real need to rush into another project whilst you got a couple needing attention

Wait n see, see how it all goes

 

[Skara]

No clue what went wrong, at some point it started to sound shit and started misfeeding.

I suspect it's the plastic piston that didn't like 24+ RPS along with a tappet plate that's worked way past its retirement period, can't tell until Saturday.

I found out that the San Marino retailer I usually buy from does trade-ins. Sent them a couple of pictures of the Honey Badger, let's see how much they value it. In case the quote is decent (say around the €100/120 mark), I might "step up" and buy a wildhog.

I have handled one from a teammate and I found it to be reasonably balanced even with a metal handguard (which, unfortunately, is keymod rather than m-lok but heh, it's a relatively easy fix). Or a CM16 SLR, my club's president uses one as a backup and to be fair, it's really light for the length!

I am also considering a Perun Optical as an alternative to the ETU + upgrade kit. I want to try it out, it's obviously not a Titan but it has all the features I need (binary trigger, battery protection, full cycle completion to avoid lockups). Plus if I get the right trigger I can theoretically hair pull the fuck out of it.

A wanker gun, but not quite wank

Hopefully it makes sense.

 

[Skara]

Shop quoted it €40.

Yeah, sure, imma spend €15 to send you the gun so I can save €25 off a €400 order. Okay mate lol.

 

[Skara]

Another "update".

After failing to find someone willing to swap a CM16 with my AM-013 (I have one last try, then I'm done EDIT: last try failed), I'm once again looking at bases.

As of now:

Another Specna C-02 (cheapest complete gun):

Pros

• Polymer body
  
• Very good rotary hop chamber
  
• QC Gearbox with good internals out of the box 
  

Cons

• Will require a complete new front end
  

G&G CM16 Raider 2.0:

Pros

• Polymer body (newer version so it's interchangeable with the ARP upper should the need arise)
  
• Polymer handguard
  
• Relatively low weight
  

Cons

• shit stock bushings (copper)
  
• no QC spring guide
  
• crappy stone age hop unit
  

Specna Arms SA-C20:

Pros

• Polymer body
  
• Very good rotary hop chamber
  
• QC Gearbox with good internals out of the box
  
• I like the locking mechanism of the handguard
  

Cons

• not so lightweight at 2.5 kilograms
  
• A bit too long for my needs (320mm inner barrel)
  
• Not easy to find
  
• Metal handguard adds a tiny bit of unnecessary weight
  

Specna Arms SA-C21:

Pros

• Polymer body
  
• Very good rotary hop chamber
  
• QC Gearbox with good internals out of the box
  
• Same handguard locking mechanism
  

Cons

• 2.4kg for a gun this short? I get that the PDW stock is almost entirely made of metal, but still seems a lot! 
  
• 190mm inner might require a harder spring (m110?) to have a 1J output
  
• Not really easy to source
  
• Metal handguard adds a tiny bit of unnecessary weight
  

G&G CM16 SRS/7" WildHog:

Pros

• Polymer body (newer version so it's interchangeable with the ARP upper should the need arise)
  
• The front end appears to be very lightweight and the gun feels balanced
  
• ETU (idk if I should mark it as a pro)
  

Cons

• Quite high price tag for a base
  
• No QC gearbox
  
• Shit stock bushings (copper)
  

G&G CM16 SRL/9" WildHog:

Pros

• Polymer body (newer version so it's interchangeable with the ARP upper should the need arise)
  
• The front end appears to be somehow lightweight and the gun feels balanced despite being 9"
  
• ETU (idk if I should mark it as a pro)
  

Cons

• Really stretching the budget, considering I'm gonna throw away all the internals
  
• No QC gearbox
  
• Shit stock bushings (copper)
  

I won't go over €220/230 for a base, because at that point I might as well build my own gun from scrap.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Another "update".

After failing to find someone willing to swap a CM16 with my AM-013 (I have one last try, then I'm done EDIT: last try failed), I'm once again looking at bases.

