Met Police Don't Seem to Know What a Two Tone Is.

[DrAlexanderTobacco]

The 12 year old is not the same as you see in the photos, those are the pictures chosen by family to make him appear as angelic as possible, whenever you hear aspiring artist, architect, footballer or rapper killed (often sadly in some kind of gang feud) then look through that, bet if you were to see their previous it might make you think twice.

I pretty much agree with most of your post, save for this bit - really unfair. You're right, people will select photos to display the best possible angle for their side of the story (Or, indeed, just to make their child look nice as parents are wont to do). But to imply that this kid is absolutely a wrongun is indefensible. So far all I've seen of the objective facts - Child, (R)IF, accidental display via private property, there's nothing to imply the kid's involved in anything other than a stupid mistake thus far.

 

[Shizbazki]

I pretty much agree with most of your post, save for this bit - really unfair. You're right, people will select photos to display the best possible angle for their side of the story (Or, indeed, just to make their child look nice as parents are wont to do). But to imply that this kid is absolutely a wrongun is indefensible. So far all I've seen of the objective facts - Child, (R)IF, accidental display via private property, there's nothing to imply the kid's involved in anything other than a stupid mistake thus far.

I didn't mean this kid specifically, i was generalising across the board, sorry if it came across wrong, like i said at the top, bit of a rant, maybe i should have separated those two sentences to imply that they were not connected.

In "general", if you hear about a young lad who has died as a result of stabbing, shooting etc and they use those particular aspiring roles (often the chosen ones are artist, architect, footballer or rapper). More often than not, look into their backgrounds.

Case in point was Jaiden Moodie, painted as a young angelic 14 year old lad who was brutally murdered in London. WHO was also a drug dealer and drug runner for a notorious London Gang.

Yes, young Kai made a stupid mistake don't get me wrong, but i still think that the way police handled it was very good and would fully expect the same to happen to me had i been waving a gun around my front window.

 

[Tackle]

I remember the jaiden moodie case, everyone coming out of the woodwork for their 5 minutes of fame exclaiming "what a good boy he was", all I could think was "why was a 14yo illegally riding a ped, what else was he up to ?", & obviously a lot more came to light.

 

[Sneaky]

This is what bothered me about the whole thing. I’m black and when I was this on the news I was instantly cheesed off as to how this was portrayed. I felt the news focussed on the fact that they were black and not really focussed on the gun. I totally agree with the police response, as how are they supposed to know if it is a fire arm or a RIF.  The mother said that they should knock on the door to ask if it was real or not - come on, what madness is this! If I did something like that, brandishing one of my RIF’s in the front window, I would expect some kind of police response at that level.  My neighbours fully know what I do.

On this occasion I believe the police did was correct.

Rant  over, stay safe everyone. 

 

[Albiscuit]

In "general", if you hear about a young lad who has died as a result of stabbing, shooting etc and they use those particular aspiring roles (often the chosen ones are artist, architect, footballer or rapper). More often than not, look into their backgrounds.

Case in point was Jaiden Moodie, painted as a young angelic 14 year old lad who was brutally murdered in London. WHO was also a drug dealer and drug runner for a notorious London Gang.

Yes, young Kai made a stupid mistake don't get me wrong, but i still think that the way police handled it was very good and would fully expect the same to happen to me had i been waving a gun around my front window.

TOTALLY agree.

I wont go into details as identities can be found out but in my role as a youth worker I know if quite a few young people who have been killed. One recently was shot a number of times. Now I see the tributes on social media and the shrines which pop up and parents claiming 'he was a lovely boy' 'it was wrong place wrong time' or 'mistaken identity' and your right they always choose a smiling picture of them with the family, usually in their Sunday best (Kais pic looked like him and mum just came back from church tbf) and I can see right through it most of the time.

The family of the latest lad to be killed claims it was a case 'mistaken identity' but they leave out of the media report he was a knife carrying drug dealer who robbed people. Now dont get me wrong, its sad any life is taken and he didnt deserve to be killed but he was no way an innocent civilian in the local gang war. It was a targeted hit. In my professional role I have to bite my tongue so so much when I see and hear these things. 

I have seen it with at least 4 kids who have been killed around my way. Its terribly sad but these are the kids who are clearly in the criminal life and get in over their head.

