The 'How Did Your Airsoft Day Go? Thread

[Cannonfodder]

they are incapable of accepting a truth or a fact.

Just like you're incapable of accepting the fact you're posting bullshit again. I've had similar looking bruises to that from AEG and GBB guns.

hear that Anzio have now made HPA limits lower

Please cite your sources

As others have posted, if you're going to get all pissy over getting shot in a game which involves shooting each other then maybe you need to get another hobby

You can't make this shit up,

But you just did

 

[Colin Allen]

Anzio have had lower power limits for HPA for a while; overall, their FPs limits do not make much sense.

 

[concretesnail]

Anzio has had hpa limits listed separately for a while but and there on site measurements have been consistent when I've been there. However their website doesn't help matters as it lists limits then maximum variances up to a hard limit. The language used makes it more confusing than it needs to be, like they are trying to show a rule of thumb for builders and that fact some rifs chrono differently due to weather or drying seals etc. 

 

[Esoterick]

I thought HPA was considered the most consistent FPS wise? The only almost certainly overpowered hit I ever took in the 100 or so games I've played was most likely a CO2 gun with a new bulb, made me consider stopping for the day it was so painful(relative to normal hits) - felt like being shot with a coin and left a bruise the size of one...

I don't see their rules mention CO2 at all outside of launchers so are they just fine despite the new bulb issue?

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Anzio has had hpa limits listed separately for a while but and there on site measurements have been consistent when I've been there. However their website doesn't help matters as it lists limits then maximum variances up to a hard limit. The language used makes it more confusing than it needs to be, like they are trying to show a rule of thumb for builders and that fact some rifs chrono differently due to weather or drying seals etc. 

Sounds needlessly complicated.

Limit in joules for regular/dmr/sniper, strip of tape converted to fps for common bb weights, chrono on the players game weight with a stash of speedloaders to verify suspect cases, follow up with in-game spot checks and most importantly actually enforce bans for infringement.

I thought HPA was considered the most consistent FPS wise? The only almost certainly overpowered hit I ever took in the 100 or so games I've played was most likely a CO2 gun with a new bulb, made me consider stopping for the day it was so painful(relative to normal hits) - felt like being shot with a coin and left a bruise the size of one...

A well dialled in hpa setup can be very consistent, emphasis on the well dialled in. Needless to say sub-par tuning can have an hpa being every big as inconsistent as an aeg.

The issue comes with the phenomenon of joule creep, which also affects gbb guns (and some modified spring bolt actions when heavyweight pistons are involved) whereby the gun can chrono entirely legitimately on say .2g, but then with no other modification output more energy simply by switching to a heavier ammo (the fps will be lower but not by as much as the same switch in an aeg), hence my above caveat of chronographing on players game weight.

 

[Colin Allen]

Anzio has had hpa limits listed separately for a while but and there on site measurements have been consistent when I've been there. However their website doesn't help matters as it lists limits then maximum variances up to a hard limit. The language used makes it more confusing than it needs to be, like they are trying to show a rule of thumb for builders and that fact some rifs chrono differently due to weather or drying seals etc. 

They also list lower joule limits for anything over 0.20g than they do for 0.20g, which is bizarre.

 

[Esoterick]

The issue comes with the phenomenon of joule creep, which also affects gbb guns (and some modified spring bolt actions when heavyweight pistons are involved) whereby the gun can chrono entirely legitimately on say .2g, but then with no other modification output more energy simply by switching to a heavier ammo (the fps will be lower but not by as much as the same switch in an aeg), hence my above caveat of chronographing on players game weight.

Any site that thinks they have their finger on the pulse with chrono but insists on only testing with 0.2g makes me roll my eyes because of this. The other silly thing with doing so is that guns with really strong hop setups can be buggered up by firing lightweight BBs so you either risk that or can't play at that site using it - I have a gun with an R hop that applies a reasonable amount of hop with the dial turned to the lowest setting.

Joule creep was fairly well documented on the Airsoft sniper forum 5-10 years ago, so there's no excuse.

 

[Impulse]

I run a gas bolt action and I'm pretty sure if I chronoed on a .2 I would be something like 1.4J, while on a .45 or .48 I'm around 2.2J without changing anything else.

 

[concretesnail]

Limit in joules for regular/dmr/sniper, strip of tape converted to fps for common bb weights, chrono on the players game weight with a stash of speedloaders to verify suspect cases, follow up with in-game spot checks and most importantly actually enforce bans for infringement.

That's basically what happens at anzio but I know first and only have other sites with specific rules, indoor cqb etc. I think the website tries to umbrella it for all sites and gets messy. It needs rewrite, a case of keep it simple.

Display the site limit in joules for each class and the chrono rules. Eg.

Chrono on game weight, if it's over the limit back in the car it goes etc.

Say that there will be Spot checks and the consequences of failing a check in game. Done.