As of now:

Another Specna C-02 (cheapest complete gun):

Pros

• Polymer body
  
• Very good rotary hop chamber
  
• QC Gearbox with good internals out of the box 
  

Cons

• Will require a complete new front end
  

G&G CM16 Raider 2.0:

Pros

• Polymer body (newer version so it's interchangeable with the ARP upper should the need arise)
  
• Polymer handguard
  
• Relatively low weight
  

Cons

• shit stock bushings (copper)
  
• no QC spring guide
  
• crappy stone age hop unit
  

Specna Arms SA-C20:

Pros

• Polymer body
  
• Very good rotary hop chamber
  
• QC Gearbox with good internals out of the box
  
• I like the locking mechanism of the handguard
  

Cons

• not so lightweight at 2.5 kilograms
  
• A bit too long for my needs (320mm inner barrel)
  
• Not easy to find
  
• Metal handguard adds a tiny bit of unnecessary weight
  

Specna Arms SA-C21:

Pros

• Polymer body
  
• Very good rotary hop chamber
  
• QC Gearbox with good internals out of the box
  
• Same handguard locking mechanism
  

Cons

• 2.4kg for a gun this short? I get that the PDW stock is almost entirely made of metal, but still seems a lot! 
  
• 190mm inner might require a harder spring (m110?) to have a 1J output
  
• Not really easy to source
  
• Metal handguard adds a tiny bit of unnecessary weight
  

G&G CM16 SRS/7" WildHog:

Pros

• Polymer body (newer version so it's interchangeable with the ARP upper should the need arise)
  
• The front end appears to be very lightweight and the gun feels balanced
  
• ETU (idk if I should mark it as a pro)
  

Cons

• Quite high price tag for a base
  
• No QC gearbox
  
• Shit stock bushings (copper)
  

G&G CM16 SRL/9" WildHog:

Pros

• Polymer body (newer version so it's interchangeable with the ARP upper should the need arise)
  
• The front end appears to be somehow lightweight and the gun feels balanced despite being 9"
  
• ETU (idk if I should mark it as a pro)
  

Cons

• Really stretching the budget, considering I'm gonna throw away all the internals
  
• No QC gearbox
  
• Shit stock bushings (copper)
  

I won't go over €220/230 for a base, because at that point I might as well build my own gun from scrap.

Click to shrink...

I'd look at the C-12 SA - about a 229mm barrel...

Either normal version with crane stock bit cheaper

Drop on a stubby if you find one

Or the PDW version with nifty stock - but more expensive

As said it is gonna be trade off no matter what

But gotta look at pros n cons,

Spend time/money only where needed

EDIT - maybe the C05 with 12%  off GF-SLADEAIRSOFT-163

comes out at € 124:92 plus GF shipping (and fees like paypal - bastards)

maybe near € 140 but maybe one of cheapest options...View attachment 63385

That is about my best option, nice length, suppressor/flash hider looks just right at the end

yeah I'd change little & just tweak the internals I guess to my spec

However - there are a few options from your local retailer...

Range of Specna Arms...

https://www.softairgames.net/en/ricerca?submit_search=&search_query=specna+arms&orderby=price&orderway=asc&p=9

& 6 PDW Stock Gun options, 3 of which have X-ASR installed (but top of budget)

https://www.softairgames.net/en/m4-m16-stubby/23441-electric-rifle-sa-c12-assault-replica-m4-short-keymod-pdw-two-tone-core-specna-arms-spe-01-027699.html

https://www.softairgames.net/en/m4-m16-stubby/23437-electric-rifle-sa-c07-rra-logo-assault-replica-m4-noveske-cqb-keymod-pdw-black-core-specna-arms-spe-01-027694.html

https://www.softairgames.net/en/m4-m16-stubby/23438-electric-rifle-sa-c07-rra-logo-assault-replica-m4-noveske-cqb-keymod-pdw-two-tone-core-specna-arms-spe-01-027695.html

X-ASR:

https://www.softairgames.net/en/m4-m16-stubby/20022-electric-rifle-sa-e10-edge-rra-m4-stubby-killer-pdw-replica-black-specna-arms-spe-01-026715.html

https://www.softairgames.net/en/m4-m16-stubby/20024-electric-rifle-sa-e12-edge-m4-short-keymod-pdw-replica-black-specna-arms-spe-01-026717.html

https://www.softairgames.net/en/m4-m16-stubby/23424-electric-rifle-sa-e21-edge-m4-m-lok-rex-short-pdw-replica-chaos-grey-specna-arms-spe-01-027067.html

 

[Skara]

Shit, didn't see you edited the post

I've been busy trying to sell the honey badger, got a few people who seemed to be interested, but then declined because reasons.

I now seem to have found someone who's really interested in it, I'm waiting for the PayPal payment.

I haven't decided yet on which base I want.

I have found this, though.

A hair more expensive than the Specnas, but retains most of the features I want.