Like you say though its not EVERYONE, I know of a kid who WAS killed locally in a robbery not a target or a result of drugs or a silly beef, but in general the families will choose their pictures carefully and not say or know about the darker side to their kids life.

Bloody sad as I write this thinking about all the dead kids and other victims I know  

 

[Rogerborg]

Now someone mentioned the "W" word or warrant.

Guilty as charged.  I didn't expect they had got one given the swiftness of the response and the lack of night courts (I'd love to see drunks dragged before Magistrates at 2am while they're still kicking off), it's just an interest in what was on the 5x5x5.

I'm not going to read it out here but please look up Section 17 PACE 1984

Safely archived up here.

The 12 year old is not the same as you see in the photos

May not be.  But yes, in general the images used are "most angelic", not "most recent".

Yes officers forced entry into the home

Depends on the definition of force. it seems that they knocked and the lad opened the door.

Everyone was detained and led away from the address with the 12 year old boy cuffed (probably at the rear)

That's the only part that I have an issue with, after they'd searched him - it seems that he was left cuffed for the duration of searching the house.  I know why they did it, and why they want to - officer safety.  It's a concerning trend though: see, for example, the Bianca Williams / Ricardo dos Santos case where they were also cuffed despite not being arrested, or charged with the multiple alleged offences that were claimed as the cause for the stop-and-search.

the body worn video has been viewed by a senior officer who is the lead in policing firearms  and stated that he viewed the body worn footage and saw that the officer behaved properly, professionally and conducted everything as per their training

Eh, the sun rose in the East. That's what they said in the Bianca Williams case, before reversing course and issuing an apology for... uh... conducting everything as per their training.

I should stress that I do mostly agree with you and think that they had to act.  I'm just not a big fan of routine cuffing though, as it fundamentally changes the nature of the relationship between the police and the public - I'm not sure Bobby Peel would be mad keen on it.

I remember the jaiden moodie case, everyone coming out of the woodwork for their 5 minutes of fame exclaiming "what a good boy he was", all I could think was "why was a 14yo illegally riding a ped, what else was he up to ?", & obviously a lot more came to light.

My initial response to that was "That's dreadful, I hope that poor scooter wasn't too badly damaged and that it got back to its real owner", and nothing that emerged afterwards gave me any cause to regret that knee jerk.

 

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

My initial response to that was "That's dreadful, I hope that poor scooter wasn't too badly damaged and that it got back to its real owner", and nothing that emerged afterwards gave me any cause to regret that knee jerk.

 

[Rogerborg]

#BikeLivesMatter, chap.

 

[Albiscuit]

Was a very sad case but my reaction was similar. My very first thought was if he was 14 why was he on a moped? it wasn't his, he couldn't have had it legally so why was he on one.

I know loads of kids 'with' mopeds and I always say the same. I work with mostly low income families and when I see their 15/16 year old son on one its always my first question, as usually the answer is drug money. Either bought illegally with drug money, or its nicked/passed around so they can do ride outs or deliver drugs. Therefore they are generally in that 'life' and more often than not involved in suffering in some way. Not that they deserve death, but claiming innocence when you move in those circles is just silly. If you sell drugs, rob people, hang with people who stab others or are involved in a gang then that's the expectation and I have little empathy in these circumstances. Which is shocking considering my job ?

Same when they have fatal crashes in cop chases, if they were that innocent why didnt they stop? I am not saying cops should run them off the road (thats another debate) but if they would have stopped then they would be alive.

 

[Rogerborg]

My very first thought was if he was 14 why was he on a moped?

He was on a scooter, almost certainly stolen, possibly a 300cc+ plated as a 125, or just flat out fake or foreign plated.  The words "his" and "moped" set me off, we know exactly how he got it, and what he was using it for.

In this case, well, Kai's mum thinks that's a "toy" gun.  That's what I call mine too, but with the full knowledge that they're not treated as firearms (imitation or otherwise) only by a quirk of legislation.

All that said, I'm drawing a clear distinction between a drug dealer riding a stolen scooter without license or insurance, and a kid with a legally held (and hopefully legally obtained) airsoft (R)IF.   I very much hope that young Kai there isn't heading down the same route as Jaden and so many others, and until he does, I'll happily side with his right to own that, uh, toy.