 

[JVacation]

Good day today. Gameplay was competitive and overall was enjoyable. There were a couple of complainers when playing. Due to the thickness of the trees, bushes and nettles full auto was a need sometimes to get through. Admittedly this means sometimes you get hit multiple times but that's part of it. These complainers would always mumble and groan under their breath as they walked back to spawn such as "learn your trigger discipline mate" and stuff like that. 

It always puts everyone on edge when that happens as you never know if they are just going to click and cause a big issue. 

Overall though thoroughly enjoyed today more than the site I went to last weekend which didn't chrono anyone until they chronoed 4 people after lunch and played hardly any airsoft at. 

 

[TacticalWaifu]

That's basically what happens at anzio but I know first and only have other sites with specific rules, indoor cqb etc. I think the website tries to umbrella it for all sites and gets messy. It needs rewrite, a case of keep it simple.a check in game. Done.

"Individual sites may have lower BB weight limits but company wide 6mm 0.48g is the absolute max. Vault has .25g and Mill .28g currently as max for example."

They literally say individual sites may have lower limits -- the only way to make this "simpler" website-wise would be to have all sites' individual limits listed, but that could be information overload for some folks.

Saying that covers people who turn up thinking .48 is fine everywhere, then cry when they can't CQB with it. It's already simple.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Any site that thinks they have their finger on the pulse with chrono but insists on only testing with 0.2g makes me roll my eyes because of this.

Same, but then the number of times i've chrono'd on the limit with .48's to be told my gun's shooting low because they're reading the fps and not the joule readout.....

The other silly thing with doing so is that guns with really strong hop setups can be buggered up by firing lightweight BBs so you either risk that or can't play at that site using it - I have a gun with an R hop that applies a reasonable amount of hop with the dial turned to the lowest setting.

Not encountered that one much, although mostly because the sites hadn't evolved that far.....

Joule creep was fairly well documented on the Airsoft sniper forum 5-10 years ago, so there's no excuse.

Tbf kinetic energy is (unless they've changed the curriculum) still taught in schools yet we still have sites that struggle to understand the difference between velocity and energy.

Yeah i get not everyone's an engineer or even an enthusiast but as you say so much is documented, the conversion charts and calculators freely available on the internet and the majority of chronographs even do the conversion for you and that still aint enough.

That's basically what happens at anzio but I know first and only have other sites with specific rules, indoor cqb etc. I think the website tries to umbrella it for all sites and gets messy. It needs rewrite, a case of keep it simple.

I can understand lower limits for energy at cqb sites. Whilst i don't personally subscribe to the idea of heavy weights being an issue when fired at lower energy i can understand that a cqb site limiting ammo weight as an expedient means of avoiding joule creep issues especially when the site environment (especially indoor close range) means that realistically there's no benefit to the heavies anyway.

As long as on a per-site basis the rules for that site are well signposted, and enforced as advertised then it's up to folk showing up to prepare for that.

 

[Skullchewer]

Are we really still pandering to the absurdities of the "HPA BAD" discussion? ? (spoilers: I only scan read, apologies if I got the wrong impression).

ANYWAY 

Another storming day at Red Alert. 

The VFC G3 GBBR continues to be my flavour of the month, paired with my TM Deagle I got some lovely kills.  

Got lit up plenty, but all totally fair, except for the team kill grenade from one of my friends ?

Ran far too much in the escort the bomb game, and I am expecting to feel every day of my 52 years tomorrow, but it was so worth it. 

Saw another Vorsk VPM1 on the field, and I'm really impressed by those things. I'll be interested to see how they perform in the long term. 

I set the fastest time in the monthly Attack Sense pistol range competition with my Deagle! A respectable 9.1 seconds!
WOOOOO!
Then someone set an 8.7 ? Bugger.
Fastest time at the end of the month wins a free game day.

The current site record stands at 8.4, but as that was set by the range marshal it's not a competition time. 
Next weekend I'll be trying to shave that second to an 8.1

There's another Battlesim LITE next weekend, where I will not be using the G3, as 20 round mags are pretty restrictive, and gas rifle mags are extremely difficult to reload on the field. 

Looking forward to it, going to be a selection of military vehicles in the battle.

Today our group got our car park set up just right ??

View attachment 111337

 

[AirSniper]

Just like you're incapable of accepting the fact you're posting bullshit again. I've had similar looking bruises to that from AEG and GBB guns.

Please cite your sources

As others have posted, if you're going to get all pissy over getting shot in a game which involves shooting each other then maybe you need to get another hobby

But you just did

What... from 30 meters? I seriously doubt that.

 

[JustMark]

I'd been a bit disenchanted the last couple of times I went to my usual site, lots of moaning players which pulls the mood down and then I got one of my front teeth busted on a battlesim day which sucked.  Wear a mask people!

Anyway I'm pleased to report that yesterday was hugely enjoyable despite my team getting roughly handled throughout the day.  We had quite a lot of timid players and no Major Pushup to encourage them!

