"R Hops"

[CaptainDumbass]

I hear this term being brought up more and more each time i play at my woodland site. Pretty embarrassing because to this day i still have no idea what one is and how it works.

Would anyone like to explain and tell me if i would benefit in getting one?

Cheers

 

[PT247]

YouTube it, loads of vids on there about it

 

[Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies]

Usually your hop up bucking has a small internal nub that presses down on the BB to create a brake so it spins as it's propelled.

R-Hop,Instead of using the traditional hop up rubber with internal nub, uses a segment of silicone (or some other rubber tubing) that covers the hop up window,pressure is then applied more evenly and for a longer duration to create more spin.

Here's a rough diagram I made in paint to explain. Top is traditional,Bottom is R-hop

View attachment 15273

 

[CaptainDumbass]

Okay i think i get it, thanks guys!

I presume these things just affect back spin//range and dont affect accuracy right?

Im guessing (correct me if im wrong lol) i dont need to get one of these unless im aiming to push my range even further?

 

[jay83]

ive seen them in action and they are amazing, getting 250ft with a 350fps gun

 

[jay83]

yet to do mine as im shit at that stuff so will prob send it off

 

[Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies]

Accuracy upgrades and range upgrades go hand in hand.

Honestly you can get away with using a good bucking a good hop up set up and have good results,R-hop depends a lot on the quality of the install and performance varies with the contact patch material.

G-hop is the earlier concept,It uses a cut up Hop up rubber instead of a different material as a contact patch. Easier to do well IMO since you don't need to shave down and adjust it like the R-Hop patch.

 

[BrightCandle]

My first attempt at R hop didn't go well. It ended up overhopping enormously, so while my range was apparently improved it was also sending the rounds up super high so it really wasn't a fair comparison. I wont be trying out this weekend but I will try it next weekend and see if hopefully the adjusted one is shooting any better. But from what I saw so far it doesn't look like its a massive increase in range.

 

[Esoterick]

My mates bought a TM HK416 and it's being sent off for a load of work including having an R Hop fitted. I'll be interested to see how it performs, the best performing AEG i've seen by far is a Cyma M14 with a tight bore barrel and a TM hop rubber which makes me wonder if it ends up being more luck than anything else. It certainly doesn't help getting a sense for what's what when it's fairly common to see players on forums saying stuff along the lines of "my gun outranges 90% of other players guns" - which is said enough to make it a very large 10%

 

[Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies]

A lot of people are fooled by a placebo effect of mods and optical illusions. It may look like a shot is flying out all the way to 70m but when you look very carefully you can see most shots drop at the 50m mark. Ed explained this fairly well in a vid where it looks like he scored a 60m+ shot but in reality it was about 30. I'll need to fish that vid out.

edit: I think this is it:

 

[BrightCandle]

People use different measures when they talk about range as well. Some of them talk about the effective flat trajectory range (before the BB starts loosing height) and some talk about the point where it hits the ground (having dropped 1.5m or so). These two numbers are very different and the maximum range != effective range. With R hop so far my effective range has dropped, but my maximum range increased. Hopefully the changes I have made should at the very least return my effective range to normal and if it is any more consistent than a G&G green I'll know pretty quickly as I will be testing it in the same place in the same way, I did this because I needed to see for myself if it was a lie, as the claim is that it gets further range due to the fact it spins the BB more naturally and I had to test it. I suspect ATP is 100% right and that it makes no real range difference but that it does perhaps improve consistency which will improve accuracy. I will have a look at it at Billericay next week and I will report back on my findings, positive or not.

 

[Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies]

People use different measures when they talk about range as well. Some of them talk about the effective flat trajectory range (before the BB starts loosing height) and some talk about the point where it hits the ground (having dropped 1.5m or so). These two numbers are very different and the maximum range != effective range. With R hop so far my effective range has dropped, but my maximum range increased. Hopefully the changes I have made should at the very least return my effective range to normal and if it is any more consistent than a G&G green I'll know pretty quickly as I will be testing it in the same place in the same way, I did this because I needed to see for myself if it was a lie, as the claim is that it gets further range due to the fact it spins the BB more naturally and I had to test it. I suspect ATP is 100% right and that it makes no real range difference but that it does perhaps improve consistency which will improve accuracy. I will have a look at it at Billericay next week and I will report back on my findings, positive or not.

Wow,your guns still having issues? Must be a fairly bad lemon from G&G. I have not been active for some time so I may have missed a thread but have you tried delving in to the gearbox and checking compression issue or disabling blowback?

R-hop can be picky to work with since you need to do a lot of modding on the patches,Z-kit make it a bit easier. I hear from some people that an M-nub is also a required mod but I assume you have that already.

Anyway,It would be nice to hear a detailed report back since I hear nothing but good things about R-hop on american forums i used to frequent,and I kind of began to think it was snake oil. I still need to experiment with G-hop myself but right now I have the VSR shooting way to good with the Pdi w hold and do not want to mess anything up.

 

[BrightCandle]

Wow,your guns still having issues? Must be a fairly bad lemon from G&G. I have not been active for some time so I may have missed a thread but have you tried delving in to the gearbox and checking compression issue or disabling blowback?

