Running a team

[Rogerborg]

we'll lay some covering fire for you

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And if you're very, very lucky, the enemy might even realise that you're doing so.

There's only two things that I can think of that really make a difference in open field airsoft: identifying targets for your teammates; and moving in a co-ordinated fashion, whether that's flanks moving alternatively to draw attention from each other, or whether it's fixing bayonets and all charging together for pretend-death or pretend-glory.

 

[Seth_Erebor]

As the old saying goes “there’s no such thing as a free lunch” in my book ‘free training course’ = a bag of tits ! If a person's skills are high enough they warrant being able to teach others then they don’t just ‘give them away’ you get paid for it , so if someone IS giving them away for free then they either really suck at the job or they're a Walt . 

Just my two penneth worth on the subject .?

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Would you go on a Squad Leader training course at a price you deem reasonable?

And if you're very, very lucky, the enemy might even realise that you're doing so.

There's only two things that I can think of that really make a difference in open field airsoft: identifying targets for your teammates; and moving in a co-ordinated fashion, whether that's flanks moving alternatively to draw attention from each other, or whether it's fixing bayonets and all charging together for pretend-death or pretend-glory.

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Why would they not realise? I can guess, just want to know what you're thinking.

 

[Druid799]

Would you go on a Squad Leader training course at a price you deem reasonable?

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Nope wouldn’t do one for any reason to be honest , as I still stand by what I said previously ‘proper’ military tactic just can’t be achieved in Airsoft , with all the best intention civilians just haven’t the discipline to pull it off you’ll get teams sort of working together but I’d lay money no mater how organised they may think they are within 15mins of the marshal shouting  “game on !” The whole team will be split too the four corners of the game site and you’ll only interact with your team mate on random occasions untill game over .

 

[Immortal]

..... within 15mins of the marshal shouting  “game on !” The whole team will be split too the four corners of the game site and you’ll only interact with your team mate on random occasions untill game over . 

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That pretty much describes 99% of the games I've played. Occasionally when there are only say 3 of us it may come together for a while. However when all 12 of us turn up there's talk of this and that but as you said once it starts I generally only see them when respawning.

I don't think it's any ones fault, it's just the way it goes.

I'm normally on a VSR so rarely firing from the same point as my mates. I probably see them more down the scope than side by side when I do spot them.

I don't even know if they see each other.... lol :lol:

 

[Druid799]

I don't think it's any ones fault, it's just the way it goes.

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Nail squarely on the head bud ! It is no ones fault just the nature of the beast , if it’s a ‘capture the building’ sort of game where the other team are all in one location and the objective of the game is to hold or capture the building then yes you could use some team tactics quite successfully (me and the lads on my team we’ll be talking on comm’s to coordinate simultaneous breaches at separate points or telling each other where we are inside or what not)  ,  but once were in open country again we soon get split up and we’ve been a team together for well over 10yrs so I’m confident I can say we all know each other’s playing style as well as our own but we still break apart and just bump into each other on random occasions throughout the game .

 Only team member I’d say I do stick with is the one who’s also my best mate (but not the reason) he’s ex-forces as well , when ever me and Daz are on the field we just seam to ‘click’ together , funny thing is we hardly communicate at all (I talk to the others a lot more than him) we just ‘know’ what each other’s up too and if we do need to communicate it’s all hand signals any way . 

 

[Samurai]

UK skirmishes are not suitable for squads.

Where I come from, the games are always squad based (or CQB but I don't play CQB) and when a squad member bleeds out, the whole squad goes to respawn, so it's always in one group. We did training days where we practised movement in patrol and under fire, etc.

We had training days where we invited an instructor who we learned real firearm tactics from, and training days where one of us prepared and taught a specific topic to the rest of us. But as I said, the UK is not suitable for this because skirmish.

 

[Rogerborg]

Why would they not realise [that you're giving covering fire]?