I am not saying cops should run them off the road (thats another debate)

I'm a biker and I say they should run them off the road, then bill their families for the damage to the cop car, then prosecute them for aiding an offender.  "Dunno how he got it, just kids larking about, innit" shouldn't be an excuse.

 

[Tackle]

I'm a biker and I say they should run them off the road, then bill their families for the damage to the cop car, then prosecute them for aiding an offender.  "Dunno how he got it, just kids larking about, innit" shouldn't be an excuse.

Me too, & last time I rode up to London on it I dumped my kit in my dad's & walked to the corner shop 2 mins away, as I walked back I turn the corner only to see 4 "lads" (bless 'em?) on 2 Peds trying to get my chains off, I'd been there less than 20 mins FFS.

Time before that 2 massive west Indians tried (unsuccessfully) to intimidate me in to handing over cash as I walked out of a Chinese with dinner for dad & I, on that occasion I'd been in town about 90 mins.

Thing is I'm 6.2 & 17+ stone, & look like a bulldog chewing a wasp lol,  so not a "typical" target or soft touch, yet it got to the point where I'd often be tooled up, such is the level of crime round there (Islington/hackney).

 

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

Me too, & last time I rode up to London on it I dumped my kit in my dad's & walked to the corner shop 2 mins away, as I walked back I turn the corner only to see 4 "lads" (bless 'em?) on 2 Peds trying to get my chains off, I'd been there less than 20 mins FFS.

Time before that 2 massive west Indians tried (unsuccessfully) to intimidate me in to handing over cash as I walked out of a Chinese with dinner for dad & I, on that occasion I'd been in town about 90 mins.

Thing is I'm 6.2 & 17+ stone, & look like a bulldog chewing a wasp lol,  so not a "typical" target or soft touch, yet it got to the point where I'd often be tooled up, such is the level of crime round there (Islington/hackney).

I live a stones throw away from "Hackney" (which whilst it has its areas of deprivation, is a pretty "hipster"/ trendy/ posh area) I'm one inch shorter and a few stone lighter then you (not for me to say if im lighter in a good way or a bad way)  edit: yes i can thats proper obese lmao

. I've never had an issue at all, maybe you just look like more of a target then you think you do? 

Also carrying a "tool" around is just absolutely mental behaviour and is exactly the sort of thing that may get you in fatal trouble with the police or someone else. I saw someone try to steal my bike and we kinda scared him off. but not for a second did i think about arming myself nor did i want to physically hurt him. I didn't want my bike knicked either but guess what - i just don't care enough about a bicycle to (try to) hurt someone. 

This entire thread is totally, utterly nuts. 

 

[DrAlexanderTobacco]

Thing is I'm 6.2 & 17+ stone, & look like a bulldog chewing a wasp lol,  so not a "typical" target or soft touch, yet it got to the point where I'd often be tooled up, such is the level of crime round there (Islington/hackney).

Damn, a good stop-and-search candidate then. Carrying a knife for self defense is explicitly not OK, and that sort of mentality is what's fuelling knife crime in London right now.

E: Sorry if that came across as blunt, but you should really really consider not going "tooled up" in London ever again for soooo many reasons. If you get attacked and defend yourself with that knife, killing someone, you are getting prosecuted for murder regardless of the legitimate threat on your life. If you have to use it, you're probably going to get stabbed yourself. Knife fight losers die in the street, winners die in the ambulance.

 

[Tackle]

Who mentioned a knife ? , not me, in much the same way I never mentioned a bicycle, let's not make assumptions now chaps ?

I live a stones throw away from "Hackney" (which whilst it has its areas of deprivation, is a pretty "hipster"/ trendy/ posh area) I'm one inch shorter and a few stone lighter then you (not for me to say if im lighter in a good way or a bad way)  edit: yes i can thats proper obese lmao

. I've never had an issue at all, maybe you just look like more of a target then you think you do? 

Also carrying a "tool" around is just absolutely mental behaviour and is exactly the sort of thing that may get you in fatal trouble with the police or someone else. I saw someone try to steal my bike and we kinda scared him off. but not for a second did i think about arming myself nor did i want to physically hurt him. I didn't want my bike knicked either but guess what - i just don't care enough about a bicycle to (try to) hurt someone. 

This entire thread is totally, utterly nuts. 

