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[Tommikka]

Nobody has answered whether the vax is a cure or if stops virus being transmitted or if my not having it puts anyone at risk.my understanding is that even if you have the vax you can still transmit the virus and can still contract it. 

Public health Scotland has just announced that hospital admissions of people that have had the vax has dropped by 94%.

So thats good if I get i cause I won't be tying a bed up.

But be honest why should I be barred from airsoft site if I've not got vax card.

Regards 

I think someone did say that vaccine is not a cure, but a measure in reducing transmission

If you have never been exposed to a virus then your immune system has to kick in from a standing start to create antibodies, if you have been vaccinated you are one step ahead and your immune system becomes effective quicker.

That may fully prevent you from suffering an illness or it may reduce the impact so you still suffer but at a lesser scale and/or get over it quicker 

By not having the vaccine you aren’t reducing risk - but you may not need to.  With sufficient people immunized  the herd immunity also helps others.

If you are never exposed then it’s irrelevant as to whether you’re immunized or not.  When enough people are immunized the transmission rate reduces, and the virus becomes less efficient at passing itself on - pending variants and how well vaccines cover the variants

The other question is why should an airsoft site allow the risk of non immunized customers?

As a matter of balance it would depend on what other measures they have and the impact on the virus of the scale of vaccination that has taken place 

It's still discrimination on medical/belief grounds.

Regards 

But also may or may not be justifiable 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Theres a difference between medical grounds and personal beleifs for refusing a vaccine, indeed for the former its not a refusal they make themselves.

People who legitimately cant have a vaccine for medical reasons due to a compromised immune system are reliant on the herd immunity of people around them to be safe. They need people to be free of disease, their lives are curtailed in the same way a disability like cerebral palsy curtails your life and means certain jobs will never be viable for you, its a shitty hand to be dealt and thats why disability benefit is a thing.

Refusing based on beleif is choosing to be the part of society that puts the former category at additional risk. And i've yet to hear a convincing reason as to why that should be the case.

Personally i'll take the vaccine as soon as i'm able and the only reason i would refuse is so the dose can go to someone of greater need.

 

[Shamal]

Sunny Sunday morning. People strolling slowly to church.

Man runs past the happy families.

Close on his heels ? is a mob of baseball ️ bat weilding angry folk."He has not been jabbed"they cry. "Stop him"

"Fuck Church" say the happy people,"this is more interesting!"

Sorry but this is what I forsee,although maybe a bit dramatic but in essence true to type.

??

Regards 

 

[Brophy]

The only good thing that's come out of this is during lockdown and restrictions, is that I've had an excuse not to be dragged shopping or visiting the in-laws...

In other news, West Mids Airsoft posted this and it made me happy: https://www.facebook.com/events/2939442569704536/

 

[Lozart]

Yes but by having jabby jab I'm only protecting myself not anyone else. The jab is not a cure or am I missing something?

Regards

Hang on is it not possible to still infect people even if you have been jabbed?

Herd immunity


Having a vaccine also benefits your whole community through "herd immunity".

If enough people are vaccinated, it's harder for the disease to spread to those people who cannot have vaccines. For example, people who are ill or have a weakened immune system.

Information:

Read more about herd immunity and who it protects on the Oxford University Vaccine Knowledge Project website

 

[rj1986]

Yes but by having jabby jab I'm only protecting myself not anyone else. The jab is not a cure or am I missing something?

Latest findings from Israel's data show that the Pfizer cuts transmission by over 90%, and the Oxford/AZ one by two thirds in another study. Both of these are yet to be peer reviewed as far as i know.

In other news, Gyms are opening again soon!! Means i need to get back in shape before i go, much like people tidy up before the cleaner comes over...

 

[MadMole]

It's still discrimination on medical/belief grounds.

Regards 

Discrimination on medical grounds is still perfectly legal in the UK, unless you can drag disability or religion into it and unless youre a Jehova's nut job, no other religion bands vaccinations. In fact the Vatican has made it mandatory for all its staff to be vaccinated (so much for trusting in God for protection)

Schools, nurseies etc are allowed to refuse pupils who haven't had MMR etc

 

[Shamal]

Discrimination on medical grounds is still perfectly legal in the UK

Err don't think so lol

 

[MadMole]

Err don't think so lol

These are the legally protected characteristics under UK law. Medical isn't in there

• age
  
• gender reassignment
  
• being married or in a civil partnership
  
• being pregnant or on maternity leave
  
• disability
  
• race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin
  
• religion or belief
  
• sex
  
• sexual orientation
  

 

[Tackle]

These are the legally protected characteristics under UK law. Medical isn't in there

• age
  
• gender reassignment
  
• being married or in a civil partnership
  
• being pregnant or on maternity leave
  
• disability
  
• race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin
  
• religion or belief
  
• sex
  
• sexual orientation
  

Yep, but when your subject to any of the above & discriminated, try proving it lol

 

[Shamal]

These are the legally protected characteristics under UK law. Medical isn't in there

• age
  
• gender reassignment
  
• being married or in a civil partnership
  
• being pregnant or on maternity leave
  
• disability
  
• race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin
  
• religion or belief
  
• sex
  
• sexual orientation
  

So what is disability if its not medical.

You can't be refused service for not wearing a mask if you are exempt for medical reasons.if you are it's classed as discrimination

 

[Adolf Hamster]

So what is disability if its not medical.

if it sounds bad to discriminate against people for carrying (or in this century potentially carrying/refusing to be immunised against) infectious diseases then my advice- don't look at the history of the human race, because ostracising people who carry infectious disease is something humanity has been doing for as long as it's existed.

besides, businesses can still discriminate (within reason) based on disability if the role in question cannot be adapted to accommodate. for example nobody in a wheelchair is going to be a firefighter, nobody who is registered blind is going to be an airline pilot etc etc.