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You're either hitting them, in which case it's fire-for-effect, or you're missing, in which case it's a toss up whether they even notice in woodland.  Half the time that you think you're on target, you're falling yards short or hopping over.  Even if you are bang on, you'll need to hit something hard and ideally hollow for it to be obvious.

I'm not saying that suppressive fire never works.  Of course it sometimes does, especially if you're pouring it into a wooden structure.

In before "All true operators always notice when we're under fire", we axiomatically notice it when we notice it.  However, consider the possibility that you can't notice what you didn't notice, and you could be taking fire without ever realising it.

 

[Seth_Erebor]

Nope wouldn’t do one for any reason to be honest , as I still stand by what I said previously ‘proper’ military tactic just can’t be achieved in Airsoft , with all the best intention civilians just haven’t the discipline to pull it off you’ll get teams sort of working together but I’d lay money no mater how organised they may think they are within 15mins of the marshal shouting  “game on !” The whole team will be split too the four corners of the game site and you’ll only interact with your team mate on random occasions untill game over .

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Well you're ex-forces so not much more for you to learn, however, for civilians there is a lot of knowledge that can be taught.

Airsoft is not just about shooting each other, just as the Army isn't only about killing.

When you take a step back, for Mil-Sims anyway, there is room for many skills to be picked up.

• Navigation
  
• First Aid (The principals at least)
  
• Fitness
  
• Field craft
  
• and so much more
  

Who does not want team mates with those core skills?

When a recruit goes to Catterick, they might as well be a baby, but they are transformed into a competent soldier.

New players are the same, where should they go to learn? Experience is great, but performs best on a foundation of education.

 

[Immortal]

where should they go to learn?

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On the Xbox... :lol:

 

[Seth_Erebor]

On the Xbox... :lol:

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Which game? Battlefield 4? Op Flashpoint?

 

[Immortal]

Battlefield V...

...Bit more in depth than the previous game and veering closer to modern weapons but still with the simplicity of the old world.

Saying that OP Flashpoint was amazing. I was there for it's launch. They had 4 Serbian soldiers to direct them in it's design.

At the time it was unique and more of a simulation than a game. Quite an interesting game to say the least.

 

[Rogerborg]

Battlefield V

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Warpainted fem-borgs FTW.

 

[Skara]

You're either hitting them, in which case it's fire-for-effect, or you're missing, in which case it's a toss up whether they even notice in woodland.  Half the time that you think you're on target, you're falling yards short or hopping over.  Even if you are bang on, you'll need to hit something hard and ideally hollow for it to be obvious.

I'm not saying that suppressive fire never works.  Of course it sometimes does, especially if you're pouring it into a wooden structure.

In before "All true operators always notice when we're under fire", we axiomatically notice it when we notice it.  However, consider the possibility that you can't notice what you didn't notice, and you could be taking fire without ever realising it.

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You don't necessarily need to hit or reach up to them.

The point of suppression is to keep the enemy's head down.

And trust me, when you plug a drum mag and hold down the trigger only a few masochists would peak out of cover xD

Loud guns also help.

An ARP9 can be a quite effective support weapon just by the noise it emits

 

[Rogerborg]

And trust me, when you plug a drum mag and hold down the trigger only a few masochists would peak out of cover

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With genuine respect, this is exactly the attitude of which I am speaking.  A drum mag doesn't increase your RoF or range or accuracy or the observability of your BBs.  If your target is aware that they're under fire, they'll go to ground.  If they're not, they won't.  A few rounds nearby that they can see or hear is sufficient.  Beyond that, if you're filling the air with BBs but not actually hitting them, you're mostly, well... pleasuring yourself.

There's nothing wrong with that, but your target may not be as as impressed with the volume of your ballsy ejaculate as you are.

Loud guns also help.

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See, there I do agree.  If you're suppressing / distracting, then getting your target's attention helps.

I'm running an amplifier on my already snappy MP5K, mostly for the laughs of making folk jump in CQB.