Comes with Evolution's ETU but it's getting binned real fast in favour of a more serious one (read Perun Optical or ETU + Upgrade kit).

The gearbox looks like a Specna, but in orange, the hop unit seems to be the exact same thing.

It mentions 2.3 kilograms and has a metal buffer tube. Which will be thrown out the window in favour of the fixed stubby stock I bought the other day

Although the actual stock mounting worries me a little being a hair short (could be me, I think Specnas are the same).

Can't figure what the barrel length is, but looking at the rail it appears to be around 9", I like the anti-rotation lugs on the handguard.

Overall it looks like a Specna but with some tiny "improvements" here and there.

Also, on EI's site it mentions steel bushings, on SG it says steel bearings ? I'm doing a confuse.

Any thoughts on this thing?

 

[Tackle]

I've been busy trying to sell the honey badger, got a few people who seemed to be interested, but then declined because reasons.

?

Click to shrink...

Lol, they've probably been on here & seen all the nice things you've said about it previously ?

 

[Skara]

Lol, they've probably been on here & seen all the nice things you've said about it previously ?

Click to shrink...

nah, just Macks material, dreamers wanting the gun for €50 posted.

 

[Asomodai]

Shit, didn't see you edited the post

I've been busy trying to sell the honey badger, got a few people who seemed to be interested, but then declined because reasons.

I now seem to have found someone who's really interested in it, I'm waiting for the PayPal payment.

I haven't decided yet on which base I want.

I have found this, though.

A hair more expensive than the Specnas, but retains most of the features I want.

Comes with Evolution's ETU but it's getting binned real fast in favour of a more serious one (read Perun Optical or ETU + Upgrade kit).

The gearbox looks like a Specna, but in orange, the hop unit seems to be the exact same thing.

It mentions 2.3 kilograms and has a metal buffer tube. Which will be thrown out the window in favour of the fixed stubby stock I bought the other day

Although the actual stock mounting worries me a little being a hair short (could be me, I think Specnas are the same).

Can't figure what the barrel length is, but looking at the rail it appears to be around 9", I like the anti-rotation lugs on the handguard.

Overall it looks like a Specna but with some tiny "improvements" here and there.

Also, on EI's site it mentions steel bushings, on SG it says steel bearings ? I'm doing a confuse.

Any thoughts on this thing?

Click to shrink...

It's the same as the Double Eagles that are for sale on TG. https://www.taiwangun.com/en/carbines-rifles/0,double-eagle?ias=1&red=0

There was a review here on the really small one a little while ago. 

 

[Skara]

Somehow managed to sell the HB, a bit disappointed but still made €100 that will go in this project (it's half a base rifle).

I've had my eye on that Double Eagle 904G for a while, until I discovered the receiver is actually proprietary (the rear is carved to only accept the dedicated HB stock).

There is a version with the standard buffer tube connector but it's out of stock at the moment.

Anyway, back to the impossible task of making me happy.

https://gunfire.com/en/products/rra-sa-c08-core-tm-carbine-replica-full-tan-1152221427.html

This is what I've settled on.

20 grams heavier than the C-05 (2120 vs 2100), €5 more expensive, but has a full length barrel (the c-05 uses the suppressor as a inner barrel cover) and overall I like it more than the 05.

The rail is keymod, but heh, no biggie, i also have this stuck somewhere between china and my shitty customs on my way (in Bologna as I type), which I reckon will bring the overall weight down to sub 2 kilograms at full load (I'm pretty sure the weights listed include the empty magazine and battery) and still fit because it's half an inch shorter than the outer barrel.

Now, super duper important question:

which colour?

 

[Sitting Duck]

if there was a black/tan version then you wouldn't face this colour issue...

Actually that is not quite correct...

The G&G CM18 comes as black & tan or tan & black

To avoid the issue as which one is best - I bought both

but then I do have OCD & many other issues too

the 904G is back in stock but I'm really really torn if I will be buying much

partly coz I got too much shit already

but also coz I'm really trying to refrain from buying more shit from China due to COVID etc...

Don't get me wrong, I could easily blow hundreds on peew peew, new vape crap (ex-smoker)

plus many many other bits of throw away crap in our throw away world today

( maybe even environmental green recycle crap issues ??? )

But really I'm refraining or cutting back on enriching China quite as much as I used to

(will make fuck all difference tbh, but just my thoughts at present)

Very difficult to maintain at times & very tempted to grab a 904G

but will see if I submit to those Chinese Demon Dragons of peew peew