I took my new (I know) Specna Core M249 and was pleasantly surprised by it.  I was able to suppress the other team pretty consistently though quite a lot of the time I was doing it so I could move as opposed to my team mates moving.  It does lack enough range to compete with some of the better weapons on the field though which made advancing a little tricky at times.  I wasn't quite prepared for the different weight distribution though, it got to be pretty hard work advancing with it shouldered.  More time in the gym required

Highlights include a classic YouTube "M249 SAW Destroys Enemy Team" style victory on defence against a crew of five or six that just couldn't move once I'd pinned them and I whittled them down one-by-one after that, I was then promptly shot obviously since I was loudly shouting for support that never came!  I got a bush-wookie out from under a bush, my first sniper taken out too.  In another first I crossed a path and started laying down fire from the safety of some ferns until the ferns stabbed me...  I came back as quickly as I could and asked repeatedly if the sniper in the ferns was gone to a chorus of yeses even when I shot the bush to indicate here he was.  I advanced back to where I was and the ferns shot me with a pistol...   

So despite being on the losing side all day I had a great day with some superb moments, no grumbling about hit taking or cheating this weekend which was good and a nice feeling of sportsmanship endured

 

[AirSniper]

They literally say individual sites may have lower limits -- the only way to make this "simpler" website-wise would be to have all sites' individual limits listed, but that could be information overload for some folks.

Saying that covers people who turn up thinking .48 is fine everywhere, then cry when they can't CQB with it. It's already simple.

The legal maximum is 1.3 Joules with an AEG, AEP, CO2, HPA rig, that means 373fps on 0.2g and all sites I have been to limit their site speed limits to 350fps max or 1.1 Joules.  That means on a 0.25g bb the fps limit is 335fps on 1.3 Joules but given that the weight is higher, that most sites operate a 1.1 Joule~ish limit, brings that down to around 303fps.

The difference being that HPA carries power better, I have never had broken skin, bruises from or bleeding from an AEG even at point blank range, however, with HPA I have had wounds that bleed, bruise and equipment broken and broken fingers from HPA as well as having my eye protection broken.

It seems that HPA players can't accept the facts. People saying I am posting rubbish again are talking out their rears too.

Unless the responsible HPA players get a grip of the problem players and point out that they are a problem in the game, it won't be long before government legislates for and imposes limits on HPA or bans it. What would you prefer? Lowering your Joule power or have some pencil neck in whitehall ban your equipment and you have to start all over again?

 

[Skara]

What... from 30 meters? I seriously doubt that.

I'll take the bait.

1J of energy is 1J of energy, it doesn't matter if it's fired from an AEG, GBB, HPA or springer, it's still 1J of energy.

I've seen teeth shattered from 1J hits at 30 metres, I've had BB shards get into in my eye the last time I used mesh (the gun was a stock TM recoil, so 0.8J) from 30 metres.

HPA doesn't sting more than AEG given the energy output is the same, if you think so then I suggest to read a physics book of your choice.

 

[AirSniper]

Are you on blood thinners?

Edit.

Wrong person ?

No, just HPA hits.

For those suggesting I am in the wrong game, think again, I have been shot point blank in the back, arms, hands, face and got nothing like what I get off HPA, my own son tri shot shotgun point blank in the neck (a springer) nothing but red marks.

HPA from 20 or 30 meters, I get nasty welts, broken skin, bruising and have had broken fingers.

The last game I went to and got those injuries at, the 4 kids playing who were guests of a member at a members only day were complaining about how some of the shots were really hurting compared to others that just stung.

Its not just me, its other players that complain.

The issue is that there is a core of HPA players that don't like taking their hits, pad themselves up as well but don't mind dishing out the pain, so any suggestion that I am in the wrong game, think again, its the HPA players that insist on ruining hot rigs, the funny thing is the other HPA players at the same game, their hots didn't hurt half as much as those guys that were running hot guns...

 

[Skullchewer]

I have never had broken skin, bruises from or bleeding from an AEG even at point blank range

This about sums up this guy.

Just a stream of repeated bollocks.

Finally putting him on ignore, because he keeps trying to turn this thread into his personal gripe thread, despite having created threads specifically for the topic. 

I'd rather read about game days that people can write about objectively.

The issue is that there is a core of HPA players

At the site you play at. 

Everyone keeps telling you to play elsewhere. 

 

[Madhouse]

The issue is that there is a core of HPA players that don't like taking their hits, pad themselves up as well but don't mind dishing out the pain, so any suggestion that I am in the wrong game, think again, its the HPA players that insist on ruining hot rigs, the funny thing is the other HPA players at the same game, their hots didn't hurt half as much as those guys that were running hot guns...

Finally we get to the bottom of all this, your issue isn't HPA ... it's that some people are dicks.

Got some bad news for you, there are dicks everywhere, some of them even use AEGs and not all of them drive BMW's and Audi's either.

Can we get back to talking about people having fun now?