 

[Seth_Erebor]

With genuine respect, this is exactly the attitude of which I am speaking.  A drum mag doesn't increase your RoF or range or accuracy or the observability of your BBs.  If your target is aware that they're under fire, they'll go to ground.  If they're not, they won't.  A few rounds nearby that they can see or hear is sufficient.  Beyond that, if you're filling the air with BBs but not actually hitting them, you're mostly, well... pleasuring yourself.

There's nothing wrong with that, but your target may not be as as impressed with the volume of your ballsy ejaculate as you are.

See, there I do agree.  If you're suppressing / distracting, then getting your target's attention helps.

I'm running an amplifier on my already snappy MP5K, mostly for the laughs of making folk jump in CQB.

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100% right and very funny, Sir.

 

[Druid799]

Well you're ex-forces so not much more for you to learn, however, for civilians there is a lot of knowledge that can be taught.

Airsoft is not just about shooting each other, just as the Army isn't only about killing.

When you take a step back, for Mil-Sims anyway, there is room for many skills to be picked up.

• Navigation
  
• First Aid (The principals at least)
  
• Fitness
  
• Field craft
  
• and so much more
  

Who does not want team mates with those core skills?

When a recruit goes to Catterick, they might as well be a baby, but they are transformed into a competent soldier.

New players are the same, where should they go to learn? Experience is great, but performs best on a foundation of education.

Click to shrink...

BUT what I’d say to negate the points you’ve raised ; Navigation , useful in the real world if you plan on going hill walking but of no use what so ever for Airsoft there arn’t any sites big enough in the UK to warrant it and if you are going to any of the massive ones in Europe then I’d think you’ve already got the know how .

first aid , should only be from an accredited instructor and to be fair all the sites I’ve been too have it covered but you still should have already acquainted your self with self first aid any way . 

Fitness , come on if you can’t sort that your self then your a special kind of fuckwit ?

Field craft , yes I will give you that one is better learned from someone who’s actually done it for real .

To be honest bud the points you’ve raised arn't training skills for squad leaders, those just bog standard military skills .

The squad leader course focuses on mission planning and man management in operational situations , etc nothing you’ve highlighted would be on a SLC .

 

[Seth_Erebor]

The squad leader course focuses on mission planning and man management in operational situations , etc nothing you’ve highlighted would be on a SLC.




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Carry on... 

One thing I'd like to see is limited ammo allowed and having to resupply, anything to make me think and just blast away without a care in the world.

 

[Druid799]

The main site in South Wales (dragon valley) actually has an ammo limit your only allowed 600 bbs AEG or 2000 support weapon on you during the game (most are 30mins long , if longer you can leave extra ammo at your team base) if you need more you have to go back and bomb up at the safezone, certainly changes the game play ! 

 

[Immortal]

If I'm on a GBBR then I run low caps so about 200 rounds does a full day (I pick my shots wisely and burst fire occasionally).

The VSR is about the same for a day (200) - no choice but to pick shots wisely.

First time I ran the ARP (to see how it held up and from not having the option before) I shredded 1500 rounds in half an hour... lol :lol:

AEG AR style; a 1000 will do a day being trigger happy with midcaps (compared to my usual lowcaps).

LMG AEG; unsure how many I put out only having played an hour game with it. Holds 3000! Mwuh-haha-HA-ha!

Pistol; anything from zero to 6 mags depending on game scenarios. Generally 3 is more than enough (20 rounds a pop) on a full day.

You can always limit yourself even if others aren't. I've got just as many scalps, occasionally more, firing a fraction of what my mates are throwing out there. If I do run out of primary ammo then to me it's more realistic and I'll have to carry on with a pistol as long as possible. I never go back to reload until it's over and with the exception of the VSR I don't carry ammo or gas with me (99% of the time).

I prefer the "don't shoot unless I can hit it" rather than give myself away spraying like a drunk virgin in a whore house.