Damn, a good stop-and-search candidate then. Carrying a knife for self defense is explicitly not OK, and that sort of mentality is what's fuelling knife crime in London right now.

E: Sorry if that came across as blunt, but you should really really consider not going "tooled up" in London ever again for soooo many reasons. If you get attacked and defend yourself with that knife, killing someone, you are getting prosecuted for murder regardless of the legitimate threat on your life. If you have to use it, you're probably going to get stabbed yourself. Knife fight losers die in the street, winners die in the ambulance.

No, what's fueling knife crime in London, & most other cities, are thieving low life scrotes who aren't prepared to work for something, they'd rather take somebody else's hard earned, & fuck the consequences/victims.

 

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

Who mentioned a knife ? , not me, in much the same way I never mentioned a bicycle, let's not make assumptions now chaps ?

I'm struggling to see what point you are trying to make other then you are obese and get mugged every time you step foot in london? 

 

[Tackle]

I'm struggling to see what point you are trying to make other then you are obese and get mugged every time you step foot in london? 

Fuck you, you cheeky cnut, come up to me on a gameday & tell me I'm obese, see how that works out for you ?

& no, I wasn't mugged, as I explained, on both occasions they were unsuccessful, merely because i refuse to be a victim & do nothing, I leave that to liberal hipsters etc.

the point I was making was that crime is rife & anybody can be a target, I'm not a country bumpkin, I grew up there but chose to move to greener pastures for my family.

 

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

Fuck you, you cheeky cnut, come up to me on a gameday & tell me I'm obese, see how that works out for you ?

& no, I wasn't mugged, as I explained, on both occasions they were unsuccessful, merely because i refuse to be a victim & do nothing, I leave that to liberal hipsters etc.

the point I was making was that crime is rife & anybody can be a target, I'm not a country bumpkin, I grew up there but chose to move to greener pastures for my family.

I have absolutely no interest getting into (presumably?) violent confrontations whether its about my bike getting knicked or because i've upset someone with a comment about their weight! Life is too short for this bullshit, i sincerely suggest you enjoy the greener pastures. 

 

[Tackle]

I have absolutely no interest getting into (presumably?) violent confrontations whether its about my bike getting knicked or because i've upset someone with a comment about their weight! Life is too short for this bullshit, i sincerely suggest you enjoy the greener pastures. 

I'm sure you don't, I'm not particularly looking for a scrap but if you rattle my chain I will bite, so maybe in future you should consider how you word your posts, yours was neither funny or correct.

I'm all for a bit of banter but we are discussing crime, it's prevalence & the lawful (& sometimes unlawful) response it solicits.

 

[FreeFrag.UK]

I'm a biker and I say they should run them off the road, then bill their families for the damage to the cop car, then prosecute them for aiding an offender.  "Dunno how he got it, just kids larking about, innit" shouldn't be an excuse.

Being a biker myself I can't help but echo this statement.

I think we can all agree that there are numerous parts of the UK where crime is an increasing issue which has been fuelled, in no small part, by police cuts.

One of the follow ups I've seen reported about this particular incident is from an official, flatly stating the situation is being blown out of proportion and made significantly worse by the mother's attempts at claiming that this was all racially motivated. Sadly this is yet another case where the victim card will be played to its fullest in the hope of a hand out. Dread the thought of someone actually accepting responsibility.

 

[Rogerborg]

If you get attacked and defend yourself with that knife, killing someone, you are getting prosecuted for murder regardless of the legitimate threat on your life

If an armed police officer is attacked and kills the attacker, are they prosecuted for murder regardless of the threat to their (or other people's lives)?  The specific intent of a firearm is to take lives.

Police have no particular powers or protections for taking a life, any more than any other citizen does under the same circumstances.  They just happen to be allowed to go well equipped to do so.  In a case of self defence (or defence of another), the legality of the tool being carried may be an aggravating factor, but it doesn't show pre-meditated intent to kill that person.

I agree that law abiding citizens shouldn't have to go armed, but we live in the world that is, not the world that should be.  As this thread reminds us, we live in a world where 12 years olds are habitually used as mules for drugs, cash and weapons.

On George's point, good job on not being mugged yet, I guess.  Please let us know when that changes, and we can mock you for looking like a soft pansy, as apparently that's constructive and helpful.