R-hop can be picky to work with since you need to do a lot of modding on the patches,Z-kit make it a bit easier. I hear from some people that an M-nub is also a required mod but I assume you have that already.

Anyway,It would be nice to hear a detailed report back since I hear nothing but good things about R-hop on american forums i used to frequent,and I kind of began to think it was snake oil. I still need to experiment with G-hop myself but right now I have the VSR shooting way to good with the Pdi w hold and do not want to mess anything up.

This is for my Tar 21. I have basically left the G&G T4-18 to be a CQB gun although I need to gear it up for okto in a months time. I have mainly been working on the Tar 21, replaced the motor, the piston and head, the cylinder head, the nozzle. That fixed the airseal and the trigger pull but then I saw how inaccurate the hop was being applied, a G&G green bucking helped but not enough so I started a Z kit R hop into it using an M nub. My first attempt didn't go so well with the overhopping but it was partly the bucking and partly the hop patch, I hadn't quite got it sanding enough. That is now fixed so the issue was entirely my own.

This is what I know about R hop so far (at 350fps):

- My previous hop unit with a G&G green could lift .25g BBs fine, but not a .28g devil, whereas the G&G T4-18 could lift the .28g's OK (so its the hop unit not the rubber).

- The rhop was overhopping a .28g devil impressively, I have bought some 0.3 and 0.32's to test with that as well as I basically need to choose the ammo on the basis of the lift because you can't really change the lift it gives much.

So its better than how the gun came before, and it can apply more backspin than a G&G green bucking, even in the G&Gs decent hop chamber.

What I saw at UCAP was about 20m more maximum range with 0.25g BBs and maybe a little more than that with the 0.28g BBs. But neither was really usable due to overhop and ATPs numbers suggest this are right where I would expect with overhop. So my prediction from where I am is that it will fix my hop inconsistency due to the rubbish plastic hop unit that is in my S&T Tar 21 pro, but it doesn't look like its amazingly going to increase range and certainly not out to 90m as some people are saying it does. But the overhop had my FPS swinging like 10 fps so I can't really predict much from a badly installed R hop.

Edit: I should also mention it took a lot longer than the "10 minutes" suggested on the guides to this even though I bought all the right bits and pieces (including RTV for the glue between patch and barrel). The main reason it took longer was because I needed the middle patch and it had a reasonable gap to the edges and it needed a lot of sanding. With 400 grit sandpaper I think it took about 2 hours of sanding to get the patch down to the barrel. Its partly due to the fine sandpaper but mostly due to the fact that the patch isn't really held in place strongly enough for sandpaper to run over it in an arch. So I had to go back and forth slowly and softly so as not to detach the patch. In the end the first time I called it "good enough" and it ended up overhopping. Now its actually flush but it was another 1 hour of sanding to get it there. I can't say it was quick or painless (I ended up sanding my own fingers a lot holding the patch in place) and the RTV did not say liquid long enough to finish the process so that was a waste of time as I ended up sticking it with superglue (still not strong enough to sand away without concern).

So all in all I have found the process of installing it a bit frustrating. The larger patch was just slightly too tall so I couldn't use it but the medium patch was a bit off. I would have probably been better off with the tall patch and sanding the legs to bring it down rather than what I did. So just be aware of this if you do it to an odd barrel (S&T in this case) like I did.

I also lapped the inside of the barrel and its very smooth and shiny now. I will be seeing the impact of both of these things done together rather than individually, but at least at home against paper at 10m lapping looks like its worth it. My grouping of 1.5 inches looks to be "same hole" on 10 shots (but with fliers due to the overhop) so maybe its 1cm now. I do feel like I am making process making the gun shoot well, the airseal definitely helped no doubt about it I can recommend fixing bad airseal. R hop and lapping not sure on yet.

 

[BrightCandle]

I didn't manage to get out this weekend to test it unfortunately. I will aim to do so next weekend however, rain or shine.

 

[BrightCandle]

I finally got out to play with the r hop today. Its still pulling high and its also now got a left pull as well. But with 0.28g it's usable. I was outranging people, maybe as much as 10 metres but I didn't find it to be more accurate or particularly longer range.

So since I have okto coming up I will remove the r hop, install a basic bucking again. There is some hope it might be a little better from what I saw today but it's taking a lot of trial and error to get it working right. Really I need to get out in a field with a reasonable workbench so I can tweak it, but without such access I am struggling to get it working right. Its not just do and play like the z kit suggests.

 

[BrightCandle]

Today I went to a site and didn't play. I went their with the goal ofyay or naying the r hop and spending the to.e to dial it in. I finally got it working as its meant to.

So how does it perform? 60m effective range. Its incredible. No doubt it's worth doing.

So a few things I think people need to know:

- this is hours of sanding. You need somewhere to see the effect as it pulls sideway. It needs tweaking even with a z kit method.

- heavier BBS are q must. Minimum for mine is 0.28g, but 0.30g is better and 0.32g better again. But my.mag magazines won't lift even 0.28g reliably.

- its an odd hop effect. It looks more continuous like it starts as it leaves the barrel and just carries on. It has a very straight flight path compared to a normal bucking approach.

If you are considering this do it but expect to spend 4 hours on a site dialing it in.