 

[Shamal]

if it sounds bad to discriminate against people for carrying (or in this century potentially carrying/refusing to be immunised against) infectious diseases then my advice- don't look at the history of the human race, because ostracising people who carry infectious disease is something humanity has been doing for as long as it's existed.

besides, businesses can still discriminate (within reason) based on disability if the role in question cannot be adapted to accommodate. for example nobody in a wheelchair is going to be a firefighter, nobody who is registered blind is going to be an airline pilot etc etc.

Depression, a medical condition which is treated with medicine(drugs),does not preclude you from being afforded the same opportunities as any 'normal' person.

If you are not given same considerations then its discrimination.

Depression, a medical condition which is treated with medicine(drugs),does not preclude you from being afforded the same opportunities as any 'normal' person.

If you are not given same considerations then its discrimination.

But yes a person in a wheelchair is not gonna be a fire fighter but can still work in the fire service

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Depression, a medical condition which is treated with medicine(drugs),does not preclude you from being afforded the same opportunities as any 'normal' person.

If you are not given same considerations then its discrimination.

of course, there are different levels of disability, and many can (with adjustments/medication etc) be rendered inconsequential, hence the legal requirement for an employer to make "reasonable adjustment" (which ranges wildly depending on the specific role and disability involved).

But yes a person in a wheelchair is not gonna be a fire fighter but can still work in the fire service

absolutely, the same way a blind person can work for an airline, just not as a pilot. the point was that certain roles can refuse to employ people with certain disabilities because it's impossible to adjust the role to allow them to do it.

i'm not seeing the paralell with the original conversation though.

 

[Shamal]

of course, there are different levels of disability, and many can (with adjustments/medication etc) be rendered inconsequential, hence the legal requirement for an employer to make "reasonable adjustment" (which ranges wildly depending on the specific role and disability involved).

absolutely, the same way a blind person can work for an airline, just not as a pilot. the point was that certain roles can refuse to employ people with certain disabilities because it's impossible to adjust the role to allow them to do it.

i'm not seeing the paralell with the original conversation though.

No quite agree. Main point has been forgotten and perhaps that's for the good of entant cordial.

I can see all the points you all are throwing at me and I do know that what you are saying makes sense. But I quess I'm an ornery old sod who never goes down without a fight even when I know I'm fighting a loosing battle! Lol.

Been a good debate but now I think I should just lay down and lick my wounds but I won't be taking up a NHS bed while I do lol

And I may very well change my views in the future but it has to be on my terms.?

Regards 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Well suppose was worth a shot, suppose the debate's kept us occupied anyway.

Just wish i had the luxury of predicting when i can go pewing again

 

[Shamal]

Soon, I think, soon.

If not I shall sell up and start doing knitting!

Regards 

 

[Spartan09]

We better be in luck as my garden has more disguarded BBs than a Airsoft field. The missus still thinks we've got snow on the ground.

and i thought MY garden wasbd...   lol

You think that idiot has an actual coherent plan!? ?

he doesnt. hes a prat...    this is the same man that manages to fuck up using a zipline...   so how can anyone trust him to run a country?

Many errors have been made - no doubt about it - but I very much doubt the opposition would have done any better.

maybe, maybe not..  we will never know..  but personally i dont think they could have done much worse

Sadly my crazy elderly battleaxe Grandmother has been very unlucky as shes currently battling the Bristol Covid Variant despite having her first Pfizer vaccine 4 weeks ago. Shes doing... ok. But it's touch and go. We'll know in a few days time. 

I have also been informed that my estranged Father has caught it. Hes an ass, but I wouldn't wish it on him. Mixed emotions. 

sorry to hear that.  hopefully they get better soon

 

options are "who do I pick from this bunch of self serving twats", I've yet to see a politician or party that had the best interests of the population at heart...........?

truer words have never been spoken before

That sounds like airsoft to me! 
 

Especially the ‘children’s sport’ because let’s be honest no one who runs round with a £200 toy can claim to be an adult. 

yes we can, dammit...    wether we can be CALLED adults is a different story though
but we can still claim to be adults XD

 

[Spartan09]

Sunny Sunday morning. People strolling slowly to church.

Man runs past the happy families.

Close on his heels ? is a mob of baseball ️ bat weilding angry folk."He has not been jabbed"they cry. "Stop him"

"Fuck Church" say the happy people,"this is more interesting!"

Sorry but this is what I forsee,although maybe a bit dramatic but in essence true to type.

??

Regards 

sadly, you may not be too far from the truth there
 

 

[MadMole]

So what is disability if its not medical.

You can't be refused service for not wearing a mask if you are exempt for medical reasons.if you are it's classed as discrimination

A disability can be medical agreed, but a medical condition is not automatically a disability and that's where your argument fails

Perfectly legal for a shop to refuse to service anyone they want to as long as it's not on the grounds listed above and a medical condition like asthma is NOT a disability.  Its reasonable for them to not refuse service for non mask wearers if they have a legitimate excuse (and note most of those not wearing masks DO NOT have a legitimate medical excuse other than selfishness). As there is no absolute legal definition of what constitutes a medical reason to not wear a mask (just guidlines) there is lots of room for interpretation. Plenty of shops round here with signs saying no mask, no